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  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Requires purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion pack
    • Epic Story.

    Does not require Expansion Pack Purchase
    Others
    *blinks, really? Or is this a mistake? This is a huge change from an earlier commitment if confirmed accurate.
    Link to our community LOTRO store google spreadsheet pricelist and conversion rates, please contribute too!: https://goo.gl/wxPqCm

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    If you're not supporting the game by Level 85 why should Turbine string you along any further?

    I hope this means the level of quality in the epic is going to go up quite a lot.
    I'll buy the xpac regardless, and I'm VIP atm. But to offer content totally free for so long and then make a U-turn seems a bit greedy. Perhaps they were having the troubles they faced with the Volume II epilogues (since the epics are integrated into the Big Battles, from what I understand), but still... There are a lot of players who can't always purchase content, or right away. To be given 10 extra levels to gain and have one primary/common source of XP taken away is going to burn.
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  3. #128
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hundolf View Post
    So you're not selling the epic story as a F2P option. Interesting change in direction. Hasn't epic been free since In their Absence?
    Yes. Prior to this expansion the Epic Story line has been free.


    Quote Originally Posted by Belnavar View Post
    I expect that's because it involves Big Battles. See the pre-order epic page:

    https://www.lotro.com/en/content/fight-rohans-survival

    Book 13 is about Helm's Deep.

    -Bel
    Exactly right.

    The Epic Story in Helm's deep is very tightly entwined with the Epic Battle system. The story in Helm's Deep is the Epic battle we all know from the books. We've returned to the core story line from the lore and that line leads in a direct path, laid out by the Professor himself, into Helm's Deep and the battles and heroic deeds that occur there. As a result, this means the Epic story requires the purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion. Otherwise you'd not be able to complete it as it moves through the Epic Battle system.

  4. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Otherwise you'd not be able to complete it as it moves through the Epic Battle system.
    Is the Epic Book paywall at the start of the Helms Deep epic, or simply when you hit the use of the 'Epic Battle' system?

    If the Former: Why not just handle it like the 'epilogues' with Volume 2?

    If the later, I'm surprised.
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  5. #130
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Is the Epic Book paywall at the start of the Helms Deep epic, or simply when you hit the use of the 'Epic Battle' system?

    If the Former: Why not just handle it like the 'epilogues' with Volume 2?

    If the later, I'm surprised.
    Players will ultimately be the judge, but I personally think it's epic. You're going to be there when Gandalf casts out Grima. If you're a lore buff, I think it hits all the right marks.

  6. #131
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    Hey look! It's a bunch of poor people complaining again about having to spend money for a game they play!

    Been here since the start. Stopped playing this game daily when SWTOR and GW2 came out. Check in once a month to see what's going on. Have 14,000 Turbine Points in my Store Account.

    I still pre-purchased the Helm's Deep Base Edition. I have no idea what's in it, nor do I really care. It's about 3-4 years late imo, but I suspect Helm's Deep will be a good time. Also happy to still support this game even though I don't play it much anymore. We have to get to Mordor somehow and it will take $$$ to finish the stroll.
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  7. #132
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    They could've ended Book 13 just before the actual battle of Helm's Deep and then the expansion quests kick in. Book 14 begins after the battle with no mention of whether our character participated or not. Easy way to keep it FTP.
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  8. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    But to offer content totally free for so long and then make a U-turn seems a bit greedy.
    If they were making previous Epics that are currently free cost money then I'd agree, but this is new content. Personally I think too much of the content is being offered for free as is, especially in comparison to other games. Players should really have to purchase an expansion to get all the content. Just because Turbine was perhaps over-generous with previous expansion Epics does not make then greedy for deciding against that route for this expansion.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  9. #134
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    Obviously this is WAY early... but any speculation on whether the devs intend to have all future epic books purchase-only, or can the f2pers out there have reason to hope they may get some free ones down the road?
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  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Sure thing.

    Requires purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion pack
    • Battle of Helm's Deep (Epic Battles).
    • Epic Story.
    • Western Rohan/Helm's Deep Content (Quests).


    Does not require Expansion Pack Purchase

    • Class Changes.
    • Level Cap increase.
    • Additional Crafting Tier.
    Thanks for the confirmation.

    I must say my flabber was well and truly gasted

  11. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Players will ultimately be the judge, but I personally think it's epic. You're going to be there when Gandalf casts out Grima. If you're a lore buff, I think it hits all the right marks.
    While I appreciate the description of some of the content we'll get to witness, I'd still like to know where the pay-wall actually occurs.

    I am somewhat disappointed there will be no free 'try big-battles'. Without it, I doubt many of our raiding core will even stop in to give it a single shot. $40's a pretty big chunk for 'I might like it'.

    I appreciate that with the economic downturn, your company is trying to look out for its revenue, and your livelihoods.
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  12. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belnavar View Post
    If they were making previous Epics that are currently free cost money then I'd agree, but this is new content. Personally I think too much of the content is being offered for free as is, especially in comparison to other games. Players should really have to purchase an expansion to get all the content. Just because Turbine was perhaps over-generous with previous expansion Epics does not make then greedy for deciding against that route for this expansion.

    -Bel
    As you say, players should have to pay if they want all the content. But the epic books is not "all" of the content, not even close. In some cases it was almost non-existent (Dunland anyone? "Help these people then go to X; help people of X then go to Y; rinse repeat").
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  13. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    As you say, players should have to pay if they want all the content. But the epic books is not "all" of the content, not even close. In some cases it was almost non-existent (Dunland anyone? "Help these people then go to X; help people of X then go to Y; rinse repeat").
    You're not just paying for the Epics though. They are part of the content.

    I would expect these three books to follow in the same style as the three books of RoR, and thus should be better than the Dunland book.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  14. #139
    Will we have the choice to either buy the Helm's Deep expansion or quest pack with TP from the Lotro store, like with past expansions and quest packs? I really hope so...

  15. #140
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    That's a pretty major shift in the marketing/enticement used for the game, which has always been that players never have to pay to experience the Epic quest lines. Yes, other restrictions, like sufficient level, have always applied, but the line has alway been that Epic quests are F2P. I'm surprised.

  16. #141
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    Guess there is no more F2P... Back to sub only direction.
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  17. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Sure thing.


    Requires purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion pack

    • Epic Story.


    I have to say I'm extremely disappointed with this decision. The fact that the Epic Story was free for every player from start to finish was one of the few remaining strong points of LOTRO's F2P model, compared to its more recent competitors.


    I've always felt LOTRO needed to focus more on the story and less on the store, but now it seems players can't have one without the other.


    I'm not sure if it's possible to reconsider this decision at this late stage, but if there's any possibility the Epic Story could be made free again, I would strongly support that.


    I'm not looking forward to the reaction from my friends, to whom I've often bragged about the free Epic Story. I guess I'll have to get used to hearing, "I told you so."

  18. #143
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    Future of LotRo

    Hi!

    In my opininon (!) LotRo is fighting for survival at the moment.
    There are very different alternatives out there. I don't want to start a discussion about that here.

    But instead of tempting people to come back to the game an overprized expansion comes out
    hoping the lore addicted community will buy it anyway. That might work.
    But it will not help bringing back players or getting new ones.

    I am strongly tempted to stay with (name deleted) the other online MMO I am playing now.
    Only the huge amount of time I have invested in this game might force me to buy something from Helms Deep for TPs sometime later on.
    Probably because of the faction gated recipes that are therefor quest pack gated...

    For all people who want to start bashing at me:
    I have been supporting this game for several years now.
    I have paid several hundreds of Dollars for it.
    I have all nine classes at Level cap with Hytbold Armor and Second Age equipment plus at least seven Gold items.
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  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Hundolf View Post
    So you're not selling the epic story as a F2P option. Interesting change in direction. Hasn't epic been free since In their Absence?
    Its been free since free to play!
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  20. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by zombie3000 View Post
    Its been free since free to play!
    No.

    Originally only Volume 1 was free. ; Additionally the 'free' level cap was 50.

    Volume 2 and the L60 & L65 caps required you to purchase the appropriate expansions.


    When they made the lonelands free they opened up the rest of the epic EXCEPT for the volume 2 epilogues.
    It's been free ever since.
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  21. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Goodgoing View Post
    Will we have the choice to either buy the Helm's Deep expansion or quest pack with TP from the Lotro store, like with past expansions and quest packs? I really hope so...
    Yes you will but I believe you won't be able to until HD goes live.

  22. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Guess there is no more F2P... Back to sub only direction.
    Yes, because free access to the Epic lines is the only thing that makes the game F2P. *rollseyes*

    Subscribing won't give you access to the Epic lines of Helm's Deep either. It's part of the expansion pack purchase. You can be F2P or VIP and still access the Epic, so long as you've bought the expansion.

    -Bel
    Belnavar - Captain - 105 - Brandywine - Leader of Keepers of the Palantiri

  23. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post

    Requires purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion pack
    • Epic Story.



    Cheap move... its always got to be something... this decision has made me rethink my return to lotro...
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  24. #149
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    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Well... shame on me.

    Now I've never pre-purchased an edition. But I have purchased the Legendary editions of both RoI and RoR. I like to see what's really included before I lay cash out.

    Congratulations with that by the way. This is the first expansion that you've done where it's been CLEAR, as to what was really available in each edition, without smoke, mirrors, and generalized obfuscation. Kudos.

    So... I placed a bet a few months back with a buddy of mine. It was very simple. They bet me $100 that the next time LOTRO had an expansion that the Epic questline would, along with the system that turned out to be coined 'Big Battles', be charged for. I was on the fence about 'Big Battles', but I agreed on the part of the epic storyline. There was no way this would EVER go pay to play. Ever. Right?

    So there I am this morning looking at the HD prepurchase page and going... OK, with my winnings I'll get the Premium edition, and what the heck, even go for the Legendary add-on upsell and get the nifty store items and free movie ticket.

    Easy money. I can trust Turbine to keep their word on the Epic Quest chain, of all things After all, what possible reason could there be to ever change it? It's been touted time and again as one of the great benefits of the F2P model after all.

    Because certainly from day one of F2P Turbine has always maintained, from Paiz on down, that the Epic story line would continue to be available to all players, free of charge.

    And now...

    Requires purchase of the Helm's Deep expansion pack

    * Epic Story.
    I'm at a loss for words.

    So, sorry to say, that thanks to this glorious and epicly genius decision to make the long standing Epic questline now pay-to-play going forward, $100 that would have been going to you in the form of Pre-purchase, now will be going to other avenues.

    Well due to shabby treatment to customers, and me in particular, you've already lost any foreseeable TP purchases from me going forward, and now you've lost the Pre-purchase of HD as well. Double loss for us both. Not that ya'll seem to care much these days, either about unhappy customers or loss of revenue. It's a pity. I'd LOVE to give you my money for an awesome experience and product. You have one of the most incredible IP's in existence. It's a shame it seems to be so mismanaged at times.

    P.S. This is a valid opinion, not 'trolling'. Don't even go there. Have a little respect, instead of disrespect for varying opinions please. And a good dose of common sense and human decency wouldn't hurt either. Just sayin'
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  25. #150
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    Seems far too expensive for the meager returns it gives.

    I think I'll skip this one.
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    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

 

 
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