We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 6 of 17 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 16 ... LastLast
Results 126 to 150 of 422
  1. #126
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    If someone continuously runs into you without trying to fight...and letting you kill them...is that not participating in rank farming? I think it is...
    NO IT'S NOT.


    Good grief. What you are saying is, "okay I want to accuse this guy of rank farming because I don't like him. So what I'm going to do is, charge him over and over and if he kills me I'll report him for farming."

    Or.. Someone is having a bad day and wigs out and thinks, "since I'm dying all the time anyway, I'm going to prove something to someone by repeatedly letting these ezmoders continue to kill me so hopefully they'll eventually feel guilty".

    Neither of these are farming but both are under your definition.

    Also under your definition is this little scenario:

    "If I charge these guys over and over, they're going to have to let me live because if they don't they'll be farmers. and so I'll be able to do whatever I want."

    Again, not farming.

    Edit: Another scenario a pvmp noob is going to need to figure out another way out of the rez circle because along the same path he's been taking are the stealth packs that kill him over and over for going that way. Continuing to go that way is stupid, not farming. Except under your definition.

    The point is, you have to be able to establish INTENT. Per the definition, if the parties intend to allow their death to provide the other rank, then that is farming. That's the only measure you can uphold, anything else and turbine's going to wind up banning as many people in game as they do in the forums because they're being poor judges.

  2. #127
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    3,453
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    NO IT'S NOT.


    Good grief. What you are saying is, "okay I want to accuse this guy of rank farming because I don't like him. So what I'm going to do is, charge him over and over and if he kills me I'll report him for farming."

    Or.. Someone is having a bad day and wigs out and thinks, "since I'm dying all the time anyway, I'm going to prove something to someone by repeatedly letting these ezmoders continue to kill me so hopefully they'll eventually feel guilty".

    Neither of these are farming but both are under your definition.

    Also under your definition is this little scenario:

    "If I charge these guys over and over, they're going to have to let me live because if they don't they'll be farmers. and so I'll be able to do whatever I want."

    Again, not farming.

    The point is, you have to be able to establish INTENT. Per the definition, if the parties intend to allow their death to provide the other rank, then that is farming. That's the only measure you can uphold, anything else and turbine's going to wind up banning as many people in game as they do in the forums because they're being poor judges.

    I see that...but not totally true.

    A) okay I want to accuse this guy of rank farming because I don't like him. So what I'm going to do is, charge him over and over and if he kills me I'll report him for farming."

    that is trolling...and baiting...that is EXACTLY what they are trying to do. HE (the guy charging to troll) is participating in farming...HE can possibly get in trouble. if you take the bait...well you can be in hot water as well.

    B) Or.. Someone is having a bad day and wigs out and thinks, "since I'm dying all the time anyway, I'm going to prove something to someone by repeatedly letting these ezmoders continue to kill me so hopefully they'll eventually feel guilty".

    Again...not farming by YOUR definition. By Turbine's definition...YES this is farming. Turbine does not care about what YOU consider farming...but what THEY consider farming. DO I agree with you that it is not farming. Yeah. But Turbine does not go off of what you or I say.


    C) "If I charge these guys over and over, they're going to have to let me live because if they don't they'll be farmers. and so I'll be able to do whatever I want."

    again...THIS guy will get in trouble for attempting to farm. Or at least troll.

    You are right there are other grey areas and I am going off of Turbine's definition. I'm sure some will be more case by case and it does not cover every scenario. But according to Turbine's definition. These are considered farming. On both sides? No..but one side can still get in trouble for something

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Witch Kings Seventh Legion
    Bubblez - Defiler
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

  3. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    NO IT'S NOT.


    Good grief. What you are saying is, "okay I want to accuse this guy of rank farming because I don't like him. So what I'm going to do is, charge him over and over and if he kills me I'll report him for farming."

    Or.. Someone is having a bad day and wigs out and thinks, "since I'm dying all the time anyway, I'm going to prove something to someone by repeatedly letting these ezmoders continue to kill me so hopefully they'll eventually feel guilty".

    Neither of these are farming but both are under your definition.

    Also under your definition is this little scenario:

    "If I charge these guys over and over, they're going to have to let me live because if they don't they'll be farmers. and so I'll be able to do whatever I want."

    Again, not farming.
    According to the official definition of "rank farming" the above IS rank farming for both sides. Initially it isn't for the side that is doing the killing. But once that side sees the person suicides over and over (aka surrendering their characterer) then any kill after that is the participation of rank farming.

    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    Participation in Rank Farming is an abuse of our game mechanics, and against our rules. Customer Service can identify this behavior and will take the appropriate action on both accounts involved

  4. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy; resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank.

    Zerging solo? A solo is not a zerg

    but in seriousness,

    If they are running into you...not attempting to kill you...they are participating in rank farming. YOU might not be...but they are...according to the above statement. If you continuously take advantage of said player jumping around while you kill them...Now YOU are participating in rank farming.


    You're one of the people that little line about improperly reporting people for rank farming was made for whether you know it or not. I don't even think that you would think you were doing it improperly. The line above is referencing two people, one freep and one creep, one is there specifically to let the other one kill them. That's all. Spinning that simple statement 1000 different ways and looking for all the possible nuances of what could be called farming is probably one of the main contributing factors to why it took so long to get an official word on it.


    Attended by Coldaen

  5. #130
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    I see that...but not totally true.
    Yes it's totally true. Look, I'm not interested in winning an argument here. It's not about debate, this is important, so quit trying to win a debate and actually think.

    Under your definition a person will be able to manipulate another person into getting into trouble for farming. I listed off four easy ways and that was without even trying other people given time will think of even more ways. In my scenario's the intent was never rank. It was always something else:

    S1: I'm going to manipulate this guy into getting reported for rank farming by running into him over and over. The intent isn't to help him achieve his rank. It's to get him in trouble.

    S2: I'm going to make them feel guilty for killing me over and over by running into them. The intent isn't to help them gain ranks, its to make them feel guilty.

    S3: I'm going to charge them over and over until they can't kill me anymore or they'll be farmers. The intent isn't to help them gain ranks, its to get them to leave me alone.

    S4: Omg here comes that greenie again - /kill. The intent this time is on the greenies end.. He's not intending to provide rank to his killer, he's just trying to get out of the rez circle the only way he (currently) knows how.

    Read the definition:

    "“Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy; resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank. "

    This is a clumsily reworked statement that basically says that both parties need be complicit in one of the parties intention to add to the achievement of their rank.

    Do you see? Onus (intent) is on both parties.

    Party 1: "intentional surrender of your character to an enemy"

    Party 2: "resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank"

  6. #131
    Since the damage, whatever its effects, is already done, here is what I would do.

    1) Reset all ranks to 0

    2) Aside from LIs, make all gear moors-only, combined with 3 & 4 this would make balance between freep/creep much easier

    3) Auto-grant all creep skills upon entry/give all freeps their armour/jewellery(would probably require giving creeps actual armour/gear for balance)

    4) All gear would increase in potency upon ranking, ie higher stats, armour rating, scaling set bonuses, etc

    5) Vigorously enforce anti-farming policy

    With relatively uniform gearing(aside from rank based potency), balance would be maintained, rank would have actual meaning, and individual skill would again become the primary factor in determining victory(aside from zergs, don't even ask me how to address that)

  7. #132

    Thanks

    Well, as a newish person in the Moors, I'm glad to see this. Was concerned that rank farming was going to be more or less required, and it's not how I want to spend my time. Good work.

  8. #133
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,286
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    It is not. And I'd encourage people to read the full policy. Especially the provision for false reports.
    How will 1v1 stalemates be handled?

    I once had a 1v1 that went on for a good 20 minutes or so. Finally my opponent renamed his banner while fighting to give me a stalemate notice. We both gave up, gave each other a /bow (when out of combat) and moved on to the next 1v1. But what if we spend that 20m fighting and finally decide to surrender? 20m of honest, hard fighting and no reward is fine, and that's what we did, but what if someone decides to give up? It was still 20m of honest, hard fighting. If you are so evenly matched that neither will win fairly, it seems a shame at times to just give up and walk away after so much effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhimlaith View Post
    Additionally, as a primary solo player, if I encounter, say, 12 creeps at Lugz crossroads, is it "intentional surrender" not to fight back? A 1v12 isn't a winnable situation (unless you're a warden ), so would simply allowing them to kill me and move along be surrendering, despite the fact that any action I take would have no affect on the outcome of the fight?
    I have also been in this situation. I'm usually in a group, but I frequently get separated or whatever. I'm running to my destination (on horseback of course) and get waylaid by a craid. I have a snowball's chance in Hades of surviving, so what is the point in trying? I could waste my bubbles and other heals with super long timers trying to survive a hopeless situation, or I can stand still and just let them whack away. Waste my skills in that situation, or try to hurry the process so that I can retreat to the rez circle and get back on track to my destination (by another route, of course). Is that rank farming? Did I want to die? No. But I also didn't want to waste my time/skills trying to survive.
    R5 100 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
    R8 100 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/100 HNT Dinenol/102 RK Dhurik
    100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
    R9 105 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval

  9. #134
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Chicagoland Area
    Posts
    32

    The attempt is appreciated, but ...

    I am grateful that someone finally has brought it to your attention the existence of rank farming and, perhaps, the increase in this behavior. I agree that it is unsportsmanlike and should be nipped in the butt asap ... However, I think I need to point out a few things.

    By human nature, people will exploit any weakness they find in a system to gain any sort of positive advantage they may find. In this case, it is the increase in rank by exploiting weaker opponents (i.e. freeps vs. creeps). From what I have seen and have experienced personally, it is a large percentage of freeps exploiting creeps because they can, period. I am not even going to bring in the topic of what rank vs what rank because, with the recent changes it doesn't matter. Freeps are simply over powered; so much so that high ranking creeps cannot compete with them (and, yes, I have said it before in forums and I will say it again and again). And, for the record, I play a creep. And, even more importantly, because of this rank farming behavior I have not touched my creep in weeks because I was being exploited by freep players and I felt seriously wronged by the encounters. That I saw it was a common place occurrence made me realize how not fun participating in PVMP can be.

    You might wonder 'Why did I not report these incidences of rank farming?' Would it have mattered? The impression I get is this is what Turbine wanted or they would not have changed what they did in PVMP. More importantly, Turbine would have realized how people would react. Since this did not happen and rank farming has become such a common place occurrence that there has to be a policy made to stop it ... Well, should I applaud or scold you?

    Anyway, all I can say is be aware of it. Do something about it. And, do not disappoint us again.
    [IMG]http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff98/Amberdrake67/sig-lotro2_zps2d1c9938.jpg[/IMG]
    Have fun storming the castle!

  10. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post

    I once had a 1v1 that went on for a good 20 minutes or so. Finally my opponent renamed his banner while fighting to give me a stalemate notice. We both gave up, gave each other a /bow (when out of combat) and moved on to the next 1v1. But what if we spend that 20m fighting and finally decide to surrender? 20m of honest, hard fighting and no reward is fine, and that's what we did, but what if someone decides to give up? It was still 20m of honest, hard fighting. If you are so evenly matched that neither will win fairly, it seems a shame at times to just give up and walk away after so much effort.
    I think it's giving yourself up to be killed from the start, or the intention of doing so before engaging. I know they're not going to get everyone (they never will), but I feel this definition will get most of the farmers the punishment they deserve.

  11. #136
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,831
    One can only assume the reason for this "clarification" is the fact Turbine feels they can renew old player base and restore faith in current player base. After years of being ignored and kicked to the curb.

    Some of the best and nicest players I have met online, have moved onto bigger and better games due to years of ignoring this issue, and disgust watching someone get rank in days which they took a year to get. This has left a sour taste in many players mouths including myself, and regardless of this rule it will be hard pressed to actually enforce it in a timely matter. (We all see how long GMs take to reply)

    Thanks to LOTRO, Turbine in my opinion will be forever known as a money grab game, and the "fans" will be a foremost thought. If it doesn't benefit Turbine, then why implement it? New logo?


    Signed - Too little to late

  12. #137
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    4,312
    so is 6 boxing or 8 boxing playing the game as intended????????


    lets fix that also for pvp


    kk thanks
    A tree is a tree, a Rock is a rock and a Troll is Elmo

  13. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Read the definition:

    "“Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy; resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank. "

    This is a clumsily reworked statement that basically says that both parties need be complicit in one of the parties intention to add to the achievement of their rank.

    Do you see? Onus (intent) is on both parties.

    Party 1: "intentional surrender of your character to an enemy"

    Party 2: "resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank"
    To be honest the definition isn't very clear at all.

    "Participation in Rank Farming is an abuse of our game mechanics, and against our rules."

    This is how I'd say your previous examples go:

    Party 1: his intent is to be farmed.

    Party 2: he is participating in farming said character

    Result: both are rank farming.

    P.S. I kinda agree with you that both need the intent to be considered rank farming but the official definition is horrible. Taking turbines definition this is how I would describe it:

    player 1: kills opponent who does not fight back 300 times.

    player 2: intentionally surrenders to player 1 300 times.

    If I took the definition in black and white player 1 cannot be a rank farmer simply because he has not surrendered his character. Player 2 is the rank farmer (who laughably didn't gain any points himself and doesn't rank up). The player who got his points would not suffer any consequences and the player who didn't gain points would. It's not a very clear definition imo.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; Aug 28 2013 at 05:46 PM.

  14. #139
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Afk in Grams/GV
    Posts
    642
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    I see that...but not totally true.

    A) okay I want to accuse this guy of rank farming because I don't like him. So what I'm going to do is, charge him over and over and if he kills me I'll report him for farming."

    that is trolling...and baiting...that is EXACTLY what they are trying to do. HE (the guy charging to troll) is participating in farming...HE can possibly get in trouble. if you take the bait...well you can be in hot water as well.

    B) Or.. Someone is having a bad day and wigs out and thinks, "since I'm dying all the time anyway, I'm going to prove something to someone by repeatedly letting these ezmoders continue to kill me so hopefully they'll eventually feel guilty".

    Again...not farming by YOUR definition. By Turbine's definition...YES this is farming. Turbine does not care about what YOU consider farming...but what THEY consider farming. DO I agree with you that it is not farming. Yeah. But Turbine does not go off of what you or I say.


    C) "If I charge these guys over and over, they're going to have to let me live because if they don't they'll be farmers. and so I'll be able to do whatever I want."

    again...THIS guy will get in trouble for attempting to farm. Or at least troll.

    You are right there are other grey areas and I am going off of Turbine's definition. I'm sure some will be more case by case and it does not cover every scenario. But according to Turbine's definition. These are considered farming. On both sides? No..but one side can still get in trouble for something
    From this post all I see is turbine is going to be ban happy, and possibly hurt PvP even more.

    "Thinking you can do something is confidence; doing something is competence"
    Bannerman, r11 War-Leader/
    Ryzer, r13 Captain/ Ryzur, Minstrel.
    Skill and Valour/Divide Et Impera, Landroval. .



  15. #140
    Just help me out folks as am short on time and not been through all the pages.

    But say for example I run out to the fields, and I get jumped by 5/6 wargs, there's no chance I can win that as I'm not that great at PVP. So to save all CD's and such, I'll often just throw in the towel.

    But based on the rule now, this would in effect mean I'm rank farming, when I can assure you that's not the case, but why waste pots and skills on a fight you know 100% certain you cannot win nor escape?
    ~Commander Zaddoc the Undying
    The Lost Alliance, Evernight
    twitter.com/STARS_TyranT

  16. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    Hello, I’m River, Customer Service Manager at Turbine.

    For some time now, the Customer Service team has been reading your comments and thoughts regarding “rank farming’. Together with the Developers, Community team, and players council we have come up with a clear, official definition and policy regarding “rank farming” in the Ettenmoors.

    “Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy; resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank. Rank Farming is specific to Ettenmoors PvMP (Freep vs. Monster Player). The enemy can be controlled by any player - either the same player controlling the surrendering character, or someone else.

    Participation in Rank Farming is an abuse of our game mechanics, and against our rules. Customer Service can identify this behavior and will take the appropriate action on both accounts involved, based on our findings. This activity can also be reported to the in-game staff for review.

    This policy is effective immediately and is *not retroactive*. We will not be taking action on previous potential violations. Any reports filed should be of actions witnessed after the publication of this policy.

    Please remember that we have multiple ways to verify players are participating in this behavior. Additionally, players who frequently report others falsely may also be subject to disciplinary action for harassment.
    yessssss ty you turbine you did something right!
    Trashboth-Trashladden
    [IMG]https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/674x475q90/540/okyUr8.jpg[/IMG]

  17. #142
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    nah
    You just want to muddy the waters to legitimize your continued farming. I really don't care what you have to say.

  18. #143
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    3,453
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosttaker View Post
    You're one of the people that little line about improperly reporting people for rank farming was made for whether you know it or not. I don't even think that you would think you were doing it improperly. The line above is referencing two people, one freep and one creep, one is there specifically to let the other one kill them. That's all. Spinning that simple statement 1000 different ways and looking for all the possible nuances of what could be called farming is probably one of the main contributing factors to why it took so long to get an official word on it.
    I'm confused. Sorry. Maybe I couldnt equate what you were trying to say from the post. I am just going off of the definition. Why are you saying that I myself am going to do these things? I am just giving a hypothetical outcome. According to the definition...Suiciding into a person over and over *surrendering to defeat* is a form of rank farming.

    How many times has someone run into a raid over and over and you tell them to quit feeding them? Sure there are many MANY situations that are not rank farming...but those minute changes cease to be rank farming *I.E. running into a raid to get a lowbie kill.

    Yes I would be cautious in reporting. But if someone is running into a group, and jumping up and down trying to get someone to kill him...unless turbine says otherwise, yeah I'm going to at least screenshot it and bring it up either on the forums or through email on whether or not that is rank farming. And then report if it is.

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Witch Kings Seventh Legion
    Bubblez - Defiler
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

  19. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    You just want to muddy the waters to legitimize your continued farming. I really don't care what you have to say.

    I'm not legitimizing anything. Just pointing out how messy the wording is and that given there is an official definition of rank farming it's still a very murky area. GMs or whoever looks into it will have to take into account their personal views on the situation which means people will get banned for one action while another player will get reported for the same action and not get banned. It will depend on who responds to the tickets and what their personal take of the official definition is (which can clearly be different)

  20. #145
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    355
    This is a noble effort, but it is impossible to enforce except against the stupidest rank farmers. Anyone can fight and make the fight look good on paper and still lose.

    I fight you for a reasonable amount of time and we both do damage and use skills; then one person dies by private pre-arranged decision. Now prove it is rank farming. And there is no way to get better at pvp than to practice and learn how, so anyone who is new to the moors and/or just not good at pvp (but still enjoys is) stands to be accused.

    Try to make it challenging and fight using less than perfect gear? oh no, you're rank farming.

    The list is literally endless. All you have to do is make it look good on statistical analysis and it's a done deal.

    Maybe it will take a small amount of time over several more days to achieve your rank-farming goals. But you can still do it, easily.

  21. #146
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,280
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaddoc View Post
    but why waste pots and skills on a fight you know 100% certain you cannot win nor escape?
    Never give up. If you keep fighting, maybe they will get killed by someone else while they try to flee the area with your toes.

  22. #147
    Great news now you can address the multi-boxers farming level 85 areas to increase drop chances of lootboxes, Keys and horselords recipes. Turbine really needs to enforce email verification since this is how they are exploiting the FTP process. I know this because the leader is my former kin does this with is 8 multiboxers just to farm gold and screw up the server economy.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000084b6f/signature.png]Uluwen[/charsig]

  23. #148
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    113
    Thank you Turbine, an excellent move and a step towards a better PvP experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by ColorSpecs View Post
    Look, I'm not interested in winning an argument here. It's not about debate, this is important, so quit trying to win a debate and actually think.
    Yes you are, that's blatantly obvious




    Yicky, check your Spiders FB messages please
    Last edited by CreepHiveMind; Aug 28 2013 at 06:25 PM.

  24. #149
    *********“Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy**********

    Does this include...

    -Stopping to emote at an enemy?
    -One vs. one circles where not everyone is engaged in combat at all times?
    -A person intentionally running out of a rez circle to make it seem like people are farming?
    -If so then is it just the former punished or all parties involved?
    -Going afk at a conspicuous location?
    -Not assisting a fellow player because they are 1v1ing?

    I ask this because all the above in some other games are punishable offenses and it wasn't made clear in this policy change. Thank you.

  25. #150
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    17
    Quote Originally Posted by Apache140 View Post
    *********“Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy**********

    Does this include...

    -Stopping to emote at an enemy?
    -One vs. one circles where not everyone is engaged in combat at all times?
    -A person intentionally running out of a rez circle to make it seem like people are farming?
    -If so then is it just the former punished or all parties involved?
    -Going afk at a conspicuous location?
    -Not assisting a fellow player because they are 1v1ing?

    I ask this because all the above in some other games are punishable offenses and it wasn't made clear in this policy change. Thank you.
    I don't see any problem. Ranking farming is defined as the INTENTIONAL surrender of YOUR character to an enemy. Replying to your questions in order, then,

    - no; that's not intentionally surrendering, is it?
    - no, see above
    - no, same as #1 and if you die, it's your fault, isn't it?
    - no, you're not forced to aid allies; besides, if they're 1v1ing they might not even want your help

 

 
Page 6 of 17 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 16 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload