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  1. #1

    Best current stats for a DPS Minstrel?

    Hi, Champion here, I have no clue about playing a Minstrel and hope that you can advise me

    Firstly, sorry if this question gets asked loads. I've looked for help online but am aware that things change over time and what may have been the best stat a couple of years ago may not be the case now.

    My friend Theo plays a level 60 Minstrel, but he prefers to DPS than to heal others. This is his first ever MMO and first ever character so he's still finding his feet two years in and mainly plays solo or sometimes with me (level 76 champ). I thought he might do better as a Hunter, but he is attached to his Minstrel as he really likes the music-based attack animations etc. so, DPS Minstrel it is.

    I do my best to keep him up to date with armour, weapons and jewellery, but what are the stats I should be aiming for? I once read that Will was by far the most important stat for any minstrel so usually go with that. Theo never runs out of power anymore, but he is terribly squishy and cannot complete certain below-level quests without help (for instance, some of the Dolven View instances). We are working on hs virtue deeds to boost his selected traits in the hopes that this will help (if anyone can recommend a good trait set for us to compare his with, I'd be grateful for that too).

    Any help or suggestions very greatfully received!


  2. #2
    Messaged. Iola is an RL friend.

  3. #3
    Ooh thanks Aedfrith

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    As a solo DPS minstrel I am looking for the testing behind this as well. I have heard that agility and of course fate can be important. Has anyone done the testing to see where the diminishing returns begin to take place?

  5. #5
    Agility has uselessly little effect on Minstrel DPS. Fate will affect your critical rating, but it's far less important now as a stat than it used to be.

    Pretty much all Minstrel DPS now comes down to:
    • Will - Impacts your tactical mastery at about 10 points per 1 point of will
    • Tactical Mastery - Directly affects your damage bonus
    • Critical Rating - Affects how often you're able to crit (caps at 25%), basically critical chance
    • Finesse - Affects how often you get resisted, for the most part this is almost entirely a Raid / PVP stat, since trash mobs don't have super high resists.
    • Fate - As mentioned Fate also factors in, but it only adds about 2.5 crit rating per stat point, and since most Minstrel gear now doesn't have a ton of fate and when you compare it as a stat vs other gear which has a flat 300+ crit rating, it isn't super impactful.

    There are a few other stats available, but most of these have been phased out of Minstrel Gear, or gear altogether (Crit Magnitude). Agility, while it does affect your critical rating, only works at 1 to 1 from stat, and the vast majority of agi gear has limited other useful stats, so it's not worth seeking out.

    The whole debate of Tactical Mastery(Will) vs. Crit Rating vs. Finesse, gets thrown around a lot, mostly because it's complicated since the stats do interact with each other in terms of optimization. There's a somewhat old, but good thread on the forums that talks about this HERE

    For Minstrels what it pretty much comes down to is Role,

    Solo / Group Content: Will > Tac Mastery > Crit Rating > Finesse - Will and Tactical mastery will give you pure damage. Since it's likely you'd also be healing at some point, you can also factor in the Will/TM effect on Healing, which caps at around 25k TM. So for better optimization here, if you're above 25-27k TM, start looking for more Crit/Fate stat gear.

    Pure Damage: Need to go hard mathcrafting (Like This) to figure out the best stat curve between TM(flat & Will) and Crit since they play off of each other.

    Raid Content: Finesse > Will > Tac Mastery > Crit - For DPS in a raid (which isn't likely for a minstrel) you need Finesse to be able to hit. If you're not hitting, you're not doing damage, so it take precedence. More realistically though, you should probably shoot for Will/TM since it's far more likely for you to be healing.

    PvMP: Different schools of thought here. Finesse is important for breaking resists, but players with around 3-5k Finesse have all generally not reported many resist issues. TM generally gives more sustained DPS, and can affect healing (Will also affects resists/mitigation which can increase survivability) while big crits can be better in a short term DPS race (which is most fights out there) but is less predictable and doesn't help survivability.
    Personally, I'd probably prioritize Crit > Will > TM > Finesse - provided you have at least some Finesse built into your gear. Most fights will be poke fights that take advantage of openings (like a crit or a straggler) so sustained DPS isn't as important as insta-killing someone.

    @OP - The other thing to consider outside of optimizing damage is survivability. Most minstrel aggro reducers are based around healing, so if he's really getting in there and doing damage (in group content), it's possible to draw aggro, especially since many of our skills are AoE. AC and Vitality are also important stats in being able to actually stand up in a fight when you pull aggro from multiple mobs.

    Couple of other stats links
    Last edited by Gedrevn; Oct 11 2013 at 03:59 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Central Victoria, Australia
    Thanks Gedrevn. An excellent clear summary of the current way all these stats work and pointers to useful threads.

    ( I agree with it all-although i tried pushing raw morale a bit more than before in RoR (on advice) for survival in some instances. Jury's still out for me on that. I was still trying to get my crit rating up so your post makes the tweaking required really clear. )

  7. #7
    Solo / Group Content: Will > Tac Mastery > Crit Rating > Finesse - Will and Tactical mastery will give you pure damage. Since it's likely you'd also be healing at some point, you can also factor in the Will/TM effect on Healing, which caps at around 25k TM. So for better optimization here, if you're above 25-27k TM, start looking for more Crit/Fate stat gear.
    I agree your post as a whole, but just wanted to clear up the incorrect information here. At lvl 75 Healing capped when you reached about 27.5k, however at 85 it doesn't cap until much later. I currently can get to over 40k and have still not reached the cap. However, since it has diminishing returns, it is not worth investing so much gear into pure mastery.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    ballad of the 4th + war speech + a crafted drum = a chance of devastate critical and a bomb of minstrel damage
    hammerhand 100 % damage trait + skill attack speed buff = damage much and heals upon damage

  9. #9

    Solo Minstrel

    I know a lot about this.I have played a solo Minstrel DPS for the last two years. Specifically you want to focus first on will and tactical mastery buffs on armors. Third vitality. Seeing as how if you mouse of all the stats of the character chart page you will see that will is the only thing that augments the minstrels attack power.

    I have heard from many people that you want to balance your will, fate and agility and focus on critical buffs from armor. This simply is not true. Here is an illustration.

    If your base damage is only 900-1100 because you have 2k and your critical % is 60% or higher. Critical is not scaled. it only doubles and 2.5 times the damage. It doesn't scale the damage the more critical you have. The same with healing. Lots of people believe that what I am saying false however I have done the tests. 900-1100 standard ballad and light damage calls only do 3-7k crit and devastate at that. Crit only increases the amount of criticals you get and devastate. This is nothing is you aren't hitting hard. So what if you get tons of criticals. My Minstrel isn't even max on his armor yet at 95 and he has 49439 tactical mastery and my ballads hit at standard 3k-4k damage, my crits are 5-6 and my devastates are 7ks. and this is my weakest tactical attacks. My calls/light damage skills do 7k-9k standard damage and crits are hitting at 17k-20k and my devastates are 22k roughly. My standard hits higher than those who say equalize those three stats and focus on critical buffs on armor. Much higher than their devastates hit as well. So focus on will, tactical mastery and vitality buff armors. Fate is really useless the most you can get is roughly 1500 and a Minstrel doesn't need fake because of anthem of composure. The same goes for healing as well sadly. Will, tactical mastery and vitality. don't even listen to those people who are saying that fate is very important for a Minstrel. They have no idea what they are talking about.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Pacific Northwest
    Actually I don't think anybody has said lately - certainly not since HD - that fate is important. I completely agree with you, it's really not. I run only about 600 fate and my crit level is at 25% due to other factors on gear and jewelry.

    I run at 4k will which gives me (with LIs and gear) about 56k tactical mastery and I hit like a truck. My heals are off the charts because of the new skill trees and the way our skills have changed and easily run over 20k hps in blue line.

    I'd agree it's Will, Tactical Mastery, and Vit as the important stats for a minstrel.
    I'd explain it to you, but I'm all out of Puppets and Crayons.
    ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
    Moochy, 105 Minstrel R10

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Central Victoria, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by KingLazarus View Post
    Will, tactical mastery and vitality. don't even listen to those people who are saying that fate is very important for a Minstrel. They have no idea what they are talking about.
    Agree. My fate sits around 400-600 depending a bit on gear i use at the time. My hits are similar to yours. Ballads regularly damage at 3k so if used there will be a power use reduction plus damage. Never have power problems dpsing in instances. Don't do moors or 1v1. I do duo undermanned content a lot with a warden so sustaining dps/anthems or steady heals is my priority. People I randomly group with notice i only have power issues if I have power drain adds on me. (i use a fate shield and anthem/coda for Glinghant). Power shouldn't be a problem even without using the trait or stacking fate. [edited out will nonsense] My ballad crits averaged 20% last time i used combat analysis with 400 fate.

    Just want to stress agility does nothing for minstrels.

    What's your advice on finesse?
    Last edited by Calta; Mar 20 2014 at 06:00 AM. Reason: nonsense sentence about will

  12. #12
    I like to keep my crit % high, since crit rating also contributes to Critical Magnitude (which increases the size of Crits and devastates). So I sit at around 28% crit, and then the rest of my gear is invested in Tactical mastery/will. I don't make a point to invest in finesse anymore since it comes on so many pieces of armor/jewelry already. But, I don't PvP, so my build is based around what is needed in PvE environments. With around 50k mastery, and a high crit rating I devastate for around the 30k region.

    I agree completely that it is of no value to specifically invest in fate. The crit rating benefit is small, and it is unlikely you'll be having power problems anyway. If you do have power problems, using the Coda response of Anthem of Composure is a much more potent method of power regeneration.

    Also, a few people I have noticed (not specifically on these forums, but in game as well) seem to think that Will contributes to critical rating. This is not the case, will contributes to both Mastery's, and to Tactical Mitigation.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Calta View Post
    What's your advice on finesse?
    I have 6k finesse in moors and barely get a resist, happens on skill having a very low finesse rating like coda, but it's really really rare.

    In big battles I have 4k finesse, never get a resist.

    I don't dps really often so I didn't test that much how much finesse I need, but 4k seems ok for PvE.

    First Marshall Angiela

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Central Victoria, Australia
    Thank you both for the advice on finesse. It confirms my 'gut instinct'.

    OT: is anyone here Beta testing their minstrels in instances=there are some fundamental stat changes in part 2 of beta 13. I'm having to self heal on the Isengard orcs and trolls-which is nice, but some of the tact damage/mitigations change worry me for tier 2 instances. I have no one to test group healing with and I'd appreciate your input into the effect on the harder stuff especially.

    Hopefully the bullroarer download will be available for next weekend. Looking forward to feedback in the bullroarer threads



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