We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 47
  1. #1

    Exclamation Urgent Question For Sapience!

    K i know its been addressed that with the helms deep update there will be no raids, no classic raids. What i want to know is if throughout the entire expansion of helms deep will there be no raids. Notihng like isengard / watcher etc in future updates in helms deeps?
    I do it for the lulz. ~SnH~
    People @ turbine/WB are a huge tease, but dont worry they end up screwing you on every update/expansion.
    " When enough scrubs get together, they accomplish great things "

  2. #2
    they stated that no raids are even in development right now and wont be untill AFTER helms deep goes live, given that the normal mulitboss raid takes 15-18 months to develop we can safely assume there will be no multiboss raid for the duration of helms deep, we will be lucky to get more ###### raids like erebor or another failed attempt to scale an old raid.
    and too add to that turbine has also given all our classes a MASSIVE nerf, gg

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    1,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiperandwake View Post
    they stated that no raids are even in development right now and wont be untill AFTER helms deep goes live, given that the normal mulitboss raid takes 15-18 months to develop we can safely assume there will be no multiboss raid for the duration of helms deep, we will be lucky to get more ###### raids like erebor or another failed attempt to scale an old raid.
    and too add to that turbine has also given all our classes a MASSIVE nerf, gg
    How do you know they've all been nerfed? I missed that announcement.

    As to the OP's question, from what I understand from the Dev diaries and such, there aren't any traditional raids in the works for the foreseeable future. However, I would suggest giving the big battles a chance. Who knows? Maybe they'll surprise us?

    The Order of The Silver Flame - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  4. #4

    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by Whiperandwake View Post
    they stated that no raids are even in development right now and wont be untill AFTER helms deep goes live, given that the normal mulitboss raid takes 15-18 months to develop we can safely assume there will be no multiboss raid for the duration of helms deep, we will be lucky to get more ###### raids like erebor or another failed attempt to scale an old raid.
    and too add to that turbine has also given all our classes a MASSIVE nerf, gg
    Quote Originally Posted by Widoch View Post
    How do you know they've all been nerfed? I missed that announcement.

    As to the OP's question, from what I understand from the Dev diaries and such, there aren't any traditional raids in the works for the foreseeable future. However, I would suggest giving the big battles a chance. Who knows? Maybe they'll surprise us?
    I do appreciate the responses gents but I NEED to hear it from a GM/dev...somone workingh for turbine.

    I (no exaggeration) have an entire kin worth of members that are depending on this reply.
    I do it for the lulz. ~SnH~
    People @ turbine/WB are a huge tease, but dont worry they end up screwing you on every update/expansion.
    " When enough scrubs get together, they accomplish great things "

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    I do appreciate the responses gents but I NEED to hear it from a GM/dev...somone workingh for turbine.

    I (no exaggeration) have an entire kin worth of members that are depending on this reply.


    I don't see raiding kins making it through another expansion. By the end it will just be solo players taking on all of mordor in a "Super Epic Battle System", which is an upgrade of the new "Epic Battle System". Good luck getting a response on your question. Maybe they'll include it in the twitter dev chat, but those questions are usually just fluff and nothing important...like raids or release dates.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Grand 'Ole NY
    Posts
    444
    I think these Big Battles at raid size will be better than current raids. The roles will make it sound like what we saw for Moria and Lothlorien. It will be something hard to tackle at those sizes, but I think the solo and duos will be face-rolls to experienced players.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiperandwake View Post
    they stated that no raids are even in development right now and wont be untill AFTER helms deep goes live, given that the normal mulitboss raid takes 15-18 months to develop we can safely assume there will be no multiboss raid for the duration of helms deep, we will be lucky to get more ###### raids like erebor or another failed attempt to scale an old raid.
    and too add to that turbine has also given all our classes a MASSIVE nerf, gg
    It's not a nerf. The current trait system is completely stupid and absolutely cookie cutter, with lots of classes having useless specs that no one uses. For example, nearly every healing minstrel uses approximately the same build, it'll be nice to see some variation in the classes. The current system is the problem, not the new one.

    As for no new raids, I'm disappointed with that BUT absolutely willing to forgive it if Big Battles turn out good. There are some interesting ideas in what they've said about them so far. Of course, until we've actually seen and played them it's impossible to give any kind of assessment, but the IDEAS at least are good.

    MMO players are simply the WORST. "Innovate! Give us new! Break new ground! But also please always have these things that are expected in MMOS. So go ahead and innovate and try something different, but do that in ADDITION to developing the tiered multiboss raids with a gear ladder."

    MMOs do not have infinite developer resources: MMO players cry constantly for innovation and new ideas, then moan and complain when they don't get the things they "expect" in an MMO. You can't have everything. I am excited to see what Big Battles bring: if they are as good as they sound like they could be then I won't miss raids. There are things Turbine does that I really don't like and some things that I do like, but I do applaud them for at least trying something new and innovative instead of more of the same ol' same ol' multiboss raids.
    Player of Netherlad
    Strayhold Kinship
    Landroval Server

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    I do appreciate the responses gents but I NEED to hear it from a GM/dev...somone workingh for turbine.
    Turbine has answered this question several times. Here are some links to articles:

    http://lotroplayers.mymiddleearth.co...s-deep-proper/

    Notable quote:

    Q10: Will Helm’s Deep also feature traditional boss progression style group content?
    No. Helm’s Deep instance content is being represented fully with the Big Battles system.
    And another article:

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/09...ne-helms-deep/

    Notable quote:

    Of course, the main event of the expansion is the Helm's Deep epic battle system (also known as the "big battle" system). Starting at level 10, players can jump into the heroic defense of this iconic landmark, earning medals through a whole new advancement system. It's being called "the big bad brother of skirmishes" in the office, and Turbine expects that's how players will see epic battles. It's such a big system, in fact, that it'll be the new endgame, replacing the typical expansion addition of new skirmishes, instances, or raids.(emphasis mine)
    So they have categorically said that for the time being, the focus is on Big Battles. You will never get them to pin themselves down by saying they'll definitely be adding raids or definitely not adding raids in the future (for example, before the next expansion). So you simply have to take what they have said and go with that. MMO players take everything the dev says they are going to do or even implies the MIGHT do as a promise. They'd be crazy to promise any raid content beyond what is currently in development and slated for release. You can be sure, however, that all of their group content resources are currently being applied to Big Battles. And if they are successful, they are likely to stay that way.
    Player of Netherlad
    Strayhold Kinship
    Landroval Server

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    It's not a nerf. The current trait system is completely stupid and absolutely cookie cutter, with lots of classes having useless specs that no one uses. For example, nearly every healing minstrel uses approximately the same build, it'll be nice to see some variation in the classes. The current system is the problem, not the new one.
    You don't think there will be a min/max build for each class with the tree system? Interesting.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hundolf View Post
    You don't think there will be a min/max build for each class with the tree system? Interesting.
    Oh I'm quite sure there will be. There will always be players that break out the calculators and calculate carefully exactly which build does slightly more. Certainly there will be people saying Build X is better than Build Y, etc. But at least the number of options will be going up dramatically with the new system.

    The current system is bizarre. You get class abilities every few levels until about 50. Then around 60 or so it falls of a cliff and you go level after level after level without getting anything, it's kinda weird. Combine that with specs no one uses. How many hunters do you know that routinely use the yellow (traps) line? We have a BUNCH of hunters in my kin, and none of them use it.

    Certainly there will be people that will min/max, but the number of viable builds and sheer number of possible combinations possible will be going up dramatically. Now, I have not seen this new system in practice. So I'm not saying the system IS good--but I am saying that it COULD be good, and there are too many people that know very little about it saying how awful it is, etc. Furthermore, it is in beta and still subject to change.
    Player of Netherlad
    Strayhold Kinship
    Landroval Server

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hamburg
    Posts
    389
    This is really urgent? I think some people need to get some perspective!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,693
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    K i know its been addressed that with the helms deep update there will be no raids, no classic raids. What i want to know is if throughout the entire expansion of helms deep will there be no raids. Notihng like isengard / watcher etc in future updates in helms deeps?
    As the other guy pointed out, the developers have specifically answered this question. There are no new raids planned in the near future. What is coming with Helms Deep is what we will have to live with for at least a few months.

    And, in my opinion, it is a good thing that they are not bringing out new raids so soon with/after Helms Deep. I am of the opinion that the class revamps will be a significant upheaval... enough to cause all of us with 85s to need a bigger chunk of time to adjust.

    First, you are going to need to spend time researching all of your build options. A VIP will have 3 completely viable trait lines to work with. From personal experience, researching which build(s) you want is not as simple as it seems. Your characters will not be the same. It won't just be another +10 levels of the same thing. And, for those who have multiple 85s, those people will want ample time to adjust all of their characters.

    Next, you are likely to need to acquire some different gear for your "primary" build if your current gear isn't right for your build. The level 85 gear will still be ample until you can get to 95 and begin acquiring new gear. But, you will still need time to acquire all of this gear.

    Finally, everyone will be wanting time to get their 85s to 95. Given the new system, that journey to 95 is going to be more significant. Sure, gaining the 10 levels won't be that difficult. But, you will, again, probably want to be given ample time to adapt to your new build(s) so that you are able to participate in even the current batch of raids we do have.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,583
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCrossbow View Post
    A VIP will have 3 completely viable trait lines to work with
    What do you base this on?

    There is no reason to assume that Premium or Free players will find their trait lines any less viable than they are now if they've opened all their trait slots.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lappeenranta, Finland
    Posts
    154
    If i understand correctly you guys are talking about them adding a trait tree system. I personally think that the current system it nice. Trait tree system is too mainstream (at the risk of sounding like a hipster). The current system is different and therefor better. I don't like having to work up a tree for better traits like on the mounted combat system. It's just too much like every other game ever.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    49
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    Oh I'm quite sure there will be. There will always be players that break out the calculators and calculate carefully exactly which build does slightly more. Certainly there will be people saying Build X is better than Build Y, etc. But at least the number of options will be going up dramatically with the new system.

    The current system is bizarre. You get class abilities every few levels until about 50. Then around 60 or so it falls of a cliff and you go level after level after level without getting anything, it's kinda weird. Combine that with specs no one uses. How many hunters do you know that routinely use the yellow (traps) line? We have a BUNCH of hunters in my kin, and none of them use it.

    Certainly there will be people that will min/max, but the number of viable builds and sheer number of possible combinations possible will be going up dramatically. Now, I have not seen this new system in practice. So I'm not saying the system IS good--but I am saying that it COULD be good, and there are too many people that know very little about it saying how awful it is, etc. Furthermore, it is in beta and still subject to change.
    Honestly I don't see the raiding side changing much. We need an AM Traited LM, or a Shield Spec'd warden, or Yellow Spec'd Champ. The tree system isn't going to change that. In other games with trees builds are still important depending on the content, and people will allow/deny you to come along based on build. The only thing lotro has going for it is, not a lot of group content so who cares about builds. The gear options in LOTRO also don't really scream unique builds to me either, it is all very pro-cooky cutter build.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    1,693
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    What do you base this on?

    There is no reason to assume that Premium or Free players will find their trait lines any less viable than they are now if they've opened all their trait slots.
    We know that VIPs will have access to all of it. Premium/F2P will be dependent on what they have unlocked. Nothing personal.
    Dagranhad - Burglar | Aldgarea - Loremaster | Barathrothir - Hunter | Golladhar - Captain

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    Certainly there will be people that will min/max, but the number of viable builds and sheer number of possible combinations possible will be going up dramatically. Now, I have not seen this new system in practice. So I'm not saying the system IS good--but I am saying that it COULD be good, and there are too many people that know very little about it saying how awful it is, etc. Furthermore, it is in beta and still subject to change.
    How do trees enhance the number of possible builds vs a free trait system? By nature, trees require you to take traits lower in the tree to gain the higher levels. If you're a dps LM that wants to get to Improved Sticky Gourd, you're going to have to take skills in the order in which they are presented in the tree, regardless if you want them or not; there may be a couple branches that you may be able to skip, but if the mounted combat trees are any example, these are very few. Maybe you'll be happy to have increased fire damage in the tree, maybe you won't be if increased Parry is in the way.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Topeka, KS
    Posts
    1,072
    I think they're banking on the big battles system replacing raids completely and being an enjoyable option for both raiding kins and the general population. I'd say they have a pretty good chance of being right on that bet. There will be portions of the big battles that nobody can do except for the experienced raiding kins, I am sure of this! But that doesn't exclude others from participating in the rest of the content that is easier. There will be a much larger audience unlocked by scaling players equipment and skills (but not giving them all skills). I'm very encouraged about what I've read of the Big Battles system so far, they're going about it the right way. Finally something innovative.
    Freeps: Venusia (Guardian), Silya (RK), Dwayr (Champion), Nissys (Captain), Filodon (Burgler), Tyveil (Lore-master)
    Creeps: Venusiel (R7 Weaver), Tyveilakh (R5 Warleader)
    [url="http://kingsbeyondthewall.com/"]Kings Beyond the Wall[/url]

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    It's not a nerf.
    Yes, it is. The developers are forcing each and every class into specific roles and taking away jack-of-all-trade flexibility. "Homogenization" is a dirty word. Every class will lose approximately half of all skills, devastating battlefield management classes like Captain and Lore-Master. Have you read any of the developer comments over the last three months?

    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    The current trait system is completely stupid and absolutely cookie cutter, with lots of classes having useless specs that no one uses.
    The trait tree system rewards cookie cutter builds, not flexible builds. That is the point. Did I mention "Homogenization" is a dirty word?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Grand 'Ole NY
    Posts
    444
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexendynamus View Post
    Yes, it is. The developers are forcing each and every class into specific roles and taking away jack-of-all-trade flexibility. "Homogenization" is a dirty word. Every class will lose approximately half of all skills, devastating battlefield management classes like Captain and Lore-Master. Have you read any of the developer comments over the last three months?



    The trait tree system rewards cookie cutter builds, not flexible builds. That is the point. Did I mention "Homogenization" is a dirty word?
    Ok you lose 1 or 2 main skills you use often throughout a battle. For classes that are near invincible it does nerf them some, but the classes will be more potent in what they choose. I would much rather run with a whole group like that than have everyone covering multiple roles.

    And if you understand what they are talking about, you'll understand who much flexibility you have. Its as close as to "build your own character" as we'll get in LotRO. And of course I see many threads in the future pertaining to which build one thinks is marginally better.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    It's not a nerf. The current trait system is completely stupid and absolutely cookie cutter, with lots of classes having useless specs that no one uses. For example, nearly every healing minstrel uses approximately the same build, it'll be nice to see some variation in the classes. The current system is the problem, not the new one.
    I have to strongly disagree with you on this point, respectfully. The system is not the problem, nor is the nature of the system why there are useless choices and combinations of choices. The issue is that the work needed to balance things, and keep that balance, has not been put into them. That will be true of the coming system as well. Or any system, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    The current system is bizarre. You get class abilities every few levels until about 50. Then around 60 or so it falls of a cliff and you go level after level after level without getting anything, it's kinda weird. Combine that with specs no one uses. How many hunters do you know that routinely use the yellow (traps) line? We have a BUNCH of hunters in my kin, and none of them use it.
    Again, this is not the fault of the system inherently, but merely that the Overlords have not put any effort toward creating new abilities and skills and such after Moria. It is the same with there being unviable choices within the system right now. It is merely the lack of effort put into making all the choices viable. There will most certainly be choices seen to be unviable with the system to come as well.

    That effort, or lack thereof, is an issue because...

    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    MMOs do not have infinite developer resources: MMO players cry constantly for innovation and new ideas, then moan and complain when they don't get the things they "expect" in an MMO. You can't have everything.
    This is the most troubling aspect of all, I fear. What is basically happening is that a great deal of those precious developer resources are being used to toss away more of those precious developer resources: namely, a great deal of the effort that has gone into the class sytem to this point. They are simply tossing away a huge number of skills and much of what had come before.

    Was this the wisest use of those resources? It can be debated, but I have to say no, to my mind. They have taken a system that was unique and free-ranging, giving the player great freedom to pick and choose abilities they wanted, and are spending an enormous amount of time and energy...



    (from SWTOR)



    (from Rift)



    (from World of Warcraft)

    ...a lot of time and effort... to become ordinary. That time could have been spent on creating instances, instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    Certainly there will be people that will min/max, but the number of viable builds and sheer number of possible combinations possible will be going up dramatically.
    Again, I have to disagree. There has been a continuing trend for years now in that content has become easier and easier over time. No defensive measures or traits are needed anymore for Landscape adventuring, nor any 3 or 6 person Instances (even the Challenges), nor T1 raids, either. Unless you want to play with those for fun, everyone will have two trait set-ups: A solo line to slay things as quickly as possible, and a grouping line, with traits chosen to first help the group slay things as quickly as possible, and to help yourself do the same with what is left. That is my opinion, at least

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    I (no exaggeration) have an entire kin worth of members that are depending on this reply.
    No! You Strength and Honor guys cannot go! No one else will have me along for adventures anymore!
    Last edited by Valkrist; Sep 10 2013 at 04:57 PM.


    Currently running The Spirit Gauntlet, during which no fate is unimaginable...

    'Legendary' Items - Tips, Tricks, and a Guide to the 'Grind' - a Legendary Items guide! (And a new Imbuing guide! and Essence guide!)

    The Life and Times of Kaleigh Starshine: Curing insomnia, one reader at a time, and a proud resident of The Cottage of Pen and Play

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyveil View Post
    I think they're banking on the big battles system replacing raids completely and being an enjoyable option for both raiding kins and the general population.
    Raiding kins? Is there a single kinship that beat Orthanc that is still active? I consider Orthanc the last true raid. I understand that some may quibble with that.
    Adaaon (Minstrel)
    The Noldor of Arkenstone -

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by bastiat1 View Post
    Raiding kins? Is there a single kinship that beat Orthanc that is still active? I consider Orthanc the last true raid. I understand that some may quibble with that.
    The kins themselves may have fallen apart but I bet you could still find plenty of players who beat it. If BB end up being good, I'd expect to see the kins return.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v341/tindragon/Base.png[/IMG]
    Steam: Sneakeh Snake[/CENTER]

  24. #24
    I agree with many others. The use of Developer resources to fix a non-broken system was really mind blowing to me. Those resources could have built instances and raids and real content. My criticisms came very early when the possibilities of trees were first announced. I didn't really understand the Developer motivation then, but I understand it better now.

    Basically, the Devs are moving LoTRO to an increasingly more solo-focused game and audience. Soloers like level cap increases because they like the illusion of always becoming more powerful even though they are really just delivering pies and killing boars to maintain the same effectiveness. For 50, even 65 levels, LoTRO was able to get away with granting more skills and improved skills together with a little trait advancement. Eventually though the number of skills gets to be pretty ridiculous. They want to consolidate skills but doing that eliminates the advancement that the soloers like as they level up. Not to mention the emptiness of going from 85 to 95 with no real tack on. The laziest way to accommodate the soloers is to grant a paltry tree point every two levels.

    The more fundamental question should have been- why even increase the level cap? I guess that's a dumb question though given the target audience.


    p.s. If you are going to do a tree system RIFT is the one to emulate. Their system is really cool and intricate with the way it "branches" but also "roots".
    Adaaon (Minstrel)
    The Noldor of Arkenstone -

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    TN+Germany
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    Oh I'm quite sure there will be. There will always be players that break out the calculators and calculate carefully exactly which build does slightly more. Certainly there will be people saying Build X is better than Build Y, etc. But at least the number of options will be going up dramatically with the new system.

    The current system is bizarre. You get class abilities every few levels until about 50. Then around 60 or so it falls of a cliff and you go level after level after level without getting anything, it's kinda weird. Combine that with specs no one uses. How many hunters do you know that routinely use the yellow (traps) line? We have a BUNCH of hunters in my kin, and none of them use it.

    Certainly there will be people that will min/max, but the number of viable builds and sheer number of possible combinations possible will be going up dramatically. Now, I have not seen this new system in practice. So I'm not saying the system IS good--but I am saying that it COULD be good, and there are too many people that know very little about it saying how awful it is, etc. Furthermore, it is in beta and still subject to change.
    Finally a person who shares my mind referring the class revamp...

    Even if there is the "ONE BEST BUILD" it wouldn't have gone worse than now, because it is the situation like IT IS NOW.

    The revamp has the potential and possibilities to turn out good. And this is anything we know now. Everything else is speculation and pessimism isn't the right thing to think about it, at least the people should look at its POSSIBLE positive and negative sides, and not only at the negative ones...

 

 
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload