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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    TN+Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubousensei View Post
    Figured out what I was talking about earlier in the thread. The article I was talking about was this Ten Ton Hammer interview but it was missing one vital piece of information. The trait tree image there is lacking one word that can be seen in Turbine's own preview: specialization, which is the name of the narrow bar to the left. As far as I can infer from those images, it also advances as you buy into the tree. The skill division talked about in the dev diary most likely means about skills that are in the trees, and skills that are in this specialization progress bar.
    Yeah, and I don't know what Temrhyn want to find in these images of the trait trees referring to the attributes or skills.

    None of them has a name below the attribute and all attributes of a skill share the same image...

    So general information you CAN get from this picture. But detailed information for a class, not, because they don't show any tooltips of the attributes...

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Kortaan View Post
    Even though the way we build characters is probably going to be changed a lot, I don't think the devs want the gameplay of the class to change majorly this time around.
    You have no idea what's about to hit you.
    Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
    [url]http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com[/url]

  3. #53
    "deadly storm has a passive that says every time they are hit they gain a stack of Born for Combat. At ten stacks, they gain an Area Effect skill that deals heavy damage to all enemies around them. This means the more people that are hitting the champion, the more damage they output through this passive."



    The champ should gain the passive for how many targets he hits, not how many targets hit him. The most typical case is the tank is holding agro while champ is going aoe crazy, but in that case the champ is not receiving the hits.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/02204000000051f86/01003/signature.png]Elo[/charsig]
    [I][COLOR=green]'I have come,' he said. 'But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!'[/COLOR][/I] Frodo, turning to the dark side

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    173
    Quote Originally Posted by toadriver View Post
    "deadly storm has a passive that says every time they are hit they gain a stack of Born for Combat. At ten stacks, they gain an Area Effect skill that deals heavy damage to all enemies around them. This means the more people that are hitting the champion, the more damage they output through this passive."

    The champ should gain the passive for how many targets he hits, not how many targets hit him. The most typical case is the tank is holding agro while champ is going aoe crazy, but in that case the champ is not receiving the hits.
    This ^^ and the captain skill/passive/whatever that while in tank mode will give incoming healing to the rest of the fellowship, are just very frightening design choices to me. They show that something is very wrong in the design process and the basic concepts of tank/heal/dps...
    Arequain [B]Belechael[/B], Legate of Celosien, Minas Brethil, Lebennin

  5. #55

    Unhappy

    This diary cripples the concept of a grouped champ....as we know it today. Same as the one for the captain did. Huge changes to classes we have known for a long time. Basically a new game really....

    Not thrilled but we shall see how this turns out I guess.
    Holding on by the last hair on the dwarfs beard.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    You have no idea what's about to hit you.
    Surely Champions aren't going to be throwing their swords..........are they?
    Characters: Tindillin (100 Rank 7 Rune-keeper), Arnillion (95 Rank 4 Hunter) on Evernight

  7. #57
    As far as I can see it, all of the classes lose their ability to do different things at once in favour of boosts to special abilities. At last you wont hear somone complain to the DPS champ, WHY did you not take aggro from the mini etc, because he cant anymore. While the difference between a good champ and any other champ was, that he coud change the stance and gear according to the situation, now it will be gear? to be honest, I am less than thrilled about the upcoming changes so far.

    I will give HD a try and I woud very much like to look forward to the changes, but right now I cant.
    lvl 85 lm (main), lvl 85 champ, lvl 85 rk, lvl 85 hunter, lvl 85 minni

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,332
    my only concern lies in exactly how much hybridization we're allowed and whether or not the skill roof for the champion is being drastically lowered here or not. If we're being relegated to a 3 skill dps rotation with an occasional battle frenzy here, flurry there sort of skillset it will be a major bummer.

    however, I mirror the sentiment of others saying that this diary is drastically underwhelming to say the least.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  9. #59
    This update seem pretty good !!!! I play my champion in five color trait + the unblocked legendary trait and i enjoy it !!!

    Parry and dodge in fervour......powerfull !!!!

    I want to try it......november 18H.......so lonnnng
    Last edited by Papou_sous_la_montagne; Sep 16 2013 at 02:35 AM.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kortaan View Post
    Surely Champions aren't going to be throwing their swords..........are they?
    We have throwing weapon..... axe low level :/

    I hope one day turbine will give us the possibility to craft HL throwing axe...

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    You have no idea what's about to hit you.
    where do i sign? :P

  12. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by MithrielWielder View Post
    Can no longer change stances in combat.

    Can't pick up the slack when tank goes down. Can't go off tank for trash then dps for boss. Must visit bard to change stances. Kind of like when they took the shield away, except worse.
    What about get good healers to not let the tanks die? That would resolve everything you said
    PS: You can retrait like warsteed, you'll not need a bard


    Quote Originally Posted by MithrielWielder View Post
    Strategy, skill and diversity diminished, maintenance time increased.

    Class becomes either unplayable or unfun. Back in the closet.
    dps/tank/heal through 6 mobs on level and finish full morale is playable, full and skillful. Just do one role per time, increasing your abillity cause you'll JUST tank/heal or dps without the 'hey, i dont want to die now" skills (bubbles, dire need, etc) available for every way you trait is unplayable, unful and dimished the strategy? I see....

  13. #63
    I've been playing the same champion on the same server since day one (actually before, since beta/preorders got early access). I've seen a lot of ups and downs with the class. I've seen the sky fall numerous times, but managed to keep going, adapting to the new changes, ect. I am hopefully optimistic about these changes, because I have to trust that the devs won't screw up classes that some of us have been playing for five years. That being said, the last time I sat through major changes to the way a game was played was the NGE for SWG, and we all know how that turned out. So while these changes do signal the end of the world as we know it, I can only hope that beta feedback, coupled with (let's be honest) post launch patches, will do whatever the devs were hoping to accomplish, while keeping the class recognizable and playable for all of us. I guess we'll have to see...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000000a1c8/01008/signature.png]Balariond[/charsig]

  14. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by dermax View Post
    I am hopefully optimistic about these changes, because I have to trust that the devs won't screw up classes that some of us have been playing for five years. That being said, the last time I sat through major changes to the way a game was played was the NGE for SWG, and we all know how that turned out. So while these changes do signal the end of the world as we know it, I can only hope that beta feedback, coupled with (let's be honest) post launch patches, will do whatever the devs were hoping to accomplish, while keeping the class recognizable and playable for all of us. I guess we'll have to see...
    I'm not worried so much. I'm sure the Player's Council is on top of it.
    Adaaon (Minstrel), Gwydionn (Hunter), Tarrann (Burglar)
    [url]http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com[/url]

  15. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by fusei View Post
    2. Where is shing-shing? In the yellow line I guess, but how deep
    Man do I love that skill

    So far I like pretty much all I've read on the champ. But the real test will be when we get our hands on
    the new skill system. All of this to me is dependant on how hard it will be to make hybrids.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Central Victoria, Australia
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    1,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Snabur View Post
    What about get good healers to not let the tanks die? That would resolve everything you said
    PS: You can retrait like warsteed, you'll not need a bard




    .
    You can retrait after the wipe, when you are out of combat without leaving the instance, but this seems redundant to me.

    If you cannot retrait in combat, you can't' chank' if tank or minstrel go link dead/die/get multiple stuns/lose agro, etc. etc. in mid fight.

    And you still have to decide on a build before the fight starts-just like now.

    And the minstrel sang to them……”and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness.”

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Temrhyn View Post
    .)

    I am, however, grateful for the bit of news that they won't be associating any of the lines with a weapon type (2 hander vs dual wield) and are leaving that choice up to the players.
    The choice is left up to the players? well actually it's not... at least not for min-maxer/hardcore-raiders. Right now dualwield >> 2h because of the hythbold 2 piece berserker bonus which enables WA -> RS spam. On top of that are your attacks faster and you use WA more often and thus have a higher chance to get that nice +5% crit chance.
    => dualwield > 2h. (even if new sets dont serve with this bonus, the point of a fix duration of that crit-buff remains. maybe wouldnt be that of an issue of it would last ... say somewhat between 6-7 (or even 8) secs if you are wielding a 2h weapon).

    Before RoR 2h were slightly on top in doing singletarget DPS --> the ones who want to play at 98% just because the prefer dualwield over 2h switched to 2h.
    again: no real choice.

    if you are giving the blue line a shot while chanking: dualwield is the way to go as you get more WA off (maybe it's just me, but i think i have read that somewhere before... damn those déjà vus). Therefore more threat generation and less CD on that bubble (as well as more defensive stat bonuses on the offhand weapon)
    => dualwield > 2h

    Last but not least: Even in the yellow traitline has dualwield the edge over 2h (no source atm, but i think the last time i followed this endless disscussion the general consensus was that dualwield is better due to the fact that it has more hits per skill or something... not sure about that one, correct me if I am wrong)

    Sooo .... the situation is as following:
    NOW:
    You choose wether you want to tank, to do singletarget DPS or AoE DPS
    Then you realize: it doesnt matter what you wanna do as in all of the three cases dualwield is the way to go
    At the moment there is no real choice involved
    possibly this will/wont change with the new trees, no clue about it (already waiting for open beta ...)

    If there was a tree for dualwield, one for two-handers and one for tanking (dont really care about weapon choice in this case tbh) you could do everything in any setup (provided that the trees are properly build)
    The red and yellow tree would each have a "subtree" or "subpath" (similiar to the offensive mastery tree in league of legends where you have a trait path for either magical or physical damage, just as a comparison) for singletarget and aoe DPS. Therefore you aren't "forced" to trait one way by the choice of weapon (at least not more as you are forced now to trait blue if you wanna tank). This way you could individually buff certain skills in certain setups to balance them out.

    I guess this disscussion is a dead end nonetheless as the trees without distinction of weapon type are already carved in stone...

  18. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by toadriver View Post
    "deadly storm has a passive that says every time they are hit they gain a stack of Born for Combat. At ten stacks, they gain an Area Effect skill that deals heavy damage to all enemies around them. This means the more people that are hitting the champion, the more damage they output through this passive."



    The champ should gain the passive for how many targets he hits, not how many targets hit him. The most typical case is the tank is holding agro while champ is going aoe crazy, but in that case the champ is not receiving the hits.
    that was my exact thought. it just makes no sense the way they want that to work.

    overall I guess it's not as terrible as I thought, some positive things could come out of this. But here are some other concerns I have:

    removing stances - it was nice, on occasion, to swap from fervour to glory stance if I found I was taking a beating. well I guess now that they removed the parry/evade penalty when traiting the berserker tree line, that may not be an issue BUT I just feel that will now be to OP. lately I've been using ardour (after much encouragement from my kin) and it was nice to have a bit of survivability while doing crazy aoe which actually felt like ardour had a purpose. guess I'll have to wait and see how this plays outs
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/01203000000164a87/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  19. #69
    sorry double post
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/01203000000164a87/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    6 Long street, Blinslade, Bree-land Homesteads
    Posts
    10

    Fear of the unKnown

    I have been playing a Champion almost exclusively for two and a half years, I love the Champion class because of its versatility.

    The Champion is not the "Best" tank or the "best" single target DPSer however its the Champions ability to QUICKLY and EFFECTIVELY change roles on the fly to support what ever situation, that makes the Champion the Best.

    From my perspective that is the Champions bread and butter.

    I fear waiting to change the trait trees and access certain abilities until after the fight will strip the Champion of its usefulness in a group setting, and make it far less enjoyable to play.


    I hope my fears are unfounded and that I need not worry myself over the new Expansion.
    Last edited by mordridcain; Sep 20 2013 at 10:54 AM.
    In the business of providing my foes with a quick death!

  21. #71
    Second Wind "has NOT been revamped to consume all fervour on the champion and instantly give the champion power back based on the number of fervour pips consumed."

    Tpyo!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c2140000000105d2/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  22. #72
    i like the second wind skill, and i adore dire need and sudden defence. please don't tell me i will have to be only martial champion to use them? or at least that i can trait both martial abd beresker to have this skills but be a beresker strong? also, somethings like making swift strike aoe and reducing frevour cost of few good attacks was awesome from the deadly storm traits. i hope i'll be able to use it.
    and last thing, i was using A LOT the class legendary trait attacks- freacious strikes or something and the aoe one. the strikes is super strong and the aoe one is satisfying to use, idk why. i hope we'll still have them? so, my greatest hope is that we will still have dire need and freacious strikes. really hope.

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Snabur View Post
    dps/tank/heal through 6 mobs on level and finish full morale is playable
    With some solo gear, even 25 mobs or more, like wardens.
    Last edited by Castorix; Sep 23 2013 at 06:49 AM.

  24. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by ParrotGuy View Post
    i like the second wind skill, and i adore dire need and sudden defence. please don't tell me i will have to be only martial champion to use them? or at least that i can trait both martial abd beresker to have this skills but be a beresker strong? also, somethings like making swift strike aoe and reducing frevour cost of few good attacks was awesome from the deadly storm traits. i hope i'll be able to use it.
    and last thing, i was using A LOT the class legendary trait attacks- freacious strikes or something and the aoe one. the strikes is super strong and the aoe one is satisfying to use, idk why. i hope we'll still have them? so, my greatest hope is that we will still have dire need and freacious strikes. really hope.
    I agree, the ability of a champ to use survival CDs is one of the the things that allow champs to be functional as DPS in several situations. Without survival skills AOE and regional debuffs will leave the Champion far behind ranged dps alternatives for a lot of content, but having survival skills allows us to take some hits without putting too much pressure on healers.

  25. #75
    all i want is for champs to get 1 or 2 more ranged attacks cause let fly isnt cutting it anymore
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c000000173a44/signature.png]Aregos[/charsig]

 

 
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