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  1. #1

    On a Positive Note

    So I know that a good part of the feelings of the community is dread as far as the changes in lotro. They're changing the skill trees (thereby causing everyone to relearn their class), no more raids, and just overall huge changes to what we used to know. I've usually been doubtful of what new expansions bring, as often kinships turnover a good part of their population from expansion to expansion. I've been playing lotro since it went f2p back at 65, and it seems that anticipation isn't as high for HD since RoR/Wildermore did not meet expectations (only 1 raid cluster, no instance released with wildermore, gold gear endless grinding (especially kills me with multiple alts), no locks allowing for mindless eternal grinding (and reducing interest in scheduled kin raids), early FA release signalling the end of that level cap). I figure that the major reason for that was because there were major overhauls taking up most of the resources (mounted combat for RoR, preparation for HD when wildermore was being finished).

    Anyway, here's my thoughts on some of the good aspects of the expansion: (some views may have been said already, but didnt want them to get lost in the threads of others)

    1) Skill Trees - changing from selected traits to trees will help in the long run (and yes will be crazy). Since lvl 65 (when I joined), there's always been new skills with each expansion, and only modifications of the already limited class trait slots. So while more and more skills were added, modifications to them were limited based on skills (unless expanded in updated traits)

    2) Raid/Instance expectations - it appears that with only one 12-man Big Battle release, and the announcement that FA's will be unavailable with release, that is GREAT news in the sense that we can then expect a future instance/big-battle release in the future. I love multiple raids per expansion pack and while there was only one raid cluster with RoR, I hope the future cluster will have 5+ 12-man wings/instances.

    This stuff probably has been said before by other people, but I just wanted to give my 2 cents as to why HD could be a great expansion for the future.

  2. #2
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    I appreciate your optimism and I am normally an optimist myself, but the sweeping class changes make me cringe. I have experienced sweeping class changes twice now in other MMO games (Horizon and WoW) and in neither case did I end up liking my character more after the changes. No matter what spin the PR team puts on the class changes, my prior experience has been that I have less skills and fewer choices afterwards.
    There has been little information released to date regarding the class changes coming with HD, but they have already made comments that indicate that all classes will be capped at no more than 20 base skills. Other skills will presumably be gated by your skill tree selections and some skills will disappear entirely.
    Since I presently have very few limitations regarding skills (just the capstone skills are gated) this is going to be a net loss for every player and every class.
    I have never found that reducing my capabilities and choices results in an improvement in my game experience.

    I AM looking forward to experiencing the expansion region, the new combat system for battles and the HD content. I like the level cap increase to 95 so I can feel my characters are 'advancing' again.

    I hope I am wrong and somehow Turbine finds a way to provide me with flexability, and skills that are fun and maintain the game play of the classes that I love, but I admit to being dubious.

  3. #3
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    Well, changes are a part of any MMO in existence. I used to Nerd rage at changes, but over the years I learned that changes are just in the nature of MMOs as they get older.

    Reminds me of when I was in the Marine Corps in a tank battalion the word came down that the M 60 tank was going to be replaced by the Abrams. Boy, did every one throw a fit.

    Come to think of it, the M 60 tank that I spent so much time inside repairing radio equipment is now in a museum. Let's not even get started on the non digital radios I repaired.......
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Well, changes are a part of any MMO in existence. I used to Nerd rage at changes, but over the years I learned that changes are just in the nature of MMOs as they get older.

    Reminds me of when I was in the Marine Corps in a tank battalion the word came down that the M 60 tank was going to be replaced by the Abrams. Boy, did every one throw a fit.

    Come to think of it, the M 60 tank that I spent so much time inside repairing radio equipment is now in a museum. Let's not even get started on the non digital radios I repaired.......
    Totally agree. You adapt and move on.

    I wish the ships I served on were in a museum, instead, the razor blades they were made into have already turned into rust...

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Changes i dont mind. Generally speaking i adapt very well to whatever is thrown at me. However, the bigger the change....the higher your chances run of NGE'ing your game into oblivion. I just dont want that to happen here. that always seems to linger at the edge of my mind anytime i hear about something like this.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
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    I think there's a lot of fear, uncertainty, and doubt being spread over minor comments and its kind of ridiculous. Classes are going to change, but its pretty clear they're spreading around the dedicated healer, tank, buffer, debuffer, and damage roles. This will make it easier to form groups to do group content. Yes, some classes are going to lose their special snowflake status, and half the buttons on your bar are going to disappear, and certain jack of all trades builds are going to not be possible any longer--but in light of the positives to grouping the changes are going to make I don't really see that as an issue. Plus, if all these major changes are going to be for the support group content, it doesn't mean that 'No IC = Group content is dead forever in lotro'.

    Plus I've lived through class overhauls in other MMOs before, this one will probably be no different. People love to whisper about NGE any time they spot a change they don't like, but frankly NGE was way more massive than anything turbine has proposed.

    Mind you, I think talent trees are the worst. But it appears that the trait system just can't be easily or properly balanced. The (updated) Warsteed trees have been alright, and I'm willing to give Turbine the benefit of the doubt that the new class trees won't be terrible.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mothermoy View Post
    Changes i dont mind. Generally speaking i adapt very well to whatever is thrown at me. However, the bigger the change....the higher your chances run of NGE'ing your game into oblivion. I just dont want that to happen here. that always seems to linger at the edge of my mind anytime i hear about something like this.


    I dunno, the NGE was the entire game being changed.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
    Continuing the never ending battle to keep Lobelia Sackville-Baggins in check

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    I dunno, the NGE was the entire game being changed.
    Well there are parallels that make some concerned about it


    Long term devoted community + sweeping changes to class mechanics and game play principles +Perception that changes were for changes sake, or for the purpose of chasing a completely different audience + limited/no feedback loops between much of the community about proposed changes= went real well for SOE

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    Well, changes are a part of any MMO in existence. I used to Nerd rage at changes, but over the years I learned that changes are just in the nature of MMOs as they get older.

    Reminds me of when I was in the Marine Corps in a tank battalion the word came down that the M 60 tank was going to be replaced by the Abrams. Boy, did every one throw a fit.

    Come to think of it, the M 60 tank that I spent so much time inside repairing radio equipment is now in a museum. Let's not even get started on the non digital radios I repaired.......
    +1 for Sound powered telephones... wait the Navy is still that antiquated

  10. #10
    In regards to your optimism for future instances and raids, the devs have said there is no IC and raid with HD, they are focused entirely on Big Battles and there are currently no new instances or raids being worked on. This means that should they determine an IC/raid is appropriate for a region, it will take a year + (from some previous dev chat/comment) to get it released; with that, I'm assuming that there will be no new IC/raid in this expac cycle.

    The devs have said they will look at the possibility of scaling other instances, but no commitment to do so and no commitment to timeline should they do it.

    TB has also previously stated that raids are the most expensive part of the game to produce and that raiders are a single digit percentage of the players. At this point I doubt (my opinion only) that they will ever again produce a progression raid because the raiders will mostly have left as they have nothing to do. It's possible that new instances will be developed in the future, or a lair boss raid, but Turbine has decided its future is with the casual and the solo-er.

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jokulsarlon View Post
    +1 for Sound powered telephones... wait the Navy is still that antiquated
    Antiquated or not, extremely useful at times... I've been on two different ships that went dead in the water. No engines, no electricity, nothing. Only things that worked were the battle lanterns (battery powered) and sound powered phones. Without the phones, no way to communicate with anyone else on the ship without sending messengers running. On an LHD (helicopter/landing craft carrier), that's a lot of ground to cover between the bridge and engineering!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skippa View Post
    Well there are parallels that make some concerned about it


    Long term devoted community + sweeping changes to class mechanics and game play principles +Perception that changes were for changes sake, or for the purpose of chasing a completely different audience + limited/no feedback loops between much of the community about proposed changes= went real well for SOE
    A lot of people think that the NGE's main discontent point was with the mechanics changing, it wasn't...the main problem point was losing 75% of the professions completely. After playing for 2 years to have your character effectively deleted would kinda be a problem, I know I didn't like my CH/BE being terminated with nothing to speak of in return. That's definitely not happening here with the skill/trait trees.
    Give a guy a pound of gold...he'll complain about how heavy it is.
    Enmity of Forum Trolls: 106/5000 Of the Egaads clan


 

 

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