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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanishi View Post
    I'm glad your happy.... .00082% > balance

    And you should read into the rule more carefully... its not as much about farming rank as it is being suicidal.... there's no mention of one-shots, lava, NPCs, and/or any other environmental/accidental deaths.... fact of the matter is each case will have to be monitored closely and anyone can use a F2P account to force you to commit a crime.... either that or walk on eggshells anytime anyone is a little too easy to kill and comes right back at you....
    Downplaying how significant an issue this is to a significant part of the pvmp population doesn't make your opinion any more important. If this announcement had come 2-3 months after HD was released, I might have a different opinion. However, we were told before Sapience initially announced they were looking into Rank farming that there would be no changes to PvMP related to classes, balance, maps, etc, so to this point this announcement is a bonus in the place of getting absolutely nothing.

    Regarding your predictions about this being used as a griefing tool. Only time will tell, but 1) if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Hopefully this makes people participating in one-sided pvp think twice.

    Whether this ruling does cover all the things you mention. Whether Turbine is able to enforce it well or not is yet to be determined, but having established that rank farming is against the rules is a very clear step in the right direction for pvmp, and this community gets few enough of those as it is.

  2. #202
    Yes because no one wanted balanced PvP.... I just think things should have had a higher priority...

    I can see why turbine made this decision, because farming in itself didnt harm anyones right to enjoy the game, however it did create a toxic environment where players would behave out of character that they otherwise wouldnt have if it didnt exist... (Meaning: Because people farmed people acted so outrageous more people were being punished for harassment then there were farmers...) So to "nip it in the bud" this was the result... Don't get me wrong I am/was a farmer but I'm glad turbine made a decision... I just wish it was done more thoroughly.... technically all one would need to do is attempt to fight back and your farming session is now 1v1s that is unless that can be predetermined..... kind of hard to read the mind behind the keyboard though....
    Last edited by Zanishi; Aug 29 2013 at 01:53 AM.
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Hoppilthen View Post
    I applaud the decision in part, but not the decision not to punish past offenders.

    I have witnessed not just farming, but multi-box farming where someone had 4 orcs, following one another in sync, run from the rez to a spot where they were met by a freep and slaughtered without the orcs using even one attack in response. The person doing it, when confronted, stopped for 15 minutes, then resumed but took the multi-box characters away from the rez point in a more secretive direction.

    Single, unassisted kills, resulting in something like 100+ points times 4 orcs, repeated as rapidly as rez occurs and FOLLOW orders can be issued could, and did, rack up at least 128,000 points for one person in one 24 hour period. Using the ranking tool it was easy to see who was cheating. Players that "lived" in the Moors for 8, 10, 12 hours a day, playing honestly, gaining 10 or 12 thousand points in 24 hours while someone never seen before was gaining 120+ thousand in that same timeframe.

    In EVERY online game I am aware of, "pushing" or "farming" is considered cheating. Turbine does not have to define it as such before it becomes official cheating. The gaming community knows it. When confronted with the accusations of being punished for cheating, the responses I have heard were that Turbine would never do anything about it.

    While I applaud the effort going forward, it is sad that these cheaters were correct about their ability to get away with it. And it is sad that the damage is done and there are rank 12+ characters in the the Moors that will be able to abuse the honest players that are only now achieving rank 8 or 9.

    A better solution would have been to go through the past 3 months of 24 hour reports and subtract the daily experience gained from that person's character when they exceeded the known daily reasonable limit. For instance, the most dedicated players make some amount (say 10,000 or 20,000 points) per day. On day Y, suspected cheater X made 128,000 points so player X has his character docked that 128,000 points. He was found to have exceeded the reasonable amount on 15 other days (surprisingly the same 15 days it took him to go from rank 3 to rank 15) and so the points he made through cheating are deducted and he is essentially back where he should be at rank 3. While it could be argued that some small percentage of his points might have been honestly gained, those can be considered as the penalty assessed for cheating. because personally I would have knocked that character back to 0 points or deleted the character entirely, both in the Moors and outside...
    This person should be a Dev.

    This is the best response that any person could offer to the blatant cheating that has been going on for the last while.
    I would support this action.
    Sadly Turbine has left this too late as the Moors are now largely dead on most servers.

  4. #204
    I just want to add to all the people who think this should have been retroactive.... How can you justify punishing someone for something that wasnt against the rules? now a rule is made justice can be served appropriately...

    Think of it like this.... Before prohibition people were allowed to drink... then it was made illegal so they should have jailed everyone who ever drank? I dont think so... People even continued to go to Speak Easy's to drink and that however was illegal and people were punished... however their punishment wasnt refunded when prohibition was rejected...

    Following me? Nevermind.... Its a terrible analogy...
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Zanishi View Post
    I just want to add to all the people who think this should have been retroactive.... How can you justify punishing someone for something that wasnt against the rules? now a rule is made justice can be served appropriately...

    Think of it like this.... Before prohibition people were allowed to drink... then it was made illegal so they should have jailed everyone who ever drank? I dont think so... People even continued to go to Speak Easy's to drink and that however was illegal and people were punished... however their punishment wasnt refunded when prohibition was rejected...

    Following me? Nevermind.... Its a terrible analogy...

    Yeah...it is :P

    Clearly there is no retrospective alcohol test, whereas it would be very easy to apply the test above by looking at the digital records.

  6. #206
    but joe bob was in the clink for stabbin his brother in a bar fight... he was so drunk he didnt even remember.... still got him a nice record now though
    "There are things that go bump in the night. We're the ones who bump back." -BPRD

  7. #207
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
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    2,631
    Better late than never I suppose.
    Hellnakh | Edhellreth

  8. #208
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    1,141
    Wow thats nice...cant wait to see bans or ranks getting lowered
    Many freeps on evernight will cry

  9. #209
    I give one thumb up for the RAI but two thumbs down for the RAW.
    The RAW is one big loophole, plus inaccuracies and a fat contradiction.

    I suggest that the people from CS have a talk with the legal department to produce an iron-clad definition.

  10. #210
    The takeaway lesson for me from this is a reminder that if you find something that's beneficial to you that would be against the rules by common sense but isn't technically against the stated rules, exploit it as often as possible before it gets fixed. Perhaps I'm just a cynic.

  11. #211
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by Vezz View Post
    If I were to make a guess it was more of a Legal team issue than a dev issue, sad though that people can use loopholes in the system to get away with such atrocities.
    By loophole you mean actually playing by The Rules as they stood at the time? Yeah massive loophole that one. Anyone wanting retrospective punishment has a slightly lower than average IQ (and please note that the average IQ really is quite low anyway). Think of the precedent it sets.

  12. #212
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Australia.
    Posts
    711
    Well I guess my rage quitting aka suiciding about 50 times brfore I log because I got so frustrated and was drunk would now get me ticketed as a rank farmer??? Hahaha!

  13. #213
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    164
    As someone who's only been playing in the moors for 5 weeks, and finding 3 people doing this so far - thankyou very much

    What is the reporting mechanism? Does this have an entry in the dropdown field?

  14. #214
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England. north-west
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    2,685
    Quote Originally Posted by Scruffynerf View Post
    As someone who's only been playing in the moors for 5 weeks, and finding 3 people doing this so far - thankyou very much

    What is the reporting mechanism? Does this have an entry in the dropdown field?
    sad to hear you've found so many in your relativly short time :/ great to hear new people still come moors ^_^

    as with most reporting, you won't get told off for slightly gray area reports. if they classified everything, it could get so messy.

    under the normal report tool. exploiting / cheating I think fits best. the very fact I'm able to say that knowing thats how turbine see's it too makes me very happy

    I am very curious though. can we attach a screenshots to an off-game report feature? like /bug reports can? a picture really is worth a thousand words and if (and I have sadly) sad there for 10+ mins watching them do it, I could show times and such showing excessive deaths. it would be very very damming eidenve so super obvious cases ca just get fast tracked to save GM's time.

  15. #215
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    345
    Good policy and rule! Now let's hope it's going to be effective

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    ofc there s a gray area. but it's better than nothing...

    1v1 circles can adapt too. it's obvious who is just sparring by them actually fighting each other. if you see some people maybe 10+ times just constantly lose, don't rez them, watch the fight, screen shot lodes, after a while if it really is FC 2 things could happen, they could punish them. but the biggest thing has already happend. turbine has already made FC'ing much harder. I don't think they could ever stop it, but just to remove some people from doing it is much better than nothing by reducing those cheaters rewards.

    just posting out the message will already stop people. have they proven there words yet? no. but I'm sure many people are more scared of doing it now...

    it's really easy not to look like your FC'ing, even with there semi vague rule. it would even promote common courtesy for people to leave a greeny once and a while. you know the rules, just don't dip your finger in the red paint and no one will question you. and thats both sides. creeps/freeps who just suicide for no reason endlassly is silly. sure, the off one is funny, but just don't do it lodes if you don't want to be accused of FC. simple as.

    especially if they "warn" people. if your warned what you were doing to FC, then you go back to doing what looks like FC'ing, your pretty stupid to ignore the GM's warning -_- and the only way I can see other players abusing this if those "warned" go out and tell people they've been warned, which is told to players to never talk about infractions or anything on there account.
    This is my point, exactly, I didn't "let" them do anything, they won. I didn't make it look like anything, and it wasn't anything.

  17. #217
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Blighty
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I'm quite happy PvP got this instead of content. Fix the current moors before we get things like new maps or classes.

    For those saying too little, too late: I say better late than never.
    I agree. Yes it would have been better to have had this decision before now, but better now than not at all. For those of us on the former EU servers this is more like a return to the norm as fight clubbing/rank farming was banned under Codemasters. It is worth mentioning that during my time with Codemasters I don't remember 'false flag' situations being a problem (or even existing tbh). If Codemaster's GMs were able to accurately determine rank farming from other gameplay I would assume that Turbine's GMs will be just as capable of determining who is actually rank farming and who isn't.
    Last edited by MrWarg; Aug 29 2013 at 07:18 AM.
    [URL="http://theartofwarg.com/"]@theartofwarg[/URL]

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by wasteland View Post
    By loophole you mean actually playing by The Rules as they stood at the time? Yeah massive loophole that one. Anyone wanting retrospective punishment has a slightly lower than average IQ (and please note that the average IQ really is quite low anyway). Think of the precedent it sets.
    I'm glad that your upset about the change as it is seems to resonate through your response, and I consider it an honor to be considered by you as lower than average IQ for having a higher than average Morale Fiber which apparently so many lack....Thanks for the compliment....Oh and rules, lack of rules, loophole, lets not get into a peeing contest over semantics....it was always exploiting the game system just not clearly defined hence people did it...now that that hole in the rules has been closed I'm hoping to see an exodus of less than average "Moral Fiber" players, oh btw I think the last call to board the "Lets Cry and Find Another Game to Exploit Because We Can't Cheat Here Anymore" Train is sounding....I wouldn't want anyone negatively affected by this change to miss it.
    Last edited by Vezz; Aug 29 2013 at 08:26 AM.

  19. #219

    Thumbs up Rank/1v1/farming

    Well I am not sure I am happy or sad. Myself, I think Turbine/Lotro took way to long addressing the issues stated. Myself I have never been involved with 1v1. It changed the dynamics of pvp in the moors which in long run ruined the ability to enjoy the moors. The dynamics have changed so much in moors, how are you going to address that? After you get your maps, it almost boring. Now I love this game, kick myself every time I log on because i'm not a lifetime member. so I am already subject to over paying for the game from the lotro store. I have had many character and still do. I have listened to many people, read many things in and out of game. You can't control a lot that is said. yet the things that are said that are totally against rules most of the time you don't address. When you went to ftp you wanted to bring more people into game and hoped they would stay. yet you from the beginning didn't address the issues early on. So I am confused how you will know now who is actually farming. The fact you allow 1v1 all over the moors, you can't possible figure out who is farming or giving up. i would suggest you take a look at SWTOR and see how they do there pvp. Its is a hard issue to address 1v1, ranked farming. Will you monitor the chat programs that are out of game to see what people say? I am just stating some facts. Moors may have been an after thought, yet you know it was a good choice to go forward with it. the fact that some cheat, spam, exploit, will always be. the fact that most don't get addressed is perplexing. now that the wording in your explanations I am sure will cause a few to move onward, away from the game. Personally I don't care what happens in moors. Its the cry baby's in OOC and the horrible comments that get typed in. "I know about filter durrrr" i'm stating new people who come to moors read for and hour, don't get accepted in groups, and don't like the back stabbing, flipping from creep to freep side. So they leave. Fix the flipping, put more things to do in moors, make a 1v1 section only in moors, and cap the amount you get if you 1v1 period.

  20. #220
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Hamburg
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    389
    Maybe it's because I've never played PvMP, but why were people even getting rewarded for losing? That doesn't make sense to me.

  21. #221
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    UK
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    388
    Thank you turbine, it's an excellent decision long overdue.

  22. #222
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    5

    Exclamation

    Well im done subbing to lotro now. Know why? This new mistake of a rule will now put lotro and its players on high alert, When i see a freaver run by and i kill it? Then perhaps a defiler/wl rezzes it? What if someone sees that and reports it? What if someone calls me out for a false accusation? There was a reason they didnt implement this, and it shouldve stayed that way. Sorry but im not going to deal with the stress.

  23. #223
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    Feb 2012
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    5
    Quote Originally Posted by Xzealot55 View Post
    Well im done subbing to lotro now. Know why? This new mistake of a rule will now put lotro and its players on high alert, When i see a freaver run by and i kill it? Then perhaps a defiler/wl rezzes it? What if someone sees that and reports it? What if someone calls me out for a false accusation? There was a reason they didnt implement this, and it shouldve stayed that way. Sorry but im not going to deal with the stress.
    As if rank even mattered before this rule was implemented. Pffftt..such a joke.

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Solumbra View Post
    So the people who raid get everything again while the majority of players get the crumbs and scraps... I am officially rethinking my VIP subscription.
    Why play an MMO if you don't want to play with other people? Isn't the point of an MMO to be multiplayer?

    How does being solo prevent you from being able to legitimately play in PvMP? How does being a solo player force you to have to cheat?

    And actually, if you look at what the Devs have done to the game, it's exactly the opposite. They have dumbed everything down to the point where you don't really need to raid to do anything. Some of the best gear in the game is dropping off of and landscape mobs. Some of the best armor can be acquired by mindlessly grinding out 5 solo quests a day. And First Age weapons can be acquired by auto-piloting through three Turtle like Tier 1 raids.

    Because of all the solo type players raiders are no longer getting real raids but only "here's a boss go kill it" "raids."

    Wildermore is nothing more then an entire solo-player fest. No group quests, tons of private encounters and session plays (with all the RP to boot). And another region with mind numbing repeatable quests. Isn't that everything a solo player would want?

    It's because of people like you and your expectations that this game is almost entirely ruined.

  25. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Freia View Post
    Why play an MMO if you don't want to play with other people? Isn't the point of an MMO to be multiplayer?

    How does being solo prevent you from being able to legitimately play in PvMP? How does being a solo player force you to have to cheat?

    And actually, if you look at what the Devs have done to the game, it's exactly the opposite. They have dumbed everything down to the point where you don't really need to raid to do anything. Some of the best gear in the game is dropping off of and landscape mobs. Some of the best armor can be acquired by mindlessly grinding out 5 solo quests a day. And First Age weapons can be acquired by auto-piloting through three Turtle like Tier 1 raids.

    Because of all the solo type players raiders are no longer getting real raids but only "here's a boss go kill it" "raids."

    Wildermore is nothing more then an entire solo-player fest. No group quests, tons of private encounters and session plays (with all the RP to boot). And another region with mind numbing repeatable quests. Isn't that everything a solo player would want?

    It's because of people like you and your expectations that this game is almost entirely ruined.
    This game can also be viewed as an RP/casual solo one. Incase you havent noticed they deserve more than scraps and crumbs..

 

 
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