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  1. #1

    Reavers/Impale...

    Yeah... The title. I really, really, can't handle it. Today, I got hit with Impale for 4,5k. 4 times in total, twice by a R12 Reaver and twice by a R11 Reaver. What can I possibly do against something that bypasses nearly all my mits? 55% both common and tactical. Even with Bracing to remove Thrash, it would still hit for 3,7k. My total morale is 11k. My gear is far from the best of the best, but still I don't use any CDs, and I won't use a bubble or something to absorb Impale. I just want a fair solution... Please
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  2. #2
    It's hard to hit a moving target.

    Smart Reavers use Impale after 2 bleeds to start the 20-second cool-down timer sooner. A lot of Reavers wait to apply 3 or 4 bleeds for higher DamagePerHit rather than DamagePerSecond.

    Your best defense is to delay their Impale. Kite them. Twitch mouse turn. You want to prevent rather than cure. Use Bracing Attack to keep your morale topped off; use movement to delay their Impale.

    Max out targeted melee skills range legacy. Think of your targeting bubble as a particle in space that collides, for a moment, with their targeting bubble to produce a violent reaction. If you turn away fast enough you can unleash a Ferocious/Brutal + Clobber/Merc before they can even auto-attack (this is simple, but difficult). It's a race to 50% morale (Merciful Strike > Devastating Strike).

    Remember they have Resilience (1-minute cool-down) and a CC brand to remove your Hamstring.

    Outmaneuver/delay their Impale.
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  3. #3
    At this point I don't think bracing is particularly necessary against reavers if they're not using wrath/ato. Without bracing, I tend to lose slightly more than I win against reavers but that's ok. It mostly comes down to crits and miss/bpe. I feel like the solution is just to hit hard enough to kill them before they can get too many impales off. With nice gear, it shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility to regularly parse 600-700 dps (maybe even higher) against a reaver. You can always stance dance into glory/kite for more bracing and what not but it's probably overkill. As a reference point, besides the rohan rings, my jewelry is mostly teal/purple crafted/barter stuff.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CodeofMisconduct View Post
    It's hard to hit a moving target.
    I've had some practice on my warden, I find it rather easy now.

    Smart Reavers use Impale after 2 bleeds to start the 20-second cool-down timer sooner. A lot of Reavers wait to apply 3 or 4 bleeds for higher DamagePerHit rather than DamagePerSecond.

    Your best defense is to delay their Impale. Kite them. Twitch mouse turn. You want to prevent rather than cure. Use Bracing Attack to keep your morale topped off; use movement to delay their Impale.
    Well I think I could try this, thank you.

    Max out targeted melee skills range legacy.
    Got that.

    Think of your targeting bubble as a particle in space that collides, for a moment, with their targeting bubble to produce a violent reaction. If you turn away fast enough you can unleash a Ferocious/Brutal + Clobber/Merc before they can even auto-attack (this is simple, but difficult). It's a race to 50% morale (Merciful Strike > Devastating Strike).
    I've tried this, but the Imaple will come on some point. And when it does, I'm pretty much on 50%

    Outmaneuver/delay their Impale.
    So: there is no actual way to stand and take an Impale, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddyfence View Post
    At this point I don't think bracing is particularly necessary against reavers if they're not using wrath/ato. Without bracing, I tend to lose slightly more than I win against reavers but that's ok. It mostly comes down to crits and miss/bpe.
    Then you mean yours or theirs? Assuming it's them (no bpe in Fervour), I'm on 17% Finesse, but my attacks get bpe'ed/missed so often it isn't even funny... Against every class, that is.

    I feel like the solution is just to hit hard enough to kill them before they can get too many impales off. With nice gear, it shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility to regularly parse 600-700 dps (maybe even higher) against a reaver. You can always stance dance into glory/kite for more bracing and what not but it's probably overkill. As a reference point, besides the rohan rings, my jewelry is mostly teal/purple crafted/barter stuff.
    So do I feel, but due to lag and gear, my DPS can't outmatch their in th morale race (22k vs 11k). I have crafted bracelets, Rohan rings, but not the good ones (never got 3 Wyrmfires, and when I did I was out of tokens), and BoD earrings (150 might 211 morale 768 crit rating). Crit is 9k and PM is exceptionally low on 18k.
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I've had some practice on my warden, I find it rather easy now.



    Well I think I could try this, thank you.



    Got that.



    I've tried this, but the Imaple will come on some point. And when it does, I'm pretty much on 50%



    So: there is no actual way to stand and take an Impale, right?



    Then you mean yours or theirs? Assuming it's them (no bpe in Fervour), I'm on 17% Finesse, but my attacks get bpe'ed/missed so often it isn't even funny... Against every class, that is.



    So do I feel, but due to lag and gear, my DPS can't outmatch their in th morale race (22k vs 11k). I have crafted bracelets, Rohan rings, but not the good ones (never got 3 Wyrmfires, and when I did I was out of tokens), and BoD earrings (150 might 211 morale 768 crit rating). Crit is 9k and PM is exceptionally low on 18k.
    Are you sure you aren't confusing a bpe with a miss from dust? Any good reaver should be applying Upper Hand before Dust to prevent removal. If you're struggling against a reaver who is doing this, try to use movement to slow the 15s you have this debuff up with longer looping movements and quick direction changes for seperation so both of you get fewer attacks off, then you can pot Dust after 15s, rather than trying to straight dps through the first 15s of dust/upper hand. 20% miss rate can be meaningless, or it can absolutely destroy your dps, depending on the RNG, if you can't remove it, its best to slow the fight down till you can.

    How is your mastery that low, assuming those are the lvl 85 crafted jewelry pieces?

    I'm sure Kidefence is also referring to no bracing while using morale gearswap jewelry (at least against good reavers), so if you don't have 4-6k of 'free' morale to swap out, I wouldn't worry about no bracing.

    When I toy around with my reaver, the thing that strikes me most about the class compared to other classes I'm more used to (besides Guardian) is how SLOW attack animations are. What I've been working on both with warden and warg against classes with relatively slower attack speeds, is movement such that I get multiple attacks off, but my opponent only gets a single one. This is VERY hard (for me) and I'm just scratching the surface of how to do it effectively, plus you have to pay a ton of attention to your opponents animations, rather than simply their position.

    As Illy mentions, movement is incredibly important for any class, but the faster your attack speed, the more so. Being able to mouse-turn and stay on a target is something many lotro players never grasp, that you have is good, but this is one aspect of the game that I've NEVER Seen someone truly master, unlike rotations, gearswaps, and class specific strats. E has a few players who are close though (Ekklektik and Whiskeyinmytummy when is isn't drunk come to mind).
    Last edited by spelunker; Aug 29 2013 at 03:11 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Yeah... The title. I really, really, can't handle it. Today, I got hit with Impale for 4,5k. 4 times in total, twice by a R12 Reaver and twice by a R11 Reaver. What can I possibly do against something that bypasses nearly all my mits? 55% both common and tactical. Even with Bracing to remove Thrash, it would still hit for 3,7k. My total morale is 11k. My gear is far from the best of the best, but still I don't use any CDs, and I won't use a bubble or something to absorb Impale. I just want a fair solution... Please
    I cannot believe what i am reading :-)

    Its ok to 1vs1 as you are doing but to complain about the use of a skill due to you not using your own skills to either counter this or for not having maxed legacies (if thats the case) is crazy. Champs who blow CDs, and not even them all are damn near gods at times. Relentless can hit for high numbers, your WA is a damn nice hitter and on a very short CD, even AA from champs are silly. Your only thinking about reavers who kill you? what about the unfotunate classes who have #### DPS like WLs and Defilers? What solution do we get for a champs skills being far to powerful, and thats coming from a WL who wont heal in 1vs1, but thats my choice :-D
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  7. #7
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    Reaver/Champ is pretty well balanced when the champ doesn't use bubbles/dire need, and in all honesty, a R11/R12 reaver should beat you if

    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    My gear is far from the best of the best,
    Freep side is very gear-centric, so to actually have a chance without CDs against high ranks (Reavers=R9, Impale changes everything) I think you should go gear hunting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I just want a fair solution... Please
    The problem is that if you could beat the high rank Reavers, those with really good gear would completely demolish even the R15 ones, and that wouldn't be very fair to the creeps...
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  8. #8
    How much Crit Defense do you have? 4.5k sounds pretty meaty for only 4 hits, I usually take ~7k from 8/9 from 100% crits when sparring toe to toe. A simple increase of Morale and CD would help a lot, the real DPS race kicks in after the first Impale as most of the ranked reavers on Snowbourn will kite with Resilience until they can use it again.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by MessyR View Post
    Its ok to 1vs1 as you are doing but to complain about the use of a skill due to you not using your own skills to either counter this or for not having maxed legacies (if thats the case) is crazy. Champs who blow CDs, and not even them all are damn near gods at times. Relentless can hit for high numbers, your WA is a damn nice hitter and on a very short CD, even AA from champs are silly. Your only thinking about reavers who kill you? what about the unfotunate classes who have #### DPS like WLs and Defilers? What solution do we get for a champs skills being far to powerful, and thats coming from a WL who wont heal in 1vs1, but thats my choice :-D
    Yes, sorry about me using bracing, I didn't notice you didn't heal till we finished our sparring. I won't next time. I have all maxed legacies, on a First Age 1h and 2h. No Rune, Rend Pulses is only at 8! But it's not really relevant to the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Are you sure you aren't confusing a bpe with a miss from dust? Any good reaver should be applying Upper Hand before Dust to prevent removal. If you're struggling against a reaver who is doing this, try to use movement to slow the 15s you have this debuff up with longer looping movements and quick direction changes for seperation so both of you get fewer attacks off, then you can pot Dust after 15s, rather than trying to straight dps through the first 15s of dust/upper hand. 20% miss rate can be meaningless, or it can absolutely destroy your dps, depending on the RNG, if you can't remove it, its best to slow the fight down till you can.
    It's BPE, I remove the Dust with Bracing, nearly always works.

    How is your mastery that low, assuming those are the lvl 85 crafted jewelry pieces?
    http://prntscr.com/1o4023

    I'm sure Kidefence is also referring to no bracing while using morale gearswap jewelry (at least against good reavers), so if you don't have 4-6k of 'free' morale to swap out, I wouldn't worry about no bracing.
    I don't have the appropriate gear to swap, plus I'm lagging too badly for it, atm.

    When I toy around with my reaver, the thing that strikes me most about the class compared to other classes I'm more used to (besides Guardian) is how SLOW attack animations are. What I've been working on both with warden and warg against classes with relatively slower attack speeds, is movement such that I get multiple attacks off, but my opponent only gets a single one. This is VERY hard (for me) and I'm just scratching the surface of how to do it effectively, plus you have to pay a ton of attention to your opponents animations, rather than simply their position.
    I don't have any problems with it, after practicing it a lot at GTA on my warden.

    As Illy mentions, movement is incredibly important for any class, but the faster your attack speed, the more so. Being able to mouse-turn and stay on a target is something many lotro players never grasp, that you have is good, but this is one aspect of the game that I've NEVER Seen someone truly master, unlike rotations, gearswaps, and class specific strats. E has a few players who are close though (Ekklektik and Whiskeyinmytummy when is isn't drunk come to mind).
    I can say I always face my opponent, and when I don't, it's against a warg because I want him to do positional damage so our spar ends in a draw, rather than a victory for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by vr00mie View Post
    Freep side is very gear-centric, so to actually have a chance without CDs against high ranks (Reavers=R9, Impale changes everything) I think you should go gear hunting.
    I think I shouldn't: a fight shouldn't be dependant on gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zelol View Post
    How much Crit Defense do you have? 4.5k sounds pretty meaty for only 4 hits, I usually take ~7k from 8/9 from 100% crits when sparring toe to toe. A simple increase of Morale and CD would help a lot, the real DPS race kicks in after the first Impale as most of the ranked reavers on Snowbourn will kite with Resilience until they can use it again.
    I'm only on 3,5k with the proc. Yes, it's low. I mentioned my gear, didn't I?
    I linked it in OOC, it was 2k initial hit + 863 * 3.
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    I can say I always face my opponent, and when I don't, it's against a warg because I want him to do positional damage so our spar ends in a draw, rather than a victory for me.
    Its a lot more than always facing your target, though.
    I think I shouldn't: a fight shouldn't be dependant on gear.
    You're playing on the wrong side, then.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Its a lot more than always facing your target, though.
    I mean turning/facing it whenever I want. I'm sure you too can. It's just about moving your mouse fast enough, lol

    You're playing on the wrong side, then.
    Did you look at the SS I posted? It's not that bad...
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Yes, sorry about me using bracing, I didn't notice you didn't heal till we finished our sparring. I won't next time. I have all maxed legacies, on a First Age 1h and 2h. No Rune, Rend Pulses is only at 8! But it's not really relevant to the question.



    It's BPE, I remove the Dust with Bracing, nearly always works.



    http://prntscr.com/1o4023



    I don't have the appropriate gear to swap, plus I'm lagging too badly for it, atm.



    I don't have any problems with it, after practicing it a lot at GTA on my warden.



    I can say I always face my opponent, and when I don't, it's against a warg because I want him to do positional damage so our spar ends in a draw, rather than a victory for me.



    I think I shouldn't: a fight shouldn't be dependant on gear.



    I'm only on 3,5k with the proc. Yes, it's low. I mentioned my gear, didn't I?
    I linked it in OOC, it was 2k initial hit + 863 * 3.


    By the look on your screenshot you have pretty much bad build for fighting reavers. I do not 1on1 at gta but i finghted most of reavers when finding them soloing around, never got hit with 4k hit from any impale, maybe 3k if they luck. I gto crit defence of 6k and finness on 2,5k only, while i maintain 2,4k might + 1,2k vitality, i still have around 8k tactical and 16k physical mit and 6k resistance, while overal having 13,5k moral in glory, 1k moral less in fervour, 4-3 traited.. You should re-check your jewlery, got 1st age rune, put maybe better rune legacies aswell, dont know those since u havent linked picture of legacies but 1,4k might is way to low for a champion vs reaver, you cannot dps good enough in that.

    For Crit Defence, replace rings, u will earn 2x 1,9k crit defence out from Library rings with 150might + crit defence, and vity.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by zrinko View Post
    By the look on your screenshot you have pretty much bad build for fighting reavers. I do not 1on1 at gta but i finghted most of reavers when finding them soloing around, never got hit with 4k hit from any impale, maybe 3k if they luck. I gto crit defence of 6k and finness on 2,5k only, while i maintain 2,4k might + 1,2k vitality, i still have around 8k tactical and 16k physical mit and 6k resistance, while overal having 13,5k moral in glory, 1k moral less in fervour, 4-3 traited.. You should re-check your jewlery, got 1st age rune, put maybe better rune legacies aswell, dont know those since u havent linked picture of legacies but 1,4k might is way to low for a champion vs reaver, you cannot dps good enough in that.
    Actually, I find my Brutal Strikes hitting for 1400 most of the time which sounds pretty decent to me. It's about stacking crit, not neccesarrily PM, nowadays.

    For Crit Defence, replace rings, u will earn 2x 1,9k crit defence out from Library rings with 150might + crit defence, and vity.
    I have that one, but I found a 1600 heal far superior to 2k crit defence.
    Feailuve - Akabath
    [EN]Evernight

    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

 

 

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