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  1. #1
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    Warleader Builds

    Hey Guys. A few people have asked me what builds i use when im both healing Duoing now. So heres what i use
    please post your own builds and let me know what works for you

    First off here is a link to a list of all Warleader skills and traits and what they do:
    http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Uruk_Warleader

    Healing:

    I usually rock this setup when healing big groups as im always focused i want to be as tanky as possible







    Corruptions:
    3x crit defence
    Health for power 2
    Health for damage 2
    Damage for power 2

    Class traits:
    Shield mastery
    Enhanced on your feet
    Harsh language
    Enhanced Quitters never win
    Lead the charge
    Power of fear
    Enhanced field promotion

    Racial traits:
    Advanced get a grip
    Imposing presence
    New breed
    Favored servant of the dark lord
    Tireless warrior

    I usually use the Point-Defence banner for more B/P/E and Mits when im healing and sit in commanders stance and protection aura.


    Duo Build:




    Corruptions:
    2x Crit rating
    Crit Defence
    Damage for power 2
    Health for power 2
    Health for damage 2

    Class traits:
    Shield mastery
    Enhanced snap out of it
    Harsh language
    Enhanced Quitters never win
    Lead the charge
    Power of fear
    Enhanced field promotion


    Racial traits:
    Advanced get a grip
    Imposing presence
    New breed
    Favored servant of the dark lord
    Leaders of the Orcs

    and i sit in brawlers stance and aura of command unless needed to jump into commanders stance to get some bigger heals off.
    i use the Command post for the 10% damage buff.



    Let me know what you use and why you prefer that setup
    Last edited by PERQ; Jul 15 2013 at 03:06 PM.

  2. #2
    hey crumb... what do i need to do to become a better wl?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowabunga11 View Post
    hey crumb... what do i need to do to become a better wl?
    Shhhh Muzzo. We need some great Defilers out there, we need to remember that warleaders arent main healers. We give buffs, spot heals and support defilers in healing and tank stuff while putting out interrupts, daze and some average dps at best.
    Kind of a jack of all trades master of none class.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PERQ View Post
    we need to remember that warleaders arent main healers.
    0.o Did you read that on the internet?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddrildun View Post
    0.o Did you read that on the internet?
    You come back and heal the huge fights we've been having lately
    when are you coming back anyway? the actions been actually decent these past 2 weeks.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by PERQ View Post
    You come back and heal the huge fights we've been having lately
    when are you coming back anyway? the actions been actually decent these past 2 weeks.

    Idk, I might hop on to watch the tourney.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roddrildun View Post
    0.o Did you read that on the internet?
    A warleaders main role has never been healer except before the defiler class was around. Even then, the roles were split.
    Warleaders main role is a tank. Now, it's a support class by nature, but its main utility revolves around being the focus, or close to the focus of attention. Healing has been synergised as part of what the warleader does and has to do, but the healing optimum still doesn't make it a primary healer.


    41% fire mit, 43% all other tacticals.
    45.4% beleriand mit, 49.5% on westernesse and ancient dwarf, 63.4% for common.

    All boosted by ~3.8% by swapping from AoC to AoP

    18.9% tact crit, 25.8% tact crit multiplier
    34% crit defence
    14.1% block
    11.3% evade (With PoT)
    Resistance 15.8%
    Individual resistance mitigation for the different effects (Cry, song etc etc) ranges from 24.4% and 25% with the pot.

    Fyi, I never play the warleader without either of the three mitigation pots.
    Last edited by Untg99; Sep 05 2013 at 08:13 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    A warleaders main role has never been healer except before the defiler class was around. Even then, the roles were split.
    Warleaders main role is a tank. Now, it's a support class by nature, but its main utility revolves around being the focus, or close to the focus of attention. Healing has been synergised as part of what the warleader does and has to do, but the healing optimum still doesn't make it a primary healer.
    I would have to disagree. Considering the pitiful dps that a Warleader puts out, that takes away the dps role, obviously. And, considering that a decent warleader isn't the easiest choice to bring down in a raid, that would make them less of a focus, UNLESS they are main healing. Which brings back the fact that Warleaders main function is, indeed, healing. That's basically all my Warleader ever does, and the amount of heals that a warleader can put out can most definitely make it a viable role for healing in a group. Granted, when clearing a keep, of course the warleader is a tank for trash. But when it comes to Raid vs. Raid, you can't very well "aggro" a freep, so to speak. A sure way to get the focus off the rest of the group is to be a main healer.

  9. #9
    The words focus and tank are being thrown around, but I've personally used the word "soaker" for the longest time. As a guard there has always been (at least) a little room to be a soaker toon that draws attention and mitigates the initiative/focus fire/general morale of the opposition through playing to their potential survivability, but the more a guard leans their build toward this the less impacting on the fight they can be in potential output (dps in the case of the guard). The extreme of this is going out packing a defensive build; you've no damage output to speak of, but you can comfortably sit an average of ~15m further forward than most other freeps if you're smart, even without outside heals. All utility a guard brings except shield-wall is lost when doing this ofc.

    This is an extreme niche for tank freeps and it's of very limited use (always has been), but it 'can' be of use when played well. I mention it because it helps paint the picture.

    When it comes to the WL; the whole class is built to being at least a partial soaker toon and retaining their contributions and utility whilst doing so. It is 'always' the role of a WL, only the degree of healing output and defense varies, and importantly it's not really a niche so much as a critical role. The trade-off between defense and contribution (heals and damage) is smoother than that of a guard and the utility of bubbles and auras remains constant for either, which sits it in what is actuallly a very comfortable and traditional pvp role.

    In summary; without WLs soaking some of the incoming damage they're not really achieving their potential; so no they're not primary healers and they certainly don't have the hps to pretend to be.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grusk View Post
    ...so no they're not primary healers and they certainly don't have the hps to pretend to be.
    Last I checked, they really do have the HPS to do so. Unless mine is an exception to the rule, which I HIGHLY doubt, because mine's not all that good, then they can put out good heal numbers.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grusk View Post
    When it comes to the WL; the whole class is built to being at least a partial soaker toon and retaining their contributions and utility whilst doing so. It is 'always' the role of a WL, only the degree of healing output and defense varies, and importantly it's not really a niche so much as a critical role. The trade-off between defense and contribution (heals and damage) is smoother than that of a guard and the utility of bubbles and auras remains constant for either, which sits it in what is actuallly a very comfortable and traditional pvp role.

    In summary; without WLs soaking some of the incoming damage they're not really achieving their potential; so no they're not primary healers and they certainly don't have the hps to pretend to be.
    Agreed, WLs have always been about soaking in damage, one of the main reasons I was so effective as a leader was simply because I could take the focus put on me, allowing my DPS to destroy everything else. However Freeps here do not realize it takes 1 champion to make a WL useless and then put the rest of their DPS on a opposing DPS.

    Setting the lack of strategy aside, if you are playing a WL properly and have a good group ratio such as 1 defiler and 1 WL for every 4 people you will find yourself being able to DPS/harass the healers to an extent in between your limited heals. Overall this greatly increases your overall effectiveness towards your group. You are seen as less of a threat because you are: not standing in 1 spot spamming inductions, disabling the opponents heals, critting every other shout (with the correct build which I will get to in a minute) enabling for faster heals, and kiting around making it a little harder for you to be interrupted.

    Most elitists look for a R4+ WL simply because of bubble, but they do not truly become elite until a minimum of R6 with stances. The reason why is because a good WL will always be able to tell when "Stance-dancing" is required. If you find yourself only casting an occasional heal simply to top someone of, you should definitely be in Brawlers, spamming shouts etc etc. If you need to pop a big heal or want a 100% QWAF you should definitely swap back, it takes a second for the animation but it's well worth the extra 2-4k heal. Every situation is different, with less healers you will be in Commander's the majority of fights, with more healers, you might find stance-dancing is easy. Normally when I start a fight (As a healer not a leader), I will be in Brawler's and I'll usually cycle through 2 sets of shouts before I switch to Commander's, allowing the defiler dots to do the initial heals while I can get in an extra 2-5k damage helping drop someone before their healers can react.



    Quote Originally Posted by Roddrildun View Post
    Last I checked, they really do have the HPS to do so. Unless mine is an exception to the rule, which I HIGHLY doubt, because mine's not all that good, then they can put out good heal numbers.
    WLs can have very high heals, however that does not mean that their overall HPS is great. The CDs that WLs have to put up combined with the ease in which they are interrupted makes it extremely hard to be considered a "Main Healer". Unlike Minstrels who can cast large heals on the move at the price of a few ballads, even without that they can still nearly instant cast these large heals with CDs as low as 0-1s. The only way to interrupt their heals is by having perfect timing on Fracture or Shield-Bash (As a WL). Moving on..


    I have found this to be the most beneficial array of traits. Occasionally if I know I won't be needing "Enhanced Skill: Field Promotion", "Enhanced Skill: On Your Feet!", or "Enhanced Skill: Snap Out Of It!" I may swap in some damage traits, especially "Shield Mastery". If you are grouping at all and like versatility then this is probably for you:



    List of Traits:

    Corruptions:
    Health for Power 2
    Health for Damage 2
    Critical Protection Boost 1 & 2
    Critical Rating Boosts 1 & 2

    Race:
    New Breed
    Tireless Warrior
    Brutal Persuasion
    Racial Skill: Imposing Presence
    Racial Skill: Get A Grip!

    Class:
    Harsh Language
    Power Of Fear
    Lead The Charge!
    Enhanced Skill: Field Promotion
    Enhanced Skill: Quitters Never Win
    Enhanced Skill: Snap Out Of It!
    Enhanced Skill: On Your Feet!

    The Combination of crit defense and crit rating seems to be superior to increased heal/damage output etc.

    Everybody has something different that works for them, this works for me and hopefully it can help other WLs all around.


    ~Khronus~
    [center]
    ~R7 Guardian. R7 Burglar. R6 Captain. R7 Champion.~
    ~R11 WarLeader Sexpanther, Unhallowed.~
    [i][b][u][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]Arkenstone[/color][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][color=#FFFF00]Elendilmir[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][/b][/u][/i][/center]

  12. #12
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    So you're the infamous Sexpanther. You weren't too nice to my scrawny as #### elf guard the other night!

    I'm curious as to why you'd run with Crit defence masteries over mitigation ones.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    So you're the infamous Sexpanther. You weren't too nice to my scrawny as #### elf guard the other night!

    I'm curious as to why you'd run with Crit defence masteries over mitigation ones.
    Well, it's either 2% phys and 2% tact mits or 16% crit defense. You decide.
    [center]
    ~R7 Guardian. R7 Burglar. R6 Captain. R7 Champion.~
    ~R11 WarLeader Sexpanther, Unhallowed.~
    [i][b][u][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]Arkenstone[/color][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][color=#FFFF00]Elendilmir[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][/b][/u][/i][/center]

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    So you're the infamous Sexpanther. You weren't too nice to my scrawny as #### elf guard the other night!
    There's your mistake; right there in red.

    And... it's been a while so clue me in how much crit defense and mitigation you have without either, as %ages Durf. Because, if you had say; 50% mits, no crit defense base %age and took roughly 25% incoming crits at base crit magnitude (50%); the mits would be a 4% reduction in incoming damage and the 16% crit defense would be a ~2.7% reduction in damage taken. The crit defense I think is likely less mitigation overall for you, though it does help smooth out spike damage you take to a greater degree.

    PS. The higher your mits without; the more the rating from the trait for them is worth. And, the higher their crit rating; the more often the crit defense impacts, but the less the amount it impacts by. Oh, and the higher your crit defense without; the more the trait/s for it are worth. Convoluted, but without knowing your base numbers you can't really be accurate as to what they're worth.
    Last edited by Grusk; Sep 08 2013 at 12:09 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeppelinCobalt View Post
    Everybody has something different that works for them, this works for me and hopefully it can help other WLs all around.

    ~Khronus~
    May I just point out that Khronus is a noob.

    <3

    -Spinray

  16. #16
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    @ Aerdred
    As a base with no corruptions slotted i have 26.1% base Crit Defence, 57.0% Physical mitigation and 47.8% Tactical mitigation.
    I cant remember if you gain any of these via battlefield promotions, If not then i assume Khronus' are the same.

  17. #17
    So the mitigations would give an actual damage reduction of more than 4% for phys, and slightly less than for tact. And, the crit defense if the average attacker is critting 25% of the time for 50% (base) multiplier then it gives ~3.25% reduction in average damage taken, but focus'ed on the spike of crits.

    I dunno... that raw mitigation is better by enough of a margin that I'd be tempted toward it unless the spike damage of crits is unbearable without the crit defense.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grusk View Post
    So the mitigations would give an actual damage reduction of more than 4% for phys, and slightly less than for tact. And, the crit defense if the average attacker is critting 25% of the time for 50% (base) multiplier then it gives ~3.25% reduction in average damage taken, but focus'ed on the spike of crits.

    I dunno... that raw mitigation is better by enough of a margin that I'd be tempted toward it unless the spike damage of crits is unbearable without the crit defense.
    That's actually incorrect on the physical, the rating gives less than 2% mitigations on each one.

    And based on the majority of freep builds these days maximizing critical chance/damage combined with the severity of induction knockbacks on heals by critical hits I would still argue that critical defense is still superior. Also I think my critical defense is over 61.5 with defiler buff so maybe around 57 without it? I'll have to check.
    [center]
    ~R7 Guardian. R7 Burglar. R6 Captain. R7 Champion.~
    ~R11 WarLeader Sexpanther, Unhallowed.~
    [i][b][u][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]Arkenstone[/color][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][color=#FFFF00]Elendilmir[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][/b][/u][/i][/center]

  19. #19
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    I was unclear earlier. The buffs are raw ratings and not percentages. I calculated the percentages myself, sorry if I confused you.

    EDIT:

    The ratings converted into %'s are to be exact:

    Physical Mitigation increased by: 1.5%
    Tactical Mitigation increased by: 1.9%

    Or

    Critical Defense increased by: 14.5%


    Also, you need to be factoring in WL killers especially, AKA Champions and their massive crit bonuses. I figure the average geared freep without buffs generally has at least 18% crit chance?
    Last edited by ZeppelinCobalt; Sep 09 2013 at 06:03 PM.
    [center]
    ~R7 Guardian. R7 Burglar. R6 Captain. R7 Champion.~
    ~R11 WarLeader Sexpanther, Unhallowed.~
    [i][b][u][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]Arkenstone[/color][color=#FFFF00]~~~[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][color=#FFFF00]Elendilmir[/color][color=#FF0000]~~~[/color][/b][/u][/i][/center]

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PERQ View Post
    @ Aerdred
    As a base with no corruptions slotted i have 26.1% base Crit Defence, 57.0% Physical mitigation and 47.8% Tactical mitigation.
    I cant remember if you gain any of these via battlefield promotions, If not then i assume Khronus' are the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeppelinCobalt View Post
    The ratings converted into %'s are to be exact:

    Physical Mitigation increased by: 1.5%
    Tactical Mitigation increased by: 1.9%

    Or

    Critical Defense increased by: 14.5%


    Also, you need to be factoring in WL killers especially, AKA Champions and their massive crit bonuses. I figure the average geared freep without buffs generally has at least 18% crit chance?
    Quote Originally Posted by ZeppelinCobalt View Post
    And based on the majority of freep builds these days maximizing critical chance/damage combined with the severity of induction knockbacks on heals by critical hits I would still argue that critical defense is still superior. Also I think my critical defense is over 61.5 with defiler buff so maybe around 57 without it? I'll have to check.
    Phys reduction would be:
    100-57-1.5 / 100-57 = 1 - x
    41.5 / 43 = 1 - x
    0.9651 = 1 - x
    0.0349 = x
    3.49% phys reduction

    Tact reduction would be:
    100-47.8-1.9 / 100-47.8 = 1 - x
    50.3 / 52.2 = 1 - x
    0.9636 = 1 - x
    0.0364 = x
    3.64% tact reduction

    As for crit... that's far trickier obviously. I'm not 100% sure, from the way you worded what you said, whether you're under the impression crit defense will impact the greater set-back inductions take from crits or not; suffice to say it doesn't. Assuming you don't think it does; then you'd be referring to how you need to plan for fighting dps classes with their higher crit multipliers. The reality of that, however, is that the more crit multiplier an opponent has, the less your crit defense is worth. I don't have numbers for it in front of me, but I think it's safe to assume a dps class is going to have in excess of +100% crit multiplier (50% base normally for each skill, far more for remorseless and certain others, +30% legacy and I'm assuming 20%+ from crit rating). In such a case your 47% (with defiler buff) baseline crit defense reduces their crit multiplier to 1.53x and your corruption-supplemented crit defense reduces it to 1.385x;

    1.385 / 1.53 = 1 - x
    0.9052 = 1 - x
    0.0948 = x
    9.48% crit damage reduction assuming the above mentioned 2x total crit multiplier (not checked, but I suspect the norm is higher and this would lower the %age reduction) and for dev crits the %age reduction would be quite a bit less again.

    That would need to be multiplied by the %age crit chance. In the previous post I tried to arbitrarily include dev chance and state an estimated sum of 25%. The reality is that each toon will vary and I have no idea of what values different toons are expecting to be using, but I doubt it's cap as all toons build some defense out there. Regardless; the wildly simplified value of 25% chance would mean that 9.48% becomes:

    0.0948 x 0.25 = 0.0237
    2.37% reduction in average damage taken for any damage type.

    Please, excuse the 25% number; it's obvious that crit defense is more valuable if the attacker is critting more often, and you can picture how much the value will swing, but I'd hope to say 2.37% is something of a fair estimation of the value of average damage mitigation from the crit defense. Which, is significantly less than the phys+tact mit route, but as I said above; it smooths the damage taken out to a greater degree because the average might be higher, but the crits are lower. Their crit chance would have to be in the order of cap (25% crit, 10% dev) to have 35% and therefore 3.32% average damage reduction. That's much closer to the phys+tact, but the dev crit magnitude is higher and regular crit magnitude is likely to exceed +100%, diminishing the impact your crit defense would have on each crit/dev.

    I'm not arguing for either, just 'trying' to model the gains from each. Either way I most definitely roamed the realms of tl;dr there, and so in summary I can reasonably say: the crit defense is on average mitigating less damage taken (nomatter who the attacker), but 'is' smoothing the spike damage taken when crit.

    Damage reduction - refers in this post to the %age difference in the damage you can expect to take when adding corruptions to your value without (base).
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