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  1. #1

    Class revamps will be short-lived?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    Q3: Leixy: Using war-steeds as a template, how will trait points be earned and spent on trait trees? #LOTRO
    A3: HoarseDev: You’ll earn a point every other level. You’ll also earn points from some deeds. #LOTRO
    Each class will have a set amount of points to allocate to skills at level cap. The expansion after helms deep (assuming lotro doesn't die) will likely have a level increase. More points = more skills to put points into. This means classes can specialize & fill a more general role (which they are trying to move away from with this tree). Does this mean that this whole trait tree will be moot in a year or two (lol if lotro makes it that far) and another revamp will occur?

    This whole revamp feels like a "we are taking things away only for us to give them back when you buy our next expansion" plot. Anyone else feel the same way?

  2. #2
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    I don't have a lot of confidence that the implementation will be balanced or well thought out. It is possible they will remove a bunch of skills and give them back to us as "Improved Improved" next expansion. It is going to be a glorious train wreck (like mounted combat). I'm looking forward to it

  3. #3
    10 levels = 5 pts, not exactly enough to break the bank. And they're likely to add another level to the existing trees for lvl 105. If you choose to get whatever skill they add that'll take care of your pts, if you choose to spend them in an off spec(at double the cost significantly mitigating skill inflation), then you can regain some of that flexibility everyone is afraid they're losing.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    This whole revamp feels like a "we are taking things away only for us to give them back when you buy our next expansion" plot. Anyone else feel the same way?
    Well, kind of. More like a lot of people want to have something new with raised cap, and adding good new skills in the current system becomes harder each time. Point system makes cap-raises easier to handle (for devs). And of course "revamp" is always good for marketing, no matter how stupid the changes are (that's a general statement).
    Mind, by the information we have yet, ten more levels would give us 5 more points (on top of the 50-70 we probably have at 95). If I remember right they said that traiting something not in your primary chosen spec is more expensive, so these extra points will likely only result in taking one or maybe two extra off-spec skills. Plus they can still (re)add more options to the trees later for spending your points.
    All in all, this won't be a reason to scratch the system anytime soon. There may be other reasons for it to be scapped though, like a major drop in player population.
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  5. #5
    It took the designers at Blizzard four major iterations to realise that a system like this probably doesn't scale indefinitely.
    If we project this rate onto LotRO we might make it to the gates of Mordor before another revamp is in order

    Instead of the forest I would've liked one new trait category for each expansion after Mirkwood : Dunland traits, Eastern Rohan traits and now Western Rohan traits and so on.
    But I understand the forest offers more direct feedback for the user (that's us) while leveling.
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  6. #6
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    Passives back and more specialized class bias stats effect (so that a guard is always a tank proper etc) and don't touch my skills other than removing tiny pointless self-buffs that eat resources when they pop in a raid. A buffer class is a buffer class. A debuffer is a debuffer. A phys/tact dps is a phys/tact dps, a melee is a melee, a healer is a healer. This is the spoken intention, the reason given. Remaking the lot is just waste of time/resources and potentially a can of worms for imbalance/rebalance/bugfixes --- I do not see why.

  7. #7
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    I have so much confidence in Turbine getting this to work right that I have shelved all but one character and been developing a load of new characters in SOE's Vanguard MMO ready for when they are needed!

  8. #8
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    If I read the dev Q&A correctly, the trait points will be tied more to deeds and previously acquired virtues than to leveling, but I could be wrong.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger53 View Post
    If I read the dev Q&A correctly, the trait points will be tied more to deeds and previously acquired virtues than to leveling, but I could be wrong.
    Virtues have nothing to do with this. You get trait points from class deeds and from levels, when both maxed at level 95 it will probably be a 1:2 split for points from class deeds : levels going by the info we have so far (40-50 points from levels and 20-25 points from class-deeds).
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
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  10. #10
    Ahh, what? I guess I should have followed development a little bit more. Point system? What? Do I get a refund on the dozens of gold pieces I spent buying the ranged gambits that I have never really used but liked to know were there?

    I really like being able to tank or dps, and I have gear for both and some gear down the middle (seriously, I need increased bank space lol), and ya, I never used ranged but ranged DPS if I wanted to as well. Points...yuck.

    Might be back to DDO sooner than I would have thought.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    (lol if lotro makes it that far)
    What will stop them from making it that far?
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    What will stop them from making it that far?
    Messing up the class revamps badly enough.

  13. #13
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    I would imagine, or at least hope, that Turbine has future expansions in mind with this class/trait revamp. So long as it is not like Warsteeds, where we essentially max every tree as is, then there should be space to acquire an additional 5 points per expansion going forward. There is also the possibility of adding additional ranks to traits, depending on the nature of the traits.

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  14. #14
    They'll simply expand the trees a little

    Every MMO handles it like this

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris91 View Post
    They'll simply expand the trees a little

    Every MMO handles it like this
    Ya, but we aren't all just loving this MMO because it is Middle Earth are we? I mean, if I want to distribute points there are games I can play that do not require me to kill 300 elite trolls for a point in Zeal.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
    Messing up the class revamps badly enough.
    Turbine knows what they are doing. Have faith.
    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
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  17. #17
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    The class revamps are badly needed. When LOTRO first came out I knew the skill system was broken.. no way to improve the same skill, new skills every few levels.. that system is obviously not scalable. I have always wanted more dynamic skills, which is what a skill tree should give us (hopefully, if they're doing it right - I haven't seen the fine details yet).
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  18. #18
    Is it that time of year again when people start yelling "The sky is falling!"?
    I like how people are basing their opinions off of the very little information that we have been given. Do you know why just about every other MMO has trait trees, and Turbine has decided to go along with it? Because they work .The current system that we have now, does not work.
    Please, lets wait until we actually see and use the trait trees before we start saying that they will "destroy Lotro". Which it won't.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrolas View Post
    Is it that time of year again when people start yelling "The sky is falling!"?
    I like how people are basing their opinions off of the very little information that we have been given. Do you know why just about every other MMO has trait trees, and Turbine has decided to go along with it? Because they work .The current system that we have now, does not work.
    Please, lets wait until we actually see and use the trait trees before we start saying that they will "destroy Lotro". Which it won't.
    I think most people are basing their opinions on Turbine's abysmal record of 'improvements'!

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Turbine knows what they are doing. Have faith.
    Say that with a straight face to all the Warden players who logged in immediately after RoI dropped. Remember how broken the class was back then?

    Say it again to all the Warden players who stacked might (including spending TP on stat tomes), only to have their primary stat changed MID-EXPANSION.

    And lets not forget the recent power/IPCR 'adjustment' fiasco.
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by q945 View Post
    Say that with a straight face to all the Warden players who logged in immediately after RoI dropped. Remember how broken the class was back then?

    Say it again to all the Warden players who stacked might (including spending TP on stat tomes), only to have their primary stat changed MID-EXPANSION.

    And lets not forget the recent power/IPCR 'adjustment' fiasco.
    Ya, thankfully I was close to a gear split and I never bought the tomes. I am not optimistic about my favourite character (the Warden) going into HD. This is going out on a limb, if they somehow change the way the Warden plays it will be bad, very bad, unless - and this is a crazy idea, they make them just like the Amazons from Diablo 2. Then I will be in true love and never leave LotRO because that class has kept me play D2 until this day and guess why I picked the Warden as my first class when I came to LotRO (with Moria)?

    I really like the way the warden plays right now, it is easily my favourite class, but like I said, I am very worried, and no I do not have faith in any developer that they will fix things. The only games where things get fixed are single player games that can be modded.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitering View Post
    Ya, thankfully I was close to a gear split and I never bought the tomes. I am not optimistic about my favourite character (the Warden) going into HD. This is going out on a limb, if they somehow change the way the Warden plays it will be bad, very bad, unless - and this is a crazy idea, they make them just like the Amazons from Diablo 2. Then I will be in true love and never leave LotRO because that class has kept me play D2 until this day and guess why I picked the Warden as my first class when I came to LotRO (with Moria)?

    I really like the way the warden plays right now, it is easily my favourite class, but like I said, I am very worried, and no I do not have faith in any developer that they will fix things. The only games where things get fixed are single player games that can be modded.
    I hope they get the warden right the first time through this. Turbine's track record would suggest otherwise though. At least the class was god-mode for the past 18 months. It will be interesting to see how this is implemented. Most skill trees in other games gate skills behind advancement in the tree. If I'm traited too far down shield line do I lose my higher tier spear gambits? What happens when I perform a gambit that isn't available but still an actual gambit. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.

  23. #23
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    To me at least, the current traits work the exact same way as current WoW traits. There are a couple of things that make some skills better, but for the most part they are all needed depending on the spec you use. I have always liked the tree format even way back to Diablo 2. I don't really understand all the issues about not having 100% of all your skills. I've only played a mini and burg to higher levels, and they don't have all there skills accessable without traiting either. Take War-speech for example, you basically have 3 sets of skills: always on, with WS, and without WS. Same with the stance/traits for burg. I think the trees will work fine.

  24. #24
    Yes, but my concern is that they will work just like the mount trees, with no gambits at all.

  25. #25
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    It's too late in the game to revamp classes and change the skill and trait dynamic. How about release raids that are worth a ...., instead of skirmishes that you decided to call raids...

    Also, fix the lag in the moors.

    If this class revamp goes live, I'm done with this game. It'll be the excuse I needed to go pick up a new game.
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