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Thread: Cappy Dev Diary

  1. #1

    Cappy Dev Diary

    Posted 15 minutes ago on Facebook
    http://www.lotro.com/en/game/article...E2%80%99s-deep
    Sabian- Hunter85
    All warfare is based on deception

  2. #2
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    Looks like captain might be a bit harder to play now, I'm liking these changes they seem pretty well thought out.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000002c9618/signature.png]Farimur[/charsig]

  3. #3
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    For the most part they look like positive changes. The only two things I'm worried about are the new buffing (how potent the main buff is compared to the rest) and SotD (hoping it ends up at the top of the yellow line vs near the bottom).
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    For the most part they look like positive changes. The only two things I'm worried about are the new buffing (how potent the main buff is compared to the rest) and SotD (hoping it ends up at the top of the yellow line vs near the bottom).
    I keep thinking I must have read it wrong....they are taking away our buffs right? (crit, power, perry) They will only be executed with other skills we already have and it only happens when in group, right?

    Most of the people I know who play cappy as main, myself included, think half of the joy of doing so is being able to randomly buff people (and especially friends) and put a smile on their face. How can they take that away from us? *cry*


    The trait lines sound fine. I have especially adored playing captian in Rohan because of the HOH armor set bonus. I am concerned that with it going away we might not be able to heal as well. It was hard to heal 3 mans in Isn, so much so that I just logged onto my RK or Mini. I like having the choice to stay on my cappy...but time will tell.

    Cappy Clairawen

  5. #5
    im mostly scared. i may get more optimistic when i get my hands on beta, but from what iv heard... not good.
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  6. #6
    I'm cautiously optimistic. While we don't know the exact details (things may change in beta, etc) it seems like their heart is in the right place. I like what they're shooting for, but it remains to be seen how effective the implementation is.

    People do seem overly bent out of shape about not getting everything in one line. They seem to forget that Cappy's don't have stances, so we can trait a little bit of everything.
    [B]Dwarrowdelf[/B]: Gufli-Champ(58), Gadhalion-Hunter(27), Galbarad-Warrden(23), Gildro-Burg(20)
    [B]Windfola[/B]: Fredemond-Mini(25), Fimorin-Cappy(34), Fallaf-Guard(25), Fumli-RK(25), Falandion-LM(21)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningflame View Post
    The trait lines sound fine. I have especially adored playing captian in Rohan because of the HOH armor set bonus. I am concerned that with it going away we might not be able to heal as well. It was hard to heal 3 mans in Isn, so much so that I just logged onto my RK or Mini. I like having the choice to stay on my cappy...but time will tell.
    I never had any problems healing in Isen. It was a little tougher in the 3-mans, sure, but much more rewarding. Foundry was a joke to heal, people were doing like 1cappy5champ runs through there (myself included).
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  8. #8
    My main concern is that this is the end of the cappy as Swiss Army Knife/FS crisis management. That's how mine is built currently - 1H+shield, 5b/2r, heals like a boss and can tank through healing aggro but can't DPS worth squat, and I'm fine with that.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
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  9. #9
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    I like that they are trying to differentiate the lines more. I don't mind that they are forcing more specialization in the tools that any one captain can bring, one captain brings too much to the table and thus had a dedicated spot in raids, which should be nerfed. The upside is that it should allow more than one captain in a group to be useful, i.e. each bringing different tools and fulfilling different roles, as long as the numbers and balance is right.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aedfrith View Post
    My main concern is that this is the end of the cappy as Swiss Army Knife/FS crisis management. That's how mine is built currently - 1H+shield, 5b/2r, heals like a boss and can tank through healing aggro but can't DPS worth squat, and I'm fine with that.
    I'm **HOPING** that those in Beta are doing their part to ensure this doesn't happen.

    But really, only the class dev will be able to speak to that =/
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  11. #11
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    This is the first time for years I'm actually worried. The captain is the best class in EVERY RPG I have played.

    Granted, survival has always been an issue while main healing (e.g. using In Harm`s Way strategically or proactively healing by offtanking with healing aggro) but to reduce the problem to the HoH line is wrong. And shield of the Dunedain is the inofficial HoH capstone, pushing it to the yellow line (which doesn`t really need it even if it can be applied to the captain) is ... creative but an emergency survival skill doesn`t solve the tanking captain`s main problems (morale, crit defence, aggro)


    Furthermore I fear that the new active buffing system gives HoH - Captains a second useless buffing ability (after the situational song brother), e.g. In-combat-reg oder outgoing healing restricting our chance to increase the group`s dps:


    "While each line focuses on one of the three areas, Captains will still be able to provide smaller benefits to other roles. For example, the Tactics buffs have been completely reworked. The Tactics skills have been removed from the game. Now, Captains may apply a Tactics buff (which depends on their specialization) to their Fellowship when they use Sure Strike."

    - It would have been fair to simply give a "sure-strike"- critbuff to all trait lines or that the the kind of buff would`ve been determined by the skill which is used AFTER the sure strike (eg. devastating strike for a crit buff, defensive strike for a + parry and so on), its potency being modified by a critical hit.

    So, in short, we`ll have to trait deep yellow to heal because a squishy "dps- heal-hybrid" - role is already filled with rk, lm, or minis (except in harmony stance where they will even tank better than a HoH- Captain .


    However, I really like the attention for our heralds. What we could use would be a thing similar to the flanking mechanics of the lore-masters which triggers short- time buffs.
    Last edited by Benthragand; Sep 12 2013 at 02:15 PM.
    The hands of a healer are the hands of a king.

  12. #12
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    As Sapience had now locked the dev diary thread because of leaks, I would encourage captains who are in Beta to be extra cautious when posting, so they can stay in Beta.
    Last edited by Almagnus1; Sep 12 2013 at 04:33 PM.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    As Sapience had now locked the dev diary thread because of leaks, I would encourage captains who are in Beta to be extra cautious when pisting, so they can stay in Beta
    read pisting as pissing... which is also an appropriate discription...

    Quote Originally Posted by Benthragand View Post
    So, in short, we`ll have to trait deep yellow to heal because a squishy "dps- heal-hybrid" - role is already filled with rk, lm, or minis (except in harmony stance where they will even tank better than a HoH- Captain .


    However, I really like the attention for our heralds. What we could use would be a thing similar to the flanking mechanics of the lore-masters which triggers short- time buffs.
    after reading https://www.lotro.com/en/content/revitalize-your-role LoM healing cappy is what i came up with. as to herald... blearg in groups i already have 2/5 pets tanking/healing/dpsing and solo... i can crush any mob out there except those 2 trolls in isen and some of the elites/nemsi in ne angmar
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkplg13 View Post
    read pisting as pissing... which is also an appropriate discription...
    I blame posting on a droid........

    Should be "posting"
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  15. #15
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    [Edit: If DelgonTheWise's interpretation is correct and SotD is available to all Captains, then please ignore this posting.]


    When main healing the vast majority of content, I would sooner give up my HoH or LtC capstone than Shield of the Dunedain (SotD)... and I have multiple times when someone insisted I used IDOME.

    I prefer SotD because Captains have plenty of AoE heals, but almost no ability to heal a single target who suddenly needs it. I doubt I could heal-main half the end-game content without it.

    But let's not discuss personal anecdotes; let's consider game-design theory.

    To draw and keep players, MMORPG developers must provide the following:
    • Perceived fame and/or power
    • A slow trickle of minor rewards
    • Occasional large rewards requiring both an element of skill and luck

    These fundamentals may be applied not only to characters over the course of weeks or months, but also over the course of a single battle.

    From a main healer's perspective:
    • Perceived fame and power is obtained from "saving lives," earning loot, and occasionally being thanked by other players
    • A slow trickle of minor rewards is obtained from successfully performing normal healing duties
    • Occasional large rewards are obtained when an Emergency Healing/Mitigation Skill is suddenly needed and used, providing a larger sense of accomplishment

    From the Captain Dev Diary and other Turbine comments, it appears that Captain Healers have been locked out of the Emergency Healing/Mitigation Skills. If this is true, it will be a fundamental problem for the future enjoyment of Captain Healers. Even if they manage to successfully heal without Emergency Skills, their emotional needs for occasional large rewards will not be met (it will be as boring as "grinding").

    According the the Captain Dev Dairy and other Turbine forum/twitter/Facebook posts:
    • The emergency healing/mitigation skill Time of Need (used with Rallying Cry or Stunning Turn the Tide) has been locked in the Lead the Charge Line
    • The emergency skill In Harm's Way does not appear to be accessible to HoH Captains (might be reading too much between the lines here)
    • The emergency damage prevention skill Shield of the Dunedain has been locked in the Leader of Men line (Edit: Might have misinterpreted the dev diary and Turbine employee private twitter account postings)

    It appears that the new skill Reform the Lines! may prove a suitable substitute as an emergency heal for Time of Need and In Harm's Way (depending on what "potent" means). However, even if this is true, it means going from 3 emergency skills down to 1 (so that large reward goes from "occasionally" down to "almost never" as Captains save it just in case). Furthermore, the skill is designed for groups, not individual characters.

    Single-target emergency heals provide far greater emotional rewards than multi-target ones. This is partly due to visuals. Since single-target emergency skills don't take up as much screen real estate, designers make them flashier, and flashier is much more rewarding. More importantly, healers are much more likely to receive auditory or written thanks from other a player when they use a single-target emergency skill than a multi-target one.

    tl;dr
    Please make sure that Hands of Healing Captains have a powerful single-target emergency heal or damage mitigation skill to satisfy their emotional, as well as tactical, needs.
    Last edited by DEATHKNYGHT; Sep 13 2013 at 01:06 PM. Reason: Adapted for odd LOTRO formatting after bullet points

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEATHKNYGHT View Post
    When main healing the vast majority of content, I would sooner give up my HoH or LtC capstone than Shield of the Dunedain (SotD)... and I have multiple times when someone insisted I used IDOME.
    Where's your proof that we can't have SotD with HoH?

    Are you just making stuff up to stir the pot to make Turbine look bad?
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Where's your proof that we can't have SotD with HoH?

    Are you just making stuff up to stir the pot to make Turbine look bad?
    Only public info I know of (and only info for me, I'm not in beta) is that dev diary says "Strength in Numbers will heal the Captain based on how many Fellowship members are nearby, while Shield of the Dúnedain drastically reduces the damage the Leader of Men (or an ally) takes."

    I interpreted that as SoTD is now also self targeting in LOM, not that SoTD only works in LOM. But maybe I'm wrong.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Where's your proof that we can't have SotD with HoH?
    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    "Shield of the Dúnedain drastically reduces the damage the Leader of Men (or an ally) takes."

    I interpreted that as SoTD is now also self targeting in LOM, not that SoTD only works in LOM. But maybe I'm wrong.
    I never considered it your way, Delgon the Wise. It still sounds the other way to me, but hopefully you are correct.

  19. #19
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    The biggest problem with the NDA is that the captains that could tell you exactly what's going to happen, simply put, can't.

    Let this sink in for a second: the dev diary thread was LOCKED because of leaks.

    This is the first time that I can recall since SoA that a dev diary thread was locked BEFORE the patch/expansion it's for.

    Given what happened with the dev diary thread, it's in poor taste to start speculating because it goads captains still behind the NDA into disclosing information. This wouldn't be the first time that a really passionate person has leaked information defending something - it's **actually** the leading cause of leaks for Microsoft products, for example.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  20. #20
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    Changes sound interesting

    Though it may take a bit to get used to; I am looking forward to the challenge of the new trait lines. It will make each build a bit more specialized and hopefully more fun. I think that we were coming up to being a bit too powerful as were some other classes and this may be a way to reset the classes a bit for the game.

    Captains shouldn't be able to do a level 85 Library run solo and complete the challenge for the seals. That always seemed a bit out of balance. (I have been doing that for a while to get seals when no one else in my kin was on the game)

    I look forward to the changes!

  21. #21
    Well, the diary hasn't much details about the skill placements and requirements für each skill. A lot depends on these details, and I'll not speculate. (May I have a beta key to at least help finding the problems with the skills early, please? )

    One thing bothers me: the new buff mechanics mentioned in the diary. When my captain is tanking, his buff helps the other fellowship members to tank better? And when he is (main-)healing, he buffs the healing abilities? This sounds weird, I'd expect it otehrwise: when tanking, buff the healing abilities of the fellowship, and when healing, buff the tanking abilities.

    Especially in smaller groups, there often is no other healer when the captain is required to heal, and no other tank when he is tanking. Raids are different of course, but a lot of changes target smaller groups, and perhaps you should reconsider which buff goes where.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    The biggest problem with the NDA is that the captains that could tell you exactly what's going to happen, simply put, can't.

    Let this sink in for a second: the dev diary thread was LOCKED because of leaks.

    This is the first time that I can recall since SoA that a dev diary thread was locked BEFORE the patch/expansion it's for.
    Just this should be an indicator that something is wrong
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasimir View Post
    One thing bothers me: the new buff mechanics mentioned in the diary. When my captain is tanking, his buff helps the other fellowship members to tank better? And when he is (main-)healing, he buffs the healing abilities? This sounds weird, I'd expect it otehrwise: when tanking, buff the healing abilities of the fellowship, and when healing, buff the tanking abilities.
    It's more like this:

    LoM Captain increases survivability.
    LtC Captain increases physical damage.
    HoH Captain increases tactical skills (both healing and damage).

    This distinction pretty much exists already (mostly through the associated -Brother skill); the revamp will mostly be strengthening those distinctions.

    Is there overlap between increasing healing and increasing survivability? Yeah, a bit. The difference is sort of subtle, but they approach the problem (keeping people alive) from different ends. So I think it's ok to break the two things into separate trait lines, especially since the devs want us to have both a tanking role and a healing role. (As well as DPS role, but I don't think anyone questions the decision to put both the Captain's personal DPS ability and the Captain's DPS buffs in a trait line of its own.)

    The really difficult issue is making the HoH buffs appealing to non-healers. This is something that Song-Brother rather obviously fails at right now, as many of us, myself included, have complained since its introduction. According to the Dev Diary, RockX is still working on the new buffs with this idea in mind. So we'll have to wait and see how he solves the problem, but at least we can be fairly sure he knows about it.
    Cainwen Ciaphas, Captain of Crickhollow, HERO OF MIDDLE EARTH!!!
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by furtim View Post
    It's more like this:

    LoM Captain increases survivability.
    LtC Captain increases physical damage.
    HoH Captain increases tactical skills (both healing and damage).

    This distinction pretty much exists already (mostly through the associated -Brother skill); the revamp will mostly be strengthening those distinctions..
    There is no such distinction.

    A Cappy of ANY build can use ANY of the Brother skills, whenever they need to. And in fact the Brother Skill should be chosen situationaly, so that the Cappy is assisting the person most in need of it at the time.

    The revamp kills that dead. The very role Captains were designed to fill - On Demand Utility Support - will, in effect, be denied to them.

    Cappies will become 3rd string Tanks (behind Grd and Wrd), 3rd string Healers (behind Mini and RK) and 6th String DPS (behind Hunter, RK, Mini, Burg, LM and Champion).

    As they won't be 1st or 2nd string anything the only selling point left is "utility", and that has been destroyed.

    All The Best

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egilric View Post
    And in fact the Brother Skill should be chosen situationaly, so that the Cappy is assisting the person most in need of it at the time.
    It never was.

    It was always "Blade Bro or Go Home" with the caveat of "Our healer's a noob, go shield".

    Let's completely ignore how you can abuse bugs with FB and pulling buffs from fellow members, shall we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Egilric View Post
    Cappies will become 3rd string Tanks (behind Grd and Wrd), 3rd string Healers (behind Mini and RK) and 6th String DPS (behind Hunter, RK, Mini, Burg, LM and Champion).

    As they won't be 1st or 2nd string anything the only selling point left is "utility", and that has been destroyed.
    Go Doom&Gloom(TM) somewhere else, OK?
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

 

 
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