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Thread: Two Favors?

  1. #1
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    Two Favors?

    1) Please, turn off the auto flips. Is this not a "Capture the Flag" type of PvP? If one side captures a flag and the Mother of the other side comes along in the next five minutes and takes it away and gives it to her child's side? Who's the bully then?
    I know of at least four times yesterday that Lugz auto flipped back to Freep after we took it. Twice it flipped back within ten minutes.

    This isn't encouraging grouping or helping out Turbines basic design of capturing the flags in the Ettenmoors.

    2) Reinstate locks for switching from one side to the other. It's just too obvious.. Creep zerg, turn map red, then fifteen minutes later, Freep zerg, turn map Blue.
    Let's find a way to inspire folks to come out and pick a side, along with picking a nemesis. The best pvp happens when two opposing sides are fighting to capture or defend those flags. Not when they are cooperating to farm them.

    That's the only two things I'll ask for, for now. I'm actually enjoy playing my Creeps more than ever and love being the underdog. The only other thing I can think of, and this isn't a biggie, but, if you can find it in your hearts, do something about Wardens? I understand you can't ban them from the Moors but could Creeps at least have the option to Ignore them and not have to interact with them? Do I really need to expand on this subject?

    Thanks!
    Ronnug - The Blueberry Reaver on Gladden
    I don't feel a thing when dieing ingame. The only time I really mind is when the rez is on the other side of the map.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaxMaxtor View Post
    1) Please, turn off the auto flips. Is this not a "Capture the Flag" type of PvP? If one side captures a flag and the Mother of the other side comes along in the next five minutes and takes it away and gives it to her child's side? Who's the bully then?
    I know of at least four times yesterday that Lugz auto flipped back to Freep after we took it. Twice it flipped back within ten minutes.

    This isn't encouraging grouping or helping out Turbines basic design of capturing the flags in the Ettenmoors.

    2) Reinstate locks for switching from one side to the other. It's just too obvious.. Creep zerg, turn map red, then fifteen minutes later, Freep zerg, turn map Blue.
    Let's find a way to inspire folks to come out and pick a side, along with picking a nemesis. The best pvp happens when two opposing sides are fighting to capture or defend those flags. Not when they are cooperating to farm them.

    That's the only two things I'll ask for, for now. I'm actually enjoy playing my Creeps more than ever and love being the underdog. The only other thing I can think of, and this isn't a biggie, but, if you can find it in your hearts, do something about Wardens? I understand you can't ban them from the Moors but could Creeps at least have the option to Ignore them and not have to interact with them? Do I really need to expand on this subject?

    Thanks!

    First point, I can agree on. If they could design the keeps to only auto flip under certain conditions, such as one side being outnumbered for x amount of time by y amount of number, and even take into account how many on each side are grouped, that would be awesome. But I dunno if that would work.

    Second point, the locks are silly. Sure, there will be flippers. If they flip to the winning side all the time, make it plain and simple that no one likes it by not inviting them to groups or acknowledging them in chat. I believe the locks are fine now, or should even be removed. I'd say more of the time people flip to help the opposing side, or flip sides to avoid playing with people they don't get along with/wont be invited to play with, or anything similar. Now in the event of people switching sides to just zerg someone, maybe limit how many people can enter the moors on freep/creep after they'd just been on another. Such as Johnny was with Susan and Benny on freep, and see Sally. They don't like Sally and gather friends to the other side to zerg Sally.


    More and more as time goes on, and things get more stale, I'm beginning to believe pvp should be instanced. What limitations or any on what class percentages allowed I know not, but I think it would help avoid people flopping all the time.


    Now on another note, there are those of us who just simply get bored playing certain toons, or with the pvp of the game and take breaks for other things. I played reaver for a while, then wanted to try war leader. Then sashayed on over to warg. Then I tried guardian, which wasn't to my liking, then burg which was fun but not too useful for groups. Took a break to level a captain and he was plenty of fun as well. All in between going back and forth on whatever I felt like playing. Now I don't even spend much time pvping because it's so stale, and one side usually outnumbers another by a lot, and people are just tasteless about how they're holding themselves in the game now. I've taken to decorating kin houses and playing with outfits and tinkering on a champion.



    tl;dr people will keep doing it when it's not discouraged. don't play with those peeps. some are just bored or like rotating their games up, etc



    Also, any particular instances that made you bring this up?

  3. #3
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    Plus... they need to crack down on PUI's. Peepeeveeing Under Intoxication.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by the_blah View Post
    Plus... they need to crack down on PUI's. Peepeeveeing Under Intoxication.
    Sorry, had to clown;


  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeylad View Post
    Sorry, had to clown;

    HEY. This is ******* serious business. There is no place for shenanigans.
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  6. #6
    first off, Hey Ronnug!!!! i am Tauki but i no tauki because i have no wauki to tauki on

    to apply to your first point, YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!

    and to apply to your second point, yes, to a point, make it, ya know, a half hour, or hour, not too long, or too short.

    and to apply to the guy who thinks we need to get rid of intoxicated people in the moors, i say no, if the other side is intoxicated, then more kills for us!!!!

    anywho, i put in my two cents.
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  7. #7
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    I'd be content if, when the opposite side gets a group together that has a chance at victory, the opposing side stay and do battle instead of log or flop over. There were two distinct instances tonight where we could have had some nice raid vs raids, but the opposing side logged for no real reason. I'll purposely be indirect as I have no intentions of calling anyone out. But I had a raid in LC (controlled by the opposing side) in which they wiped us. When I regrouped, and pushed back out, due to someone who flopped, I was informed the opposing raid had disbanded due to losing one member. About two hours later, the opposing side once again had another group out and seemed to be faring well at TR which my faction controlled. I again, made a group (of 7), and the opposition disbanded again before I was even able to engage them once due to an autoflip at TA.

    I don't fault anyone who logs after multiple one-sided wipes, I'd do the same. But at least give it a few goes. The time between the present and the last time we had decent raid vs raid on this server continues to grow.

    I disagree with you, overall, on your stance on flopping Gunnor, as it can often lead to decent battles and balancing of numbers. But you're correct that it can be abused at times. I'd just like to see some decent fights like we once had a few months ago, when we had multiple players from various servers giving consideration to our server. We certainly haven't had many lately and those visitors have since disappeared. It's either one side or the other with the advantage, and as soon as those being farmed at a rez or keep rise up to the occasion, the opposing side buckles: Either logging off, flopping, or sitting in GV/Grams until the challenge of fighting a decent fight passes.

    I think what this server needs is persistence. I'm not advocating for sitting around and being farmed, but if that is the case, make a group, rise up to the occasion, and challenge yourselves to try to turn the tide. It happens occasionally, but it's been rather infrequent. New leaders need to come out, figure out how to lead, and make stuff happen. If we had consistent leadership on both sides of the fence, we'd have awesome battles. We certainly have the numbers on both sides. But what often happens is during prime time when both sides has many players, one side lacks a leader, while the other forms up under leadership, and the side without a leader gets wiped once or twice and 2/3 or more of their playerbase disappears.

    If anyone is tired of the lack of action during prime time or one side dominating while the other gets farmed, my best is advice is step up, and lead. It's idiotic for one side to complain about a zerg of 6-12 players on the opposing side, while possessing equal or greater numbers themselves, and stating they are unable to do anything about it because they are all solo or small grouped while the other side is consolidated into a raid and they refuse to do the same.

    I think it's best said: Group up or shut up. Step up or hush up.

    If I had a hundred hands, I still wouldn't be able to count on all my fingers how many times I've logged into a side getting farmed, consolidated the group, turned the tide, and then get cried at for zerging after 2/3 of the farmers logged after dying once. To any of those with complaints with how I lead whichever side I happen to be playing on, you're more than welcome to do the same as I, and rise up to the occasion. When it comes to complaints with how I lead one side or the other, any one reading this is just as capable as I, myself, am in getting other people to join them and do something about it. I don't always succeed and you won't either. But it doesn't hurt to try.
    Last edited by Ravyrn; Sep 12 2013 at 10:58 AM.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravyrn View Post
    I think it's best said: Group up or shut up.
    Strongly disagree. Big time strongly disagree.

    It's this attitude that made the moors into the zerg fest that RoI leaned towards, and RoR has become. People coming out into the moors or logging in and immediately asking "Group inv?" "Can I haz raid invite?" "Any groups need _____?" makes me want to slap em in the face. Like, right in the face. With a studded glove.

    "Why such violent hatred towards groups," you ask, "what's the problem with grouping up?"

    Here's the problem with grouping up. Grouping up instantly introduces a new factor into fights, the factor of focus fire. The side with more focus fire is gonna stomp all over the side that doesn't, sometimes (many times!) when the other side has more/higher ranked/better geared, you name it, players.

    But guess what? Fights are more fun when it is solo players fighting other solo players. I am saying this from the perspective of a HUNTER, which is by far the easiest killed class in the moors right now, so this is not from bias. Hell, even healers have no room to complain about roaming solo because if you heal another player just once, if you auto-attack a creep who has 99.99999% of his health gone, you get the SAME amount of infamy as the guy who did that 99.9999%. There is ZERO reason not to solo. Zero reason.

    Why is it more fun when solo players are fighting each other? Because it's a challenge for both sides. Say you're on freepside. You don't know how the fight is going, because you don't have a little tab open with every single freep out there on it, with their hp and where they are. You don't know if the tide is about to turn or not. You're just fighting for your life, however and whatever that means for your specific class. The same thing goes for the other side.

    Now flip it. There's a group on one side, and a group on the other. One has poor focus fire, the other has fantastic. The poor focus fire group starts wiping. People see that their fellows are dying. Panic settles in as the inevitable and traumatic thing called "incapacitation" approaches. You know that if you die in this video game, you will cry for days. And you're on your last box of Kleenex. So what do you do once you see 4 little "dead" boxes on that fellowship tab? You break for the hills, screaming for npcs.

    If you're not in a group, you can't solely rely on leaders telling you what to do, when to retreat, when to push, etc. You have to figure it out by yourself. That is the single most challenging aspect of PvP, and that is why the best raid leaders in this game are also usually the best players, period. Because they have to figure it out by themselves on the go, and tell others what to do. And because they have developed that skill, they are a better player for it.

    People need to stop relying on groups in the moors. Grow some balls, and get out there and fight. Play your part. Heal people who appear to be dying by watching the action, not staring at the ezmode tab on the side of the screen. Kill the scary things that are killing your friends by figuring out which freep/creep should die first, not simply staring at the raid assist box until the dps target picks a new one. Support your side by handing out buffs, SI, whatever.

    I understand that raiding is a key part of the PvP in this game, and I'm not saying everything should always be solo players v solo players. In fact, raiding is where I learned plenty of PvP skills that I probably wouldn't have learned elsewhere. But raiding doesn't teach you the basic concepts that make up a good PvP player, and that's why we have SO MANY poor players out there nowadays. Y'all are too lazy to step up and get out of the slump of having a raid leader hold your hand through every fight.

    It's not "Group up or shut up." out there. It's "Group up and shut up." I RARELY see players who join raids a lot form raids of their own (Philladeas is a notable exception). Why? Because they don't know how to. Because the raid leaders who are out there are not teaching players to develop skill, they're teaching players to become button-mashing raid robots, with no concept of how to lead raids of their own. "Go here, click that, kill that." "Congrats guys, we won the moors, we took 5 keeps and are now camping the 3 ungrouped creeps at grams."

    Gee, the next time I come out here, should I run around solo and have a chance at dying, or should I sit in GV until I get in a group so I can kill things with a far smaller chance of dying? Hmmm.... the choice is SO hard.

    There's a point where raids simply cannot teach a player anything more. That's when a player needs to start soloing and learning how to take care of themselves. It's like taking the sucker out of the baby's mouth. FEED HIM REAL FOOD. NO MOAR BABY FOOD.







    Yeah, I ranted.
    RIP Milkmefondly 2014

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Strongly disagree. Big time strongly disagree.

    It's this attitude that made the moors into the zerg fest that RoI leaned towards, and RoR has become. People coming out into the moors or logging in and immediately asking "Group inv?" "Can I haz raid invite?" "Any groups need _____?" makes me want to slap em in the face. Like, right in the face. With a studded glove.

    "Why such violent hatred towards groups," you ask, "what's the problem with grouping up?"

    Here's the problem with grouping up. Grouping up instantly introduces a new factor into fights, the factor of focus fire. The side with more focus fire is gonna stomp all over the side that doesn't, sometimes (many times!) when the other side has more/higher ranked/better geared, you name it, players.

    But guess what? Fights are more fun when it is solo players fighting other solo players. I am saying this from the perspective of a HUNTER, which is by far the easiest killed class in the moors right now, so this is not from bias. Hell, even healers have no room to complain about roaming solo because if you heal another player just once, if you auto-attack a creep who has 99.99999% of his health gone, you get the SAME amount of infamy as the guy who did that 99.9999%. There is ZERO reason not to solo. Zero reason.

    Why is it more fun when solo players are fighting each other? Because it's a challenge for both sides. Say you're on freepside. You don't know how the fight is going, because you don't have a little tab open with every single freep out there on it, with their hp and where they are. You don't know if the tide is about to turn or not. You're just fighting for your life, however and whatever that means for your specific class. The same thing goes for the other side.

    Now flip it. There's a group on one side, and a group on the other. One has poor focus fire, the other has fantastic. The poor focus fire group starts wiping. People see that their fellows are dying. Panic settles in as the inevitable and traumatic thing called "incapacitation" approaches. You know that if you die in this video game, you will cry for days. And you're on your last box of Kleenex. So what do you do once you see 4 little "dead" boxes on that fellowship tab? You break for the hills, screaming for npcs.

    If you're not in a group, you can't solely rely on leaders telling you what to do, when to retreat, when to push, etc. You have to figure it out by yourself. That is the single most challenging aspect of PvP, and that is why the best raid leaders in this game are also usually the best players, period. Because they have to figure it out by themselves on the go, and tell others what to do. And because they have developed that skill, they are a better player for it.

    People need to stop relying on groups in the moors. Grow some balls, and get out there and fight. Play your part. Heal people who appear to be dying by watching the action, not staring at the ezmode tab on the side of the screen. Kill the scary things that are killing your friends by figuring out which freep/creep should die first, not simply staring at the raid assist box until the dps target picks a new one. Support your side by handing out buffs, SI, whatever.

    I understand that raiding is a key part of the PvP in this game, and I'm not saying everything should always be solo players v solo players. In fact, raiding is where I learned plenty of PvP skills that I probably wouldn't have learned elsewhere. But raiding doesn't teach you the basic concepts that make up a good PvP player, and that's why we have SO MANY poor players out there nowadays. Y'all are too lazy to step up and get out of the slump of having a raid leader hold your hand through every fight.

    It's not "Group up or shut up." out there. It's "Group up and shut up." I RARELY see players who join raids a lot form raids of their own (Philladeas is a notable exception). Why? Because they don't know how to. Because the raid leaders who are out there are not teaching players to develop skill, they're teaching players to become button-mashing raid robots, with no concept of how to lead raids of their own. "Go here, click that, kill that." "Congrats guys, we won the moors, we took 5 keeps and are now camping the 3 ungrouped creeps at grams."

    Gee, the next time I come out here, should I run around solo and have a chance at dying, or should I sit in GV until I get in a group so I can kill things with a far smaller chance of dying? Hmmm.... the choice is SO hard.

    There's a point where raids simply cannot teach a player anything more. That's when a player needs to start soloing and learning how to take care of themselves. It's like taking the sucker out of the baby's mouth. FEED HIM REAL FOOD. NO MOAR BABY FOOD.







    Yeah, I ranted.
    I agree with a lot of what you said. Yeah, people certainly shouldn't sit around at GV or Grams and wait for a raid to form. A lot is to be learned from solo'ing and there certainly aren't as many people who do so these days. However, it is an MMORPG. When the action is good solo and small group, obviously a raid shouldn't be formed. Generally when I form up a raid it is in response to the camping of a rez or if I'm in a small group and the other side proves too tough to kill, I will add numbers as needed. You say RoI was a zergfest, and it certainly was, but it wasn't due to people grouping up. Practically every freep camping rez circles during the 2nd half of RoI were doing so solo. Creeps had no choice but to group up. Their not doing so and making absolutely no effort other than to complain is what caused the rez camps to last HOURS. Of course, as soon as a raid leader got on creepside, and wiped the freeps at the rez, over 2/3 of them would disappear from the Moors. It's a two-way street in this argument, as those freeps camping that rez certainly didn't learn anything other than how to smash dps buttons.

    Again, I disagree with your assertion that grouping up is the attitude that made RoI a zergfest. It certainly wasn't grouping up, as 99.99999% of the time the rez camps were solo freeps camping solo creeps. I daresay, it's your suggestion of not grouping up, that made RoI the zergfest that it was. There was, probably on average, 20-25 freeps camping creeps in a rez for several hours at a time, all solo. I don't know how many times I'd make a raid with maybe 1/2 their numbers, come from behind, and decimate the ungrouped freeps only to have almost all of them log instantly upon realizing the ezmode farmfest was over.

    The real issue is persistence. If someone dies, figure out what went wrong, and fix it. Retreat, dust yourself off, and go back out and try it again. That's especially what I do when leading raids and getting consistently stomped. I'll have the raid take a 5 minute break, go outside and puff a cigar, and try to figure out why the raid is getting stomped and what changes we can make in strategy to correct it.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bond007 View Post
    Strongly disagree. Big time strongly disagree.

    It's this attitude that made the moors into the zerg fest that RoI leaned towards, and RoR has become. People coming out into the moors or logging in and immediately asking "Group inv?" "Can I haz raid invite?" "Any groups need _____?" makes me want to slap em in the face. Like, right in the face. With a studded glove.

    "Why such violent hatred towards groups," you ask, "what's the problem with grouping up?"

    Here's the problem with grouping up. Grouping up instantly introduces a new factor into fights, the factor of focus fire. The side with more focus fire is gonna stomp all over the side that doesn't, sometimes (many times!) when the other side has more/higher ranked/better geared, you name it, players.

    But guess what? Fights are more fun when it is solo players fighting other solo players. I am saying this from the perspective of a HUNTER, which is by far the easiest killed class in the moors right now, so this is not from bias. Hell, even healers have no room to complain about roaming solo because if you heal another player just once, if you auto-attack a creep who has 99.99999% of his health gone, you get the SAME amount of infamy as the guy who did that 99.9999%. There is ZERO reason not to solo. Zero reason.

    Why is it more fun when solo players are fighting each other? Because it's a challenge for both sides. Say you're on freepside. You don't know how the fight is going, because you don't have a little tab open with every single freep out there on it, with their hp and where they are. You don't know if the tide is about to turn or not. You're just fighting for your life, however and whatever that means for your specific class. The same thing goes for the other side.

    Now flip it. There's a group on one side, and a group on the other. One has poor focus fire, the other has fantastic. The poor focus fire group starts wiping. People see that their fellows are dying. Panic settles in as the inevitable and traumatic thing called "incapacitation" approaches. You know that if you die in this video game, you will cry for days. And you're on your last box of Kleenex. So what do you do once you see 4 little "dead" boxes on that fellowship tab? You break for the hills, screaming for npcs.

    If you're not in a group, you can't solely rely on leaders telling you what to do, when to retreat, when to push, etc. You have to figure it out by yourself. That is the single most challenging aspect of PvP, and that is why the best raid leaders in this game are also usually the best players, period. Because they have to figure it out by themselves on the go, and tell others what to do. And because they have developed that skill, they are a better player for it.

    People need to stop relying on groups in the moors. Grow some balls, and get out there and fight. Play your part. Heal people who appear to be dying by watching the action, not staring at the ezmode tab on the side of the screen. Kill the scary things that are killing your friends by figuring out which freep/creep should die first, not simply staring at the raid assist box until the dps target picks a new one. Support your side by handing out buffs, SI, whatever.

    I understand that raiding is a key part of the PvP in this game, and I'm not saying everything should always be solo players v solo players. In fact, raiding is where I learned plenty of PvP skills that I probably wouldn't have learned elsewhere. But raiding doesn't teach you the basic concepts that make up a good PvP player, and that's why we have SO MANY poor players out there nowadays. Y'all are too lazy to step up and get out of the slump of having a raid leader hold your hand through every fight.

    It's not "Group up or shut up." out there. It's "Group up and shut up." I RARELY see players who join raids a lot form raids of their own (Philladeas is a notable exception). Why? Because they don't know how to. Because the raid leaders who are out there are not teaching players to develop skill, they're teaching players to become button-mashing raid robots, with no concept of how to lead raids of their own. "Go here, click that, kill that." "Congrats guys, we won the moors, we took 5 keeps and are now camping the 3 ungrouped creeps at grams."

    Gee, the next time I come out here, should I run around solo and have a chance at dying, or should I sit in GV until I get in a group so I can kill things with a far smaller chance of dying? Hmmm.... the choice is SO hard.

    There's a point where raids simply cannot teach a player anything more. That's when a player needs to start soloing and learning how to take care of themselves. It's like taking the sucker out of the baby's mouth. FEED HIM REAL FOOD. NO MOAR BABY FOOD.







    Yeah, I ranted.
    This ^. It is true that this sort of mentality can breed a zergling mentality. Too much of something is not a good thing in this case. One must have a balanced mindset, lest they become a hopeless zergling.
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