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  1. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post
    What are you talking about? It's kind of hard to understand.

    Some long-time player do believe that they are a sort of core player and developers should listen to them to make the game better.
    It is only valid to some degree. The game should always get new players and what core players advise is often not suitable for newcomers because core players want to adjust game for core players and not for newcomers.
    How is this related to the topic? Or do you think that new players have no interest in group content and raids? That would be a silly assumption, so I hope I misunderstood you. Preferring grouping or soloing, is more about our preferences as gamers or people. Not so much about how long we played a specific game. Loads of veterans just wants to play music, do lore sightseeing and fluffy festivals.

    New players that dislikes easy solo quests (as the only way to level), will never get into the game and eventually quit. In many other MMOs you can gain exp by doing PvP, random challenges, joining quest groups and running dungeons, for example. That's why I think Big Battles with a scaling option, is a nice initiative. People below cap can enjoy it and use it as a fresh way to gain privileges and exp.

    But the biggest reason new players ditch Lotro, is the TP cost. It comes a little bit to early, imo, before people are fully hooked, invested in their characters and prepared to subscribe or grind TP. Now I'm slightly of topic.

    I do agree with you, it's important to get new players invested and hooked on the game. Maybe people who played longer get a bit blind (and nostalgic) when it comes to certain bits. Especially regarding the level of difficulty when doing lower level content, gaining exp, gear and so on. They want it to be harder, slower and more loyal to the lore. But going back to that now, would definitely repel a lot of new players. Not because a new player wants to be spoon-feed really, but because the level cap has gone up so much.

  2. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iozeph View Post
    a feeling of persistence in their world when every expansion they've kept fiddling and changing the rules, the currencies, and core mechanics?
    You've just described every MMO that has lasted longer than a year. I am a bit baffled why this current round of class changes is causing so much more anxiety than the previous times they've changed things (and they have done some very major class changes in the past).

    we're having naught but a round of skirmishes for this expansion's grand feature?
    We don't know that. Big battles may end up just being skirmishes but as described this is not what they are. Yes, they are not "traditional" group instances but they are also presumably not skirmishes either. I can also make a guess here and think that by "skirmishes" you really mean "easy mode", and there's no evidence whatsoever yet that the big battles (or whatever final name they get) will be easy.

  3. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by clarabelle View Post
    But the biggest reason new players ditch Lotro, is the TP cost. It comes a little bit to early, imo, before people are fully hooked, invested in their characters and prepared to subscribe or grind TP. Now I'm slightly of topic.
    Really? So we went from an expensive game where you had to pull out a credit card to play even your first minute of the game, to a cheaper version that gives you full access until level 30, and that's STILL too expensive? Sure, it may have options to spend TP before level 30, but no one needs to do that at all and if they do want some convenience it is still incredibly inexpensive. Level 30 does not seem too early, you see a good chunk of the game by then including most of the best parts of the game.

  4. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    Gee, I wonder how that happened...
    LOL

    A few outspoken individuals chose a side.
    Either you play the game by yourself or with others.
    If you take the opposing side one of the 2 will happen:
    1. You will be told the M in MMO stands for Multiplayer
    2. The G in MMORPG does not stand for grouping.

    There will be tons of people posting how much they love the game. Yet spending more time here on the forums than in game.
    There will be tons of people posting about how much the game is not great even though they are not playing it.

    The forum becomes a different world from the people actually playing the game.

    I have found the more I enjoy the game the less I am visiting the forum. The times I do come here are the times that I am not enjoying the game. Basically I do this to let the developer know the aspects of the game I dislike. But as we all know the "players", posters here lately have been taking that to be a personal attack on the way they enjoy the game.

    Which leads me to believe alot of threads lately that get responded to are nothing more than a way for players to attack one another. Just think if that energy was directed at those producing the actual game. Scary thoughts.

  5. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    LOL

    A few outspoken individuals chose a side.
    Either you play the game by yourself or with others.
    If you take the opposing side one of the 2 will happen:
    1. You will be told the M in MMO stands for Multiplayer
    2. The G in MMORPG does not stand for grouping.

    There will be tons of people posting how much they love the game. Yet spending more time here on the forums than in game.
    There will be tons of people posting about how much the game is not great even though they are not playing it.

    The forum becomes a different world from the people actually playing the game.

    I have found the more I enjoy the game the less I am visiting the forum. The times I do come here are the times that I am not enjoying the game. Basically I do this to let the developer know the aspects of the game I dislike. But as we all know the "players", posters here lately have been taking that to be a personal attack on the way they enjoy the game.

    Which leads me to believe alot of threads lately that get responded to are nothing more than a way for players to attack one another. Just think if that energy was directed at those producing the actual game. Scary thoughts.
    I hope you were able to infer the cheekiness of my post...

    In my opinion, Turbine can't wonder at those who seem to only post negative things. After all, they themselves have acknowledged how most people don't use the forums and that this silent majority is more or less content with the game. It's the bellyachers who come here to rain fire and brimstone on the otherwise positive parade, right? My posting history over the years has been overwhelmingly negative - or at least rather critical - regarding several aspects of the game. All that while, I was still playing it, so I must have been enjoying it. Once I stopped enjoying it, I stopped playing it and largely stopped posting.

    They self-admittedly have plenty of ways to monitor what people like about the game - or at least what they choose to take part in. No one really needs to come here to reinforce that, in my opinion. Your in-game actions speak for themselves. If there's a grind you detest, but still take part in, there's really no sense in bitching about it because you're still doing it. You're more or less a hypocrite in that regard.

    Personally, I rarely post here anymore because I can no longer muster any passion for the game and I feel like I've repeated myself to the n-th degree over the years - and it ultimately didn't make the game any better for me. Not to mention you find yourself constantly battling the same 4 or 5 people again and again in some sort of verbal hamster wheel. Killing time, indeed...

    The forums are a sounding board, but rarely produce tangible change. I've never been under any other illusions even if I felt the need to say my piece. Of course, the amount of censorship here is really the most counterproductive practice possible - but in the end, we all know that the forums don't really mean anything other than a way to kill time. For an outlet that means so little to the actual progression (or regression) of the game, it's amazing it's so heavily moderated when we're continually told there are better outlets for getting your "voice" actually heard. It's largely a one-way street around here and it's never gone the dissenters' way - no matter how rational the dissenting argument.
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  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    The forums are a sounding board,
    Now. I get a lot of useful info about building character, doing this instance, completing that quest too...
    But yes, some people see it exactly as a place where they can express their emotions. Anonymously. Which is perfectly fit those people full on negativity.

  7. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    snipped for brevity....

    ...Personally, I rarely post here anymore because I can no longer muster any passion for the game and I feel like I've repeated myself to the n-th degree over the years - and it ultimately didn't make the game any better for me. Not to mention you find yourself constantly battling the same 4 or 5 people again and again in some sort of verbal hamster wheel. Killing time, indeed...

    The forums are a sounding board, but rarely produce tangible change. I've never been under any other illusions even if I felt the need to say my piece. Of course, the amount of censorship here is really the most counterproductive practice possible - but in the end, we all know that the forums don't really mean anything other than a way to kill time. For an outlet that means so little to the actual progression (or regression) of the game, it's amazing it's so heavily moderated when we're continually told there are better outlets for getting your "voice" actually heard. It's largely a one-way street around here and it's never gone the dissenters' way - no matter how rational the dissenting argument.
    Spot on. I feel much the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by evguenil View Post
    Now. I get a lot of useful info about building character, doing this instance, completing that quest too...
    But yes, some people see it exactly as a place where they can express their emotions. Anonymously. Which is perfectly fit those people full on negativity.
    I used to use the forum for that as well. As the game has gone on, I've noticed all the people that used to contribute to that in a really good way (notably the Champions and Raiding sub forums for me personally) have gone. They honestly haven't been replaced.

    The reasons for that are their own, and that's fine - but as Southpa mentions, the issues are two fold. I would agree that sometimes the negativity is overwhelming and sometimes is a repeat of something already raised (most folks would rather post new than search for an older thread). Sometimes though, negativity is a sign that something is WRONG, fundamentally wrong, and often it's ignored here as just being for it's own sake.

    A lot of harm also comes from those that 'Pa mentions who seem to spend all their time here deflecting any legitimate concern with forum rule baiting and frankly, "positive" trolling. I term it thus due to it's on appearance, general positivity, but ultimate aim of shutting down "dissent" until the thread is locked.

    I would add, that a lot of those are anonymous too, and it perfectly fits them too - perhaps more interestingly as I honestly can't see WHY they would do this? At least those posting negativity are often wanting nothing more than an improvement to their game, albeit sometimes they are perhaps cutting the edge of forum rules.

    Anyway - it is what it is. The train has left the station. I hope that the changes being made by Turbine are received positively by the community. I just don't think we are going to keep a lot of people going forward, or bring back anyone that left. Fundamentally, I've seen no indication from official release info. about loot changing or traditional raid spaces. I am also skeptical about the trait trees but will try them out on live before making up my mind.

    Just my opinion, take it for what you will.

  8. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    It may be worth noting that the biggest MMOs around haven't felt the need to do away with raiding. Your statement is complete personal opinion that you're trying to represent as some momentous status quo.
    If you can't seem to function in an environment with more than 6 people, that's fine. There is content for you - and best of all, future LotRO should be right up your alley. But claiming that raiding is "losing its luster" when the games most comparable to LotRO (genre-wise) keep releasing new ones, just makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about. Rift and TOR have just released new raids in the past few weeks. Guess they didn't get your memo... Both of those games are doing much better than LotRO, BTW.

    This is a LotRO thing, not an MMO thing. Realize that much. The way you misrepresent raiding in general, it's no wonder you have a hard time coping with its very existence. I would too if it was actually as you bluntly describe.
    Someone sounds bitter. I have been raiding in LOTRO since the start, and I feel that the game would offer more to folks if they limited large-player required content. More often than not, a player favors doing things with a small company of friends and not a large group. Yes, there are games doing better than LOTRO but that is FAR more on the basis of the game's engine, graphics and character customization than the fact of its end-game content. Having done Rift end-game, can tell you that it is nothing more than the same thing we've seen since WoW standardized the instanced raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaniemooch View Post
    I disagree. Lotro was/is always at its best in challenging 12 man content. As in raids.

    I don't like skirms, I don't do them often and only as 12 mans. I don't want more skirms.

    I do 3/6 man content if there is something in there I want, or because I have 2 friends I run with constantly and we do 3 mans.

    And if I wanted to play solo for everything I'd play Skyrim.

    The only reason raids are losing their luster is the quality of raids released by Turbine has gone downhill over the past couple years. Way downhill.
    I agree on the raiding luster due to the decline in quality ... but LOTRO has a niche, it is how it will survive. It will NEVER become a bolstered raiding MMO, not anymore than it will become a PvP MMO. Turbine would be far better for it if they embraced what LOTRO offers best, an adventure through Middle Earth; not gating the best of places behind X required players. Trouble with MMOs these days is the race to the so-called END GAME ... rather than making the journey to it rewarding and fulfilling. When reading a book or playing a game of table-top ... you don't flip to the end and expect to get the fulfillment of the tale. Want to know why SoA was the best point of LOTRO? Because the journey from 1 to 50 was utterly fantastic ... and wasn't on fast forward.
    Last edited by warriorpoetex; Oct 25 2013 at 10:11 PM.
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

  9. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by warriorpoetex View Post
    Someone sounds bitter. I have been raiding in LOTRO since the start, and I feel that the game would offer more to folks if they limited large-player required content. More often than not, a player favors doing things with a small company of friends and not a large group. Yes, there are games doing better than LOTRO but that is FAR more on the basis of the game's engine, graphics and character customization than the fact of its end-game content. Having done Rift end-game, can tell you that it is nothing more than the same thing we've seen since WoW standardized the instanced raid.



    I agree on the raiding luster due to the decline in quality ... but LOTRO has a niche, it is how it will survive. It will NEVER become a bolstered raiding MMO, not anymore than it will become a PvP MMO. Turbine would be far better for it if they embraced what LOTRO offers best, an adventure through Middle Earth; not gating the best of places behind X required players. Trouble with MMOs these days is the race to the so-called END GAME ... rather than making the journey to it rewarding and fulfilling. When reading a book or playing a game of table-top ... you don't flip to the end and expect to get the fulfillment of the tale. Want to know why SoA was the best point of LOTRO? Because the journey from 1 to 50 was utterly fantastic ... and wasn't on fast forward.
    Yet here they are, fast-forwarding us through the game with a mandatory +100% XP boost. Enjoy the journey, indeed.

    (And yes, I know about, and have recently purchased some XP Disablers.)

  10. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Dordain View Post
    Yet here they are, fast-forwarding us through the game with a mandatory +100% XP boost. Enjoy the journey, indeed.

    (And yes, I know about, and have recently purchased some XP Disablers.)
    Aye, adding a forced XP boost is horrid and sadly, I think it even overrides the XP disabler that is really spendy from the Store ..
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by warriorpoetex View Post
    Aye, adding a forced XP boost is horrid and sadly, I think it even overrides the XP disabler that is really spendy from the Store ..
    You could be right. It depends on the implementation. Given that XP boosts are generally additive (that is two "+50%" boosts yield "200%", not "225%" of normal), it may be that the disabler is actually a linear "-100%" rather than a "set to 0" effect.

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    You could be right. It depends on the implementation. Given that XP boosts are generally additive (that is two "+50%" boosts yield "200%", not "225%" of normal), it may be that the disabler is actually a linear "-100%" rather than a "set to 0" effect.
    I think we would already have heard the screaming if that were the case. It's incredibly easy to check.

  13. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isharra View Post
    I think we would already have heard the screaming if that were the case. It's incredibly easy to check.
    Sometimes people need all the help they can get, Im sure heydt acknowledged its easy he is just trying to help.

    So any official response for more raids

  14. #264
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    They have officially stated long ago that Helms Deep would have no traditional instances or raids, that they were focusing on Big Battles here. They did say future expansions may have raids or may have more big battles or both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q4: Bedalin: Will future expansions and updates have more Big Battles or will we see more traditional Raids?
    A4: jwbarry:
    Likely both. The type of story we’re telling and the location we’re telling it will greatly inform whether instances, raids, skirmishes, big battles, or some combination is the best gameplay mechanism to utilize.
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  15. #265

    Interesting

    http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cf...Smendgame.html

    Maybe Big Battles will address some of these points.
    "I swear to God, if this thing turns into a zombie attack, I am quitting." - Jack Carter

 

 
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