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  1. #101
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    Jan 2011
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    Massachusetts
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post

    Not so recent. When LOTRO released, it had maybe 80% soloable content and 20% group-oriented content. The solo content was mostly vanilla kill quests, FedX quests, etc, and the group content was a split of normal quests and instances. Zero raids when they launched, but they did add 2 in the first year the game was out (when their development pace was easily 3X what it is now - they had a full game development team working on things at first).

    Khafar
    Having less resources is not a good enough excuse for selling xpacs for the same price and delivering less. If I spend 40$ on last years xpac and 40$ on this years xpac the quality should not go down. If they are having these types of problems why not sell the xpac for 15.99$ ? And what are the problems since you keep reminding us that there is less a development team and they want to spend less on the content? Less players? Less paying players?

  2. #102
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Having less resources is not a good enough excuse for selling xpacs for the same price and delivering less.
    I have no idea if it'll be "less" or not. They say 5 regions, although I'd expect those to be smallish to fit within western Rohan at the scale they've been doing. Hundreds of quests are a given. Epic Battles, which are likely to be quite expensive to build (likely a fair amount more than a raid since it's new tech + new compelling content + scalable both for group size and level) and which didn't exist in Rohan.

    If I spend 40$ on last years xpac and 40$ on this years xpac the quality should not go down.
    Look. Not everyone is going to be equally pleased with each selection of features. I have zero use for endgame raids or instances, yet I've paid for those repeatedly. This time, I'm actually getting something I care about (while some other players might not be).

    And what are the problems since you keep reminding us that there is less a development team and they want to spend less on the content?
    You misunderstand. Games under development for initial launch often have well over 100 people working on them. Sometimes even "hundreds". That huge team is required in order to create the game from scratch in 3 or 4 years, complete with thousands of quests, numerous instances, tons of game systems that have to be invented as they go. When LOTRO first launched, that huge team kept on working on the game for a short time, trying to get it off to a great start. And because of that, they were able to deliver 2 raids, some instances, two new regions with hundreds of new quests, housing, a faction system, and lots of other stuff... all in about 9 months.

    Long-term, the live team is never going to be that large (and it isn't). Nor can it possibly deliver new features and content at such a blistering pace.

    Khafar

  3. #103
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    Jul 2011
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    921
    Quote Originally Posted by Minquinn View Post
    Having less resources is not a good enough excuse for selling xpacs for the same price and delivering less. If I spend 40$ on last years xpac and 40$ on this years xpac the quality should not go down. If they are having these types of problems why not sell the xpac for 15.99$ ? And what are the problems since you keep reminding us that there is less a development team and they want to spend less on the content? Less players? Less paying players?
    I don't really see the less content for me. 5 zones same as rohan. 6 Instances for me (5 solo/duo, + 1 3 man that is probably duoable) Rohan: Three duoable 3 mans. I tend to ignore anything that is not duoable.
    Mind you that is just for me and i obviously have no clue how good the instances will really be. Just for quantity there does not seem to be less in it for me than there was in Rohan though.
    In fact the only thing that i'm still wary about is the class changes.
    Nothing here matters.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post

    Was Mounted Combat even more effort? Perhaps it was. But nearly everyone with a character of that level is going to make use of MC. That's almost certainly why they're developing Epic Battles to span more play styles... they get more "Return On Investment" even if the costs are higher.



    Khafar

    Would any of us done Mounted combat if we weren't forced to do it to continue on progressing? Especially after you mounted up and the horse was uncontrollable. I know once i didn't need it anymore I was off that dizzifing thing After i got all the warband tokens i needed to get my pocket item I was off that horse. it was crazy bad. I fought about 75% of warbands on foot, it was faster that way..

  5. #105
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    Feb 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaGere View Post
    Would any of us done Mounted combat if we weren't forced to do it to continue on progressing?
    Eh. The control scheme on those was pretty bad, but 30 years of gaming has taught me how to adapt to pretty much anything in a hurry (from flight simulators with a bazillion key mappings to games like Assassin's Creed with it's multiple simultaneous keypresses to accomplish certain skills, to variances in the hundreds of shooters and RPGs I've played - all on a keyboard). After about a week, I was controlling my new mount fine. Of course, I tend to play in the wee hours of the morning, so I typically have to deal with less lag effects than some people do.

    Khafar

  6. #106
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Eh. The control scheme on those was pretty bad, but 30 years of gaming has taught me how to adapt to pretty much anything in a hurry (from flight simulators with a bazillion key mappings to games like Assassin's Creed with it's multiple simultaneous keypresses to accomplish certain skills, to variances in the hundreds of shooters and RPGs I've played - all on a keyboard). After about a week, I was controlling my new mount fine. Of course, I tend to play in the wee hours of the morning, so I typically have to deal with less lag effects than some people do.

    Khafar
    But the key is manuverability, it was made passive trait once Mounted Combat got revamped.

    Also why not ANY mounted combat raids? I find this absurd the content for Mounted Combat was minimum which only included some quests and warbands thats it, severly underused system that cost a lot to implement correctly.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    But the key is manuverability, it was made passive trait once Mounted Combat got revamped.

    Also why not ANY mounted combat raids? I find this absurd the content for Mounted Combat was minimum which only included some quests and warbands thats it, severly underused system that cost a lot to implement correctly.

    Would you have really done it? i know i couldn't get far enough away from this mechanic fast enough. I got tired of riding in between a house and a fence because it refused to turn or jumping a fence and riding off to be rubberbanded back a few seconds later. It needs much work and turbine has decided that we don't need raids anymore. ToO expensive.
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Look. Not everyone is going to be equally pleased with each selection of features. I have zero use for endgame raids or instances, yet I've paid for those repeatedly. This time, I'm actually getting something I care about (while some other players might not be).
    The difference here is that you cannot buy the Expansion piecemeal, so players cannot simply choose the pieces they want (e.g. quest pack).

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post

    Look. Not everyone is going to be equally pleased with each selection of features. I have zero use for endgame raids or instances, yet I've paid for those repeatedly. This time, I'm actually getting something I care about (while some other players might not be).



    Khafar

    In the past you could have easily bought only the questpacks you wanted and not bought the instances/raids. But one of the many,many reasons not to pre-order is you buy junk you just don't want. This expansion on the other hand has put all the junk in with the content so you have to buy it all(at this point we don't know if you can just buy the quest pack with out buying epics and little battles). Some of us hope there is a split because I would just stop doing epics until the next expansion when hopefully they get it back to normal.
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  10. #110
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    Feb 2007
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    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyFunker View Post
    The difference here is that you cannot buy the Expansion piecemeal, so players cannot simply choose the pieces they want (e.g. quest pack).
    I couldn't buy Moria or Mirkwood piecemeal either, yet they had raids and instances in them that I couldn't care less about. And of course, if I want the pre-order goodies (and I have before), you need to pay full price and get it all.

    Would it be better if we could always buy each feature we want a la carte, including pre-order bonuses? Sure. But that was almost certainly part of the reason Epic Battles were changed to appeal to a broader set of players (so they could justify selling it all as a bundle)... if too many people "opt out" and just get the quest pack or just get Epic Batttles, Turbine's revenues will almost certainly be a lot lower. Very few for-profit companies are going to make choices they know will lower their revenues.

    Khafar

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by LaGere View Post
    turbine has decided that we don't need raids anymore. ToO expensive.
    No, Turbine decided that the raid mechanic was not the right one for telling the story in THIS xpac. At no time have they said there will never be a new raid.
    I like ice cream.

  12. #112
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    Oct 2013
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    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Very few for-profit companies are going to make choices they know will lower their revenues.

    Khafar
    in fact every company with principles and or moral will do that ... whats the point anyway? I am not okay witht a world where
    the only thing you can reliy on is the fact that companys (people in charge) will do any and everything to you, your families
    and the society in a whole to not being forced to lower their revenues

    till my last breath I will act against this set of mind and thought because it is the root of all evil, cruelty and perversion in this wolrd,
    it starts here on the internet and ends with people dying for diamonds, uran or while building a stadion for the olympic games

    the devs of this ganme are extremly hostile to the players of this game, they dont allow much fun or activity aside grind
    or cash.purchases ... and your only argument to accept all this is, because its lotro, wich where a great game 3 years ago?

    I am working hard for my money, much harder then the people at turbine, why shoud they deserve it more then me,
    just because I allow them to let me play their mediocre game on my machine and my broadband ?

    what I wrote may make you think a bit (more) and considering an optional way to what we are stuck with now here.

  13. #113
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    65
    If I want to play a single-player game - I play Skyrim, not LOTRO
    Because Skyrim is MUCH cheaper, has better graphics, moddability and doesn`t include lore-breaking magic users running around killing orks with lightning magic (strong emphasis on lore-breaking part).

    So stop turning LOTRO into a single-player game - you are not going to fare well against Bethesda and Bioware on that field.
    Don't join dangerous cults: Practice safe sects!

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    if too many people "opt out" and just get the quest pack or just get Epic Battles, Turbine's revenues will almost certainly be a lot lower. Very few for-profit companies are going to make choices they know will lower their revenues.
    If Turbine feels too many people are opting out of the content they make, perhaps the first impulse should be to change where they are investing their resources to match demand, as opposed to trying to force players to buy all or nothing?

    Back on topic, I agree with the OP's sentiment. I consider myself a pretty casual player, but also one who sees group-based content as the most attractive end-game component. Having hit level cap on my main a month or so back, there really isn't much incentive to keep playing otherwise. Without being in an instance, the only real threat to my character's survival is my tendency to impatiently jump over cliffs without checking the distance, and if there is nothing to do that relies on skill... then aren't I just sitting in pretty looking chat-room watching lights fly out of my bow? Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's not for me.

  15. #115
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    Jul 2011
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    921
    Quote Originally Posted by the-undying View Post
    company with principles and or moral will do that
    That's an oxymoron if i ever heard one.

    Quote Originally Posted by the-undying View Post
    the devs of this ganme are extremly hostile to the players of this game, they dont allow much fun or activity aside grind
    or cash.purchases ... and your only argument to accept all this is, because its lotro, wich where a great game 3 years ago?
    I know i know it's hard to accept but not everyone thinks the game is worse than 3 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by the-undying View Post
    I am working hard for my money, much harder then the people at turbine, why shoud they deserve it more then me,
    just because I allow them to let me play their mediocre game on my machine and my broadband ?

    Besides the holier than thou attitude and unproven claim, is there a turbine employee with a gun sitting behind you forcing you to pay and play ?

    Quote Originally Posted by the-undying View Post
    what I wrote may make you think a bit (more) and considering an optional way to what we are stuck with now here.
    Well i'm thinking 3/10.
    Nothing here matters.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Feraxks View Post
    No, Turbine decided that the raid mechanic was not the right one for telling the story in THIS xpac. At no time have they said there will never be a new raid.

    Knowing this company like you think you do, do you ever see them going back? I think the hand writings on the wall at this point. I don't believe they will ever go back to making epics for free, it will never be right for telling the story.
    Mean what you say and say what you mean! If you don't there are always consequences!

  17. #117
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    Apr 2007
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    Gallifrey. I need a Jelly Baby.
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    18,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Olfaran View Post
    If I want to play a single-player game - I play Skyrim, not LOTRO
    Because Skyrim is MUCH cheaper, has better graphics, moddability and doesn`t include lore-breaking magic users running around killing orks with lightning magic (strong emphasis on lore-breaking part).

    So stop turning LOTRO into a single-player game - you are not going to fare well against Bethesda and Bioware on that field.

    Single player gaming has been in MMOs since at least Ultima Online in the late 90s. I saw players all the time doing their own thing like house decorating, getting gold, harvesting hides from animals and so on. It's just now that the MMO genre, not only Turbine, is seeing that and changing to meet that playstyle. Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft, same thing. And Age of Conan.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  18. #118
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    Jun 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Single player gaming has been in MMOs since at least Ultima Online in the late 90s. I saw players all the time doing their own thing like house decorating, getting gold, harvesting hides from animals and so on. It's just now that the MMO genre, not only Turbine, is seeing that and changing to meet that playstyle. Star Wars Galaxies and World of Warcraft, same thing. And Age of Conan.
    Yes the single-player aspect has been in MMOs for a long time, I think he means the multi-player aspect in that area I can see MMOs mixing tech well and making even more breathtaking epic group moments.

    Turbine has a track record for making GOOD multi-player games

 

 
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