We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4
Results 76 to 94 of 94
  1. #76
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    8,724
    Quote Originally Posted by jakeprecision123 View Post
    use the 4 piece OT t1 set along with 2 piece OT t2 set = -120s confound CD = perma confound = perma mez.
    I never really considered the very large bonuses from some of the sets to be part of the official character's abilities. As in the captain Rallying Cry cooldown as another example. It's something that only a small subset of players ever gets access to, so it can't be relied on or expected.

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkrist View Post
    The day that the Bounder tokens were first being found not long ago, a friend of mine, one of the most level-headed people I know, made a comment within the glyphs [GLFF ] that she thought that the drop rate for the tokens was a bit low. She said so in a calm and easy manner, in no way as an attack or as a tantrum at all.

    Right away, a good many who heard her began to mock her for it. She was labeled as a 'whiner', a 'complainer' and a lot of things far worse. And, as she tried to defend herself, and just defend her right to have an opinion, the piling on because much worse, until she eventually gave up, to the delight of many.
    Mind telling us which server this is so I'll know to avoid it like the plague? Thanks in advance!

  3. Quote Originally Posted by PhilNorv View Post
    Mind telling us which server this is so I'll know to avoid it like the plague? Thanks in advance!
    Oh, I would rather not, since pointing fingers is never a good thing, and leads away from what the discussion here is to be about. The server one would least expect such things to occur on, which was partly why I brought it up and also why I took some care in writing my thoughts on the diary.

    There will always be apologists for things everywhere you go, just as there will always be detractors, you know? That is why I am sure that the Overlords take the responses to their diaries and actions with a tablespoon of salt, and rightly so. But, I hope... I dearly hope, that opinions given here, ones that are both well-intentioned and argued with reason, will be heard and considered.


    Currently running The Spirit Gauntlet, during which no fate is unimaginable...

    'Legendary' Items - Tips, Tricks, and a Guide to the 'Grind' - a Legendary Items guide! (And a new Imbuing guide! and Essence guide!)

    The Life and Times of Kaleigh Starshine: Curing insomnia, one reader at a time, and a proud resident of The Cottage of Pen and Play

  4. #79
    sure they are making this SOUND good on PAPER but the application of which is HORRID, ie get ready to lose over half your skills

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    TN+Germany
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiperandwake View Post
    sure they are making this SOUND good on PAPER but the application of which is HORRID, ie get ready to lose over half your skills
    How often should we tell this? You don't LOOSE half of your skills. You only can't use them all at the same time. And that is mostly also not necessary. Most of the skills you don't need all the time, only in special situations... - and then you can swith to use them...

    And even when there are some situations where you can't adapt or where you can't use all the skills you want to... It'll be onyl a little bit more difficult. And this is just the thing all people want, and now where it could be like this, they're complaining about that... With countless new skills with each expansion and 10 new levels it's clear that there has to be a revamp, otherwise you would have 200 skills when you go into Mordor...

    This would be very clear to find all, especially because you can't use them all with one of the qucik access toolbars... oh yeah, you would have a skill for each, tiny situation which propably only happens once... and the people would complain about it because it's so easy...

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Claremont, California
    Posts
    464
    Quote Originally Posted by Orodbril View Post
    How often should we tell this? You don't LOOSE half of your skills. You only can't use them all at the same time. And that is mostly also not necessary. Most of the skills you don't need all the time, only in special situations... - and then you can swith to use them...
    How frequently does a situation have to happen before it's not "special?" All Burglar skills have general applicability.

    The current system allows you to pick and choose how you to specialize or generalize. In the new system, you're funneled down and dry. Your selection is constrained by contrived point costs. The deeper you go down a line, the less choices you have. It is a less flexible system. It's not even defensible to propose that these limitations force more interesting choices -- the ability to easily switch specs makes a mockery of that claim.

    Perhaps a lot of players want that conventionality, and maybe it will attract more new people to the game. But I've stuck with LOTRO because it was different, and being different is worthy.


    Quote Originally Posted by Orodbril View Post
    With countless new skills with each expansion and 10 new levels it's clear that there has to be a revamp, otherwise you would have 200 skills when you go into Mordor...
    That does not fit. Under the new system, you get a one-time contraction of skills, but the very nature of tree-based specialization means your hypothetical proliferation of skills would resume effectively at the same rate, if you stick with one spec, or at an even higher rate, if you don't.

    But, never mind that: Turbine already had an answer to skill proliferation many updates ago. They introduced skill mutations. Minstrels received modal skills, abilities that changed behaviours depending on their stance. Burglar skills were granted additional facets as the character leveled up (e.g., Sneaky Aim meant automatic crit). They also took the mechanics of Warden gambits and gave it back to us with a new cut, the Minstrel anthem-codas-stance combinatorials. They could have continued that work and adapted the tech to the other classes -- think the burglar's crit response chain with bushier, more interesting branching.

    Having established that precedence, they could have extended the existing Trait system with new synergy types: for example, granting bonus X if specifically trait Y and Z were equipped.

    I think the existing system has legs. Turbine's creativity kept it adaptable to more levels and new abilities. Now we're throwing it all away for a trite, conventional specialization tree system that incentivizes specialization, in relation to an advanced class whose quintessential quality in the lore is a wide breadth of capability, an intentioned lack of specialization. Not a happy turn for me.
    Last edited by 8skyfaller; Sep 12 2013 at 07:36 PM.
    [CENTER][SIZE=2][FONT=palatino linotype]Genifer, Helle, Zorzini, Borniveth, Wellwyn, Nothgyth, Saxwis
    [/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=palatino linotype]SHADOWBANE | Landroval
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/CENTER]

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Orodbril View Post
    How often should we tell this? You don't LOOSE half of your skills. You only can't use them all at the same time. And that is mostly also not necessary. Most of the skills you don't need all the time, only in special situations... - and then you can swith to use them...

    And even when there are some situations where you can't adapt or where you can't use all the skills you want to... It'll be onyl a little bit more difficult. And this is just the thing all people want, and now where it could be like this, they're complaining about that... With countless new skills with each expansion and 10 new levels it's clear that there has to be a revamp, otherwise you would have 200 skills when you go into Mordor...

    This would be very clear to find all, especially because you can't use them all with one of the qucik access toolbars... oh yeah, you would have a skill for each, tiny situation which propably only happens once... and the people would complain about it because it's so easy...
    you really seem to be promoting the hell out of the new system everywhere... and also have no real idea how the new system will affect the classes and gameplay
    <img src='http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/02204000000182cb5/01002/signature.png'></img>

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by 8skyfaller View Post
    How frequently does a situation have to happen before it's not "special?" All Burglar skills have general applicability.

    The current system allows you to pick and choose how you to specialize or generalize. In the new system, you're funneled down and dry. Your selection is constrained by contrived point costs. The deeper you go down a line, the less choices you have. It is a less flexible system. It's not even defensible to propose that these limitations force more interesting choices -- the ability to easily switch specs makes a mockery of that claim.

    Perhaps a lot of players want that conventionality, and maybe it will attract more new people to the game. But I've stuck with LOTRO because it was different, and being different is worthy.




    That does not fit. Under the new system, you get a one-time contraction of skills, but the very nature of tree-based specialization means your hypothetical proliferation of skills would resume effectively at the same rate, if you stick with one spec, or at an even higher rate, if you don't.

    But, never mind that: Turbine already had an answer to skill proliferation many updates ago. They introduced skill mutations. Minstrels received modal skills, abilities that changed behaviours depending on their stance. Burglar skills were granted additional facets as the character leveled up (e.g., Stealth Aim on auto-crit). They also took the mechanics of Warden gambits and gave it back to us with a new cut, the Minstrel anthem-codas-stance combinatorials. They could have continued that work and adapted the tech to the other classes -- think the burglar's crit response chain with bushier, more interesting branching.

    Having established that precedence, they could have extended the existing Trait system with new synergy types: for example, granting bonus X if specifically trait Y and Z were equipped.

    I think the existing system has legs. Turbine's creativity kept it adaptable to more levels and new abilities. Now we're throwing it all away for a trite, conventional specialization tree system that incentivizes specialization, in relation to an advanced class whose quintessential quality in the lore is a wide breadth of capability, an intentioned lack of specialization. Not a happy turn.

    Now we have trite, conventional treesIt was unnecessary to replace it this trite and limiting way.

    Well said. There already is a cookie-cutter build for burglars in PVE and turbine wishes to get rid of that, and force specialisation down our throats. However, i'm fairly certain that with this new system, with the disabled gear swapping in combat, players will seek for yet another cookie-cutter build. Previously, gear swapping made the game interesting.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Claremont, California
    Posts
    464
    Quote Originally Posted by blkplg13 View Post
    you really seem to be promoting the hell out of the new system everywhere... and also have no real idea how the new system will affect the classes and gameplay
    Hypothetically and vaguely speaking, it is conceivable that a very thorough, detailed, substantive approval or disapproval of the burglar revamp is not possible due to contractual reasons...
    Last edited by 8skyfaller; Sep 12 2013 at 08:06 PM.
    [CENTER][SIZE=2][FONT=palatino linotype]Genifer, Helle, Zorzini, Borniveth, Wellwyn, Nothgyth, Saxwis
    [/FONT][/SIZE][SIZE=2][FONT=palatino linotype]SHADOWBANE | Landroval
    [/FONT][/SIZE][/CENTER]

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    TN+Germany
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by blkplg13 View Post
    you really seem to be promoting the hell out of the new system everywhere... and also have no real idea how the new system will affect the classes and gameplay
    No, I'm just not such pessimistic... :P

    Yeah, but you have also no idea, ALL are speculations, but some on a better basis than others. And if someone convince me, then I'm not a reluctant person...

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    TN+Germany
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by 8skyfaller View Post
    How frequently does a situation have to happen before it's not "special?" All Burglar skills have general applicability.

    The current system allows you to pick and choose how you to specialize or generalize. In the new system, you're funneled down and dry. Your selection is constrained by contrived point costs. The deeper you go down a line, the less choices you have. It is a less flexible system. It's not even defensible to propose that these limitations force more interesting choices -- the ability to easily switch specs makes a mockery of that claim.

    Perhaps a lot of players want that conventionality, and maybe it will attract more new people to the game. But I've stuck with LOTRO because it was different, and being different is worthy.




    That does not fit. Under the new system, you get a one-time contraction of skills, but the very nature of tree-based specialization means your hypothetical proliferation of skills would resume effectively at the same rate, if you stick with one spec, or at an even higher rate, if you don't.

    But, never mind that: Turbine already had an answer to skill proliferation many updates ago. They introduced skill mutations. Minstrels received modal skills, abilities that changed behaviours depending on their stance. Burglar skills were granted additional facets as the character leveled up (e.g., Sneaky Aim meant automatic crit). They also took the mechanics of Warden gambits and gave it back to us with a new cut, the Minstrel anthem-codas-stance combinatorials. They could have continued that work and adapted the tech to the other classes -- think the burglar's crit response chain with bushier, more interesting branching.

    Having established that precedence, they could have extended the existing Trait system with new synergy types: for example, granting bonus X if specifically trait Y and Z were equipped.

    I think the existing system has legs. Turbine's creativity kept it adaptable to more levels and new abilities. Now we're throwing it all away for a trite, conventional specialization tree system that incentivizes specialization, in relation to an advanced class whose quintessential quality in the lore is a wide breadth of capability, an intentioned lack of specialization. Not a happy turn for me.
    You don't know how the new system will work. So don't say that you're funneled down and dry.



    This picture is from the new infos which were shown with the release today (Link to the infos are in the store under the information of the expansion pack).
    Look at the blue trait: In the 3rd line is an attribute at the left where a point is spent. But this attribute is not unlocked by an attribute directly above, no, it's unlocked by a attribute of the 2nd line - and therefore you see that the line for line is activated in a trait, not attribute for attribut. And you see that you have to spend bery less points in the top to get for example to the 3rd line, but I think it'll be propably more expensive when you go furthe down, so maybe you need 3 points for the 4th line. At least there has to be something that prevent having 2 capstones at the same time. I just want to say with this picture that it's POSSIBLY not such restrictive as you think. But we'll see it in practice only with open beta or release I'M saying it again and again...

    At least this one-time contraction was very necessary... how they'll fix it in the future I don't know. And at least it COULD be slowed because the number of skills you get with 10 new levels to level cap CAN POSSIBLY shared on 3 traits, but however it's not the topic of the thread.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    TN+Germany
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by 8skyfaller View Post
    Hypothetically and vaguely speaking, it is conceivable that a very thorough, detailed, substantive approval or disapproval of the new revamped system is not possible due to contractual reasons...
    If you want to imply that I'm in the closed beta: No, I'm not. But because I don't want to speculate on the one side, but nevertheless I want to say my opinion and discuss it. But I'm not putting them into solid, unalterable statements when I don't know soo much about it. They're just hints that I speculate with my opinion...

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    TN+Germany
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by 8skyfaller View Post
    Hypothetically and vaguely speaking, it is conceivable that a very thorough, detailed, substantive approval or disapproval of the burglar revamp is not possible due to contractual reasons...
    And if I would be in the closed beta, I would follow the rules of the NDA...

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Orodbril View Post
    This picture is from the new infos which were shown with the release today (Link to the infos are in the store under the information of the expansion pack).
    Look at the blue trait: In the 3rd line is an attribute at the left where a point is spent. But this attribute is not unlocked by an attribute directly above, no, it's unlocked by a attribute of the 2nd line - and therefore you see that the line for line is activated in a trait, not attribute for attribut. And you see that you have to spend bery less points in the top to get for example to the 3rd line, but I think it'll be propably more expensive when you go furthe down, so maybe you need 3 points for the 4th line. At least there has to be something that prevent having 2 capstones at the same time. I just want to say with this picture that it's POSSIBLY not such restrictive as you think. But we'll see it in practice only with open beta or release I'M saying it again and again...
    oooo i notcied something interesting about this image! just in red tree alone there are 21 points spent (27 overall in 15 "traits") but why does it say only 10 points spent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orodbril View Post
    No, I'm just not such pessimistic... :P

    Yeah, but you have also no idea, ALL are speculations, but some on a better basis than others. And if someone convince me, then I'm not a reluctant person...
    so far with the information from the dev diary and and the revitalize your role thing from the store, cappies will trait deep yellow to heal.
    Last edited by blkplg13; Sep 12 2013 at 09:22 PM.
    <img src='http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/02204000000182cb5/01002/signature.png'></img>

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    8,724
    Quote Originally Posted by 8skyfaller View Post
    How frequently does a situation have to happen before it's not "special?" All Burglar skills have general applicability.
    That's definitely how I felt about my minstrel back when level 50 was the cap. I used all of the skills available for various circumstances, they all had their use and you couldn't always predict in advance what you would need (either in soloing or in PUGs, though if you had a regular group always doing the same content then maybe you could use a subset). In particular, having to retrait to use difference skills would have been awful, you can't retrait in a middle of a fight. Though with the new system you can at least do it quickly out of combat, while still regretting the choice halfway through a boss fight when you realize that the tactics have to change.

    Better though than Guild Wars (1) where you have to choose only 8 skills to take each time you leave town.

    Of course at this point, no one outside of beta really know how many skills we'll actually get or how drastically it's cut back.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    TN+Germany
    Posts
    1,148
    Quote Originally Posted by blkplg13 View Post
    oooo i notcied something interesting about this image! just in red tree alone there are 21 points spent (27 overall in 15 "traits") but why does it say only 10 points spent?
    I noticed it, too. Then I thought that only the bright orange points are already spent and the darker ones are about to be spend, so distributed at that moment. But there would be still 15 spent points. And this part of the picture is confusing me, too. You found the weak point of this picture about giving reliable information.

  17. #92
    I am kind sad, that diary do not touch legacies. I am quite tired with switching so many weapons/tools. Tools for sneak, tools for healing, and hips cd, weapon for riddle range, for R&A cd, 3 weapons, every with diffrent legendary skill, so for QK, Gamble and for MM. I hope taht new trait lines, and legacies will adress that issues. But... that diary do not showing me where burg is heading at all. Just no info :/
    Gifford brg // Clodvig mns // Clodas wrd
    Clodburz dfl
    WeRock
    Yes, english is not my native language.

  18. #93
    Not trying to turn this away from the Burg diary, because I love my sneak. I just had to comment on that trait tree pic. By the titles of the trees it's obviously LM tree. I'm wondering if the pic inside of the trees is standard or going to be related to the class. The one right now is a bow and arrows, not very LM like. Something I'd expect too see on maybe the "Hunter" tree? Anyway back to the Burg diary. Will be some interesting changes. Hopefully I'm not spending 3 hrs after live trying to figure out how to spend my points.

  19. #94
    It is so obvious that the people who did this trait thing for the burglar had NO concept what the character was or what versatility was important for the full use of its skills. First - we worked years to build our characters and to develop the skill arrangements for versatile and creative play in the game -- that is NOW ALL GONE. You stripped the character of skills and put in place and dogmatic, rigid, and uncreative tree of made up new stuff no one has ever heard of -- a little hard to manage at level 85. I tried traiting several different times and still LOST over 15 necessary skill slots. The character as it is now can still kill stuff at a ridiculous rate - but not all burglars only want to go about mashing stuff like a guard -- there used to be so much more to the character -- now all of that is GONE GONE GONE. As a VIP player who has been with you since the beginning - - I am really distressed with your robbing us of our hard work and your taking away all aspects of creative character building and forcing us into a dogmatic system simply for the purpose of lining your pockets and selling stuff in your store. When people work hard for skills - especially legendary ones and you simply abolish them or make them unusable through an arbitrary system you betray their trust. One of the wonderful things about lotro as always been the versatility of character build and the variety of ways to play the characters -- this new system strips that into something unrecognizable. Also what about our legendary weapons we have worked to level up and forge in ways to augment our character skills -- now most of the legendary slots filled do not even have a corresponding spell - so what good are they. I know you say you did not take any skills away - just revamped them -- that's like saying you did not take away the new jeans just took all the color out of them - - the game has been degraded and losing all its color since ftp was instituted and the focus of your model has been on selling stuff in the store rather than providing a challenging, creative, and fun game environment. You seem to be unaware that your customers are leaving you in droves - have fun with selling 12 year olds stuff when all your financially solid base disintegrates from under you. This new system has really pushed that envelope. I was a paid subscriber - and am no more. Not another dime of my money will be spent on Turbine until the developers turn around and give back what they have stolen.

 

 
Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload