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  1. #1

    Turbine Helms Deep Instance cluster and raids?

    Turbine,

    If its listed somewhere I do apologize, I just got home From my Cancer treatment.

    I want to know what is the planned instance cluster as well as raids for the expansion?
    I do realize that for the instance cluster and raids , they may come at later dates like the last 2 expansions?


    thanks.

  2. #2
    anyone know?

  3. #3
    Turbine has stated clearly: there is NO instance cluster. No traditional instances, raids, or skirmishes will be released with Helm's Deep.

    Instead -- we will get Big Battles, their new "instanced" content. It is NOT known fully what that looks like.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/062050000000aa753/01004/signature.png]Roselindea[/charsig]

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by twittfounder View Post
    Turbine has stated clearly: there is NO instance cluster. No traditional instances, raids, or skirmishes will be released with Helm's Deep.

    Instead -- we will get Big Battles, their new "instanced" content. It is NOT known fully what that looks like.
    Can we please get a little more info on how this all is going to work?

    I mean none of us have any idea.
    By moving the level cap up 10 levels since there aren't new raids and new instance cluster will the old end game raids and instance clusters now scale up 10 levels as well as have new loot drops 10 levels higher etc?

    Or are they old end game instance clusters and raids going to be made useless due to the new helms deep expansion with level cap going up 10 levels, the old instances and raids will be easy mode for raids and instance runs cause groups will be to do them 10 levels higher then what they were designed for?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by NekuDoku View Post
    Can we please get a little more info on how this all is going to work?

    I mean none of us have any idea.
    By moving the level cap up 10 levels since there aren't new raids and new instance cluster will the old end game raids and instance clusters now scale up 10 levels as well as have new loot drops 10 levels higher etc?

    Or are they old end game instance clusters and raids going to be made useless due to the new helms deep expansion with level cap going up 10 levels, the old instances and raids will be easy mode for raids and instance runs cause groups will be to do them 10 levels higher then what they were designed for?


    I agree I want to know this as well before I buy the Expansion 59.99 version with added legendary pack.

    Turbine can you let us know your plans on how you are going to handle this as well as more details of the new end game in the expansion as well as old game what is going to happen to it?

  6. #6
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    It's called BIG BATTLES! It'll be the Battle for Helm's Deep. That's it. Raids? Instances? Skirmishes? Nope. Big Battles.

    And I agree with what one poster said in another thread. Big Battles. Seriously? That's what the braintrust came up with to call these? Big Battles? What's next for Gondor? REALLY BIG BATTLES?

    /facepalm
    Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar, tenn’ Ambar-metta!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaynith View Post
    It's called BIG BATTLES! It'll be the Battle for Helm's Deep. That's it. Raids? Instances? Skirmishes? Nope. Big Battles.

    And I agree with what one poster said in another thread. Big Battles. Seriously? That's what the braintrust came up with to call these? Big Battles? What's next for Gondor? REALLY BIG BATTLES?

    /facepalm
    I know its called big battles now, however that does not tell us anything.

  8. #8
    Look basically what I want to know is what happens to all the old end game raids and content as well as instance clusters are they still staying the same level with the same items?

    Are they being moved up by 10 levels to match the new level cap with all the gear from raids and old end game now replaced with newer higher level gear etc?


    Basically if Turbine is only doing the big battles but leaving alone the old raids and instance cluster end game, all of that will not just be ezmode due to new 10 level cap difference but all the former end game raid and instance gear will now be useless, Yes I know this happens in every AAA MMO expansion when the level cap goes up the old raid gear and end game gear is made useless but Turbine my issue is if your big battle system does not make the bigger medium and large size raid guilds and semi raid kinships if they now have nothing to do, a lot of players will leave to other mmos and this will impact all the large and medium size KInships that use raiding hardcore to medium to light raids they people will be bored and quit game in masses.

    ty

  9. #9
    the main raid kins have already left this game.

    medium raid kins have mostly left.

    all other raid kins (casual - interested in raiding) arent doing any raiding as they have nobody to raid with now since the main raiders/leaders/kins have gone.

    raiding is done people have already gone.

  10. #10
    No one is answering your questions because apart from saying Big Battles a lot, Turbine hasn't really said anything else about scaling old instances or new loot.

    The cynic in me suggests that what they really want to see is the Raiders and PVMPers all switch over to their shiny new MOBA and leave LOTRO to the casuals. http://www.infinitecrisis.com/en

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Avarune View Post
    No one is answering your questions because apart from saying Big Battles a lot, Turbine hasn't really said anything else about scaling old instances or new loot.

    The cynic in me suggests that what they really want to see is the Raiders and PVMPers all switch over to their shiny new MOBA and leave LOTRO to the casuals. http://www.infinitecrisis.com/en
    That's exactly want they're banking on, IMO. What they're failing to see is that although the PvP players might be amenable to trying out their new MOBA, the "raiders" aren't looking for anything remotely like that. Raiding(as all but 5 people on the forums knows first hand) entails a group of people surmounting tough, strategic PvE challenges together in a fun, social atmosphere. Not exactly the MOBA demographic.

    The sea is calling us home...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Avarune View Post
    No one is answering your questions because apart from saying Big Battles a lot, Turbine hasn't really said anything else about scaling old instances or new loot.

    The cynic in me suggests that what they really want to see is the Raiders and PVMPers all switch over to their shiny new MOBA and leave LOTRO to the casuals. http://www.infinitecrisis.com/en
    wow I never even saw that... Another MOBA to duel with DotA2, Smite, Strife, League of Legends, the Middle Earth Moba and all the others... yay! <sarcasm>

  13. #13
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    Unfortunately Turbine decided it's not profitable enough for them to keep making new raids and instances, so they won't. Unfortunately with that they also lose a lot of players.

  14. #14
    Wow this is sad.....as a result of the lackluster Rohan (Isengard was made my server Imladris a beehive of activity by comparison, even in the quiet days leading up to an expansion), now my 30 page long Kin which used to be into casual raiding but was there more for the company is dead, no more than 5-6 on at a time. The exodus people willing to do any instances let alone raids on the smaller servers really killed the game for me, if I wanted to play a solo game I would get Skyrim not a deserted MMO.

  15. #15
    I just have to say I feel this is a horrible mistake. Raiders and PVMPrs are part of this game too and Turbine seems to have forgotten us in favor of light casual gaming and role-play. This was apparent even with the people that were selected for their 'council'. Hardly any raiders or pvmprs were selected. The raids up to ToO were great and challenging. They were fun and engrossing and had a story purpose. RoR raids left something to be demanded of and they seemed to be 'parts' of raids instead of wholesome raids. This is a let down if Turbine is truly done with giving us any kinds of challenges anymore. If I want to play a game like Diablo... I'll go play Diablo III or II, which I have. I might have wanted to check out the other game but the interest isn't there if this game is going to die because it just caters to a specific group and drops others out. I want to say this isn't Turbine deciding this, but instead, WB. Other games have gotten the attention of big corps and have fallen and is this going to be different or not? Turbine... PLEASE stop forgetting about the players who spend hours enjoying the challenges the game has had to offer in the past. Otherwise, you give us no choice but to give up. Raiders are still here but what's going to be left for us? I wish Turbine would actually respond. Hopes are fading.

  16. #16
    Keep up the excellent feedback all!

  17. #17
    Very disappointed in the new direction of the game now. Besides the seeming move to fast track us on rails to the end of the story, and only visit areas that are essential to the books, now we will get no more instances, let alone raids. Long gone are the days of sprawling sandbox style instances like Carn Dum and Urugarth, and now even the linear on-rails instances will be a thing of the past.
    I will still enjoy exploring and questing in middle earth, in what else of it they decide to make for us, but the boredom factor settles in very quickly now after new content. This big battles system beret be very deep and engrossing, with good rewards to shoot for, otherwise I don't foresee great things ahead.
    Goreamir - 105 Capt | Jinwe - 91 Hunt | Celebourne - 94 Champ | Humblefoot - 77 Mini | Dorfus - 77 Guard | Creonath - 58 Warden | Stormcraban - 38 LM | Whippit - 40 Burg | Thangadir - 37 RK | Jonly - 32 Beornng | Zongrul - 41 Bank

  18. #18
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    I understand the frustration raiders have with this situation. However, once Turbine admitted that raiders were such a small percentage of their player population (and had been for a long time), it seemed likely to me that they'd dial back expenditures there. It just doesn't make tons of sense to create lots of the most expensive content in the game (by far), and then only have it get used by a very modest percentage of your players.

    "Big Battles" (which I agree is a pretty lame/stupid name) is almost certainly a reaction to those set of facts. They don't want to give up on creating compelling content, but they want far more people to participate in it, increasing the breadth of the draw it has, and offering a much better entertainment bang for the buck.

    Could they have increased raiding participation by A) creating lots of new raids, and B) putting tons of really awesome, raid-exclusive, best-of-class loot in them? Maybe. But maybe that would just piss off the much larger percentage of customers who rarely or never raid.

    Khafar

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchEZmoder View Post
    Unfortunately Turbine decided it's not profitable enough for them to keep making new raids and instances, so they won't. Unfortunately with that they also lose a lot of players.
    When you say "a lot" do you mean absolute numbers, and--if so--how many to within an order of magnitude, or do you mean "a lot" in the sense of a large percentage of the existing players, and--if so--on what basis to you state that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebadan View Post
    This was apparent even with the people that were selected for their 'council'. Hardly any raiders or pvmprs were selected.
    Given the percentages that Sapience cited, that would make the council a representative sample of the player base. Since the selection was done by Turbine, one might expect them to make that selection of play styles to be a rough match to what their own numbers say about how people play.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrawn View Post
    Very disappointed in the new direction of the game now. Besides the seeming move to fast track us on rails to the end of the story, and only visit areas that are essential to the books, now we will get no more instances, let alone raids.
    I don't think you can draw that conclusion from this expansion. Turbine has said that there is nowhere suitable in Western Rohan for traditional raids and instances, they just don't fit the story or the situation. A large 'set piece" battle *does* fit the time and location. That doesn't say that future areas *won't* have situations that fit instances up to raid size.

  21. #21
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    The decline of the raiding population was a self-fulfilling prophesy. They made made 1 bad raid, coincidentally when they skipped an entire expansion cycle to develop f2p, and then when people didn't rush back in the same numbers for Ost Dunoth, they hardly gave the population time to recover before they declared it dead and a money-sink. It's like they expected raiding to bounce back 100% with ToO, and when it didn't, they gave up and we got RoR (and now HD).

    But yeah, I appreciate Turbine's part in helping me kick my LOTRO addiction. I have exactly zero drive to purchase HD, renew my sub when it expires, or even log in anymore. And I say this as a Founder with over 1.5 years *logged in* over 6.5 years, and having bought the most expensive version of every expansion to date.

    Thank you, Turbine, for helping me kick my habit. I never could have done it if you had continued making a quality product.
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celebadan View Post
    Raiders and PVMPrs are part of this game too and Turbine seems to have forgotten us in favor of light casual gaming and role-play. This was apparent even with the people that were selected for their 'council'. Hardly any raiders or pvmprs were selected.
    One thought occurs to me. If I were selecting a Player Council, I would be aiming to select from among the volunteers in appoximately the same proportions as the different sorts of players were present in the community as a whole. Thus, for example, if fanatical horse collectors presented 10% of the community, I would be looking to try and get 10% of the Council from among that group.

    It may be that the Council represents accurately the distribution of player types within the community.

    Of, of course, it may simply represent a dastardly conspiracy on the part of Turbine to skew the community even more in a specific direction.

    You get to choose what you want to believe. It's a (relatively) free virtual world.
    TANSTAAFL

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Could they have increased raiding participation by A) creating lots of new raids, and B) putting tons of really awesome, raid-exclusive, best-of-class loot in them? Maybe. But maybe that would just piss off the much larger percentage of customers who rarely or never raid.

    Khafar
    That's the interesting thing here, opinions, if they did B) i would have done what i did in update 5 quit VIP and play something else and also not preorder the next expansion, conversely the focus more on my playstyle in ROR has me now preordering HD. I'd feel about the raids the same way Raiders felt about hytbold.
    Nothing here matters.

  24. #24
    My 2 cents about the raid cluster.

    What I think Turbine is doing is releasing the HD with a few glorified skirmishes(Big Battles) and keeping an instance/raid cluster for the next zone. As shown with RoI and RoR Turbine can't create the EXP+raids fast enough, so they release raids a few months later. This way they can put bigger price on the next small upgrade and If you remember forums were full with cries about the delayed cluster, so this time they just don't tell us.

    I am not 100% sure on that it is just my thoughts and they can be completely false, but this suits Turbines style and it could work fine for Turbine as we will have to purchase both the expansion + instance cluster with the small update(like Great River and that With... thingy)
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefarioux View Post
    the main raid kins have already left this game.

    medium raid kins have mostly left.

    all other raid kins (casual - interested in raiding) arent doing any raiding as they have nobody to raid with now since the main raiders/leaders/kins have gone.

    raiding is done people have already gone.
    This is not true, the kin i'm in raid 4/5 times per week EVERY week. And everyone that raid already have bought the HD pre-order, your statement can be valid to your server, but not for every server.

 

 
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