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  1. #76
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    Even though I really appreciate the fact clubbers will be prosecuted, it is too late. The damage is done.
    Clubbing...not to be confused with 1v1'ing. The policy states intentionally surrendering your character, which basically means not fighting back. So, 1v1'ing will still be permitted.

  2. #77
    Its good to see a long over due official stance but having hinted at taking retrospective punishment in the past and now stating that there will be none is disappointing.
    NeXus on Snowbourn: Currently recruiting raid ready and available characters.
    Blister: Lvl 65 Champion Blostor: Lvl 65 Hunter Ruthod: Lvl 65 Loremaster
    Trandir: Lvl 65 Runekeeper Handlebar: Lvl 65 Burg Blisty: Lvl 65 Minstrel
    Litter: Lvl 3? Warden Jedweird: Lvl 3? Captain

  3. #78
    I applaud the decision in part, but not the decision not to punish past offenders.

    I have witnessed not just farming, but multi-box farming where someone had 4 orcs, following one another in sync, run from the rez to a spot where they were met by a freep and slaughtered without the orcs using even one attack in response. The person doing it, when confronted, stopped for 15 minutes, then resumed but took the multi-box characters away from the rez point in a more secretive direction.

    Single, unassisted kills, resulting in something like 100+ points times 4 orcs, repeated as rapidly as rez occurs and FOLLOW orders can be issued could, and did, rack up at least 128,000 points for one person in one 24 hour period. Using the ranking tool it was easy to see who was cheating. Players that "lived" in the Moors for 8, 10, 12 hours a day, playing honestly, gaining 10 or 12 thousand points in 24 hours while someone never seen before was gaining 120+ thousand in that same timeframe.

    In EVERY online game I am aware of, "pushing" or "farming" is considered cheating. Turbine does not have to define it as such before it becomes official cheating. The gaming community knows it. When confronted with the accusations of being punished for cheating, the responses I have heard were that Turbine would never do anything about it.

    While I applaud the effort going forward, it is sad that these cheaters were correct about their ability to get away with it. And it is sad that the damage is done and there are rank 12+ characters in the the Moors that will be able to abuse the honest players that are only now achieving rank 8 or 9.

    A better solution would have been to go through the past 3 months of 24 hour reports and subtract the daily experience gained from that person's character when they exceeded the known daily reasonable limit. For instance, the most dedicated players make some amount (say 10,000 or 20,000 points) per day. On day Y, suspected cheater X made 128,000 points so player X has his character docked that 128,000 points. He was found to have exceeded the reasonable amount on 15 other days (surprisingly the same 15 days it took him to go from rank 3 to rank 15) and so the points he made through cheating are deducted and he is essentially back where he should be at rank 3. While it could be argued that some small percentage of his points might have been honestly gained, those can be considered as the penalty assessed for cheating. because personally I would have knocked that character back to 0 points or deleted the character entirely, both in the Moors and outside...

  4. #79
    What about commendations farming?
    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Chandler, AZ
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    What about commendations farming?
    Getting comms by farming a player still results in rank farming as you are gaining rank from the kill.

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Arkenstone{LOTRO Player Council member 3 years}
    The Black Appendage of Sauron - Leader
    Orenia | Shaxell | Ornethia: Misadventurers Kinship - Arkenstone

  6. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    Getting comms by farming a player still results in rank farming as you are gaining rank from the kill.
    I don't know if he's talking about rerolling freavers to farm comms, or other ways to farm comms without killing, but since you can farm bounder tokens... don't think there is a problem.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Grams Rock - Complaining!
    Overall this is great news, although i would love to know what the punishments will be. Its a step in the right direction for the future also, which is good news.

    However the fact so many have now reached the higher tiers of R13/14 and 15 is a disgrace to the people who earned it previously, and fairly over the past 5/6 years. These farmers, of which many are on snowbourn now have a distinct advantage over lower ranks due to the promotions obtained through rank, more over the weapons they can now obtain freep side (1st agers).

    I have no understanding as to why previous farmers with enough evidance cannot be delt with, as long as the chain of evidance is pure and clear.
    Snowbourn - Commander Shakbasher - Lieutenant Glurf

    Warriors of The Great Eye

  8. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by GrandCru View Post
    Do you? After being publicly told you had no way, I am glad you finally found multiple
    The way this kind of feature works at the companies I work for as software developer. Customer Service puts in a feature request to development - We got no way to do it. Can you help Bunny? We got thru a time consuming process of trying to figure out what we can do to help out our buddies in customer service, change the software. We start going around the test the changes - have customer service play with - get the Not exactly what we wanted Bunny - We will make more changes for our buddies in Customer Service.

    It often not an easy process. I have a rough time understanding what customer service wants to detect. What kind of changes to the application are necessary to support their internal tooling and procedures. In many ways it is more difficult dealing with Customer Service properly than it is trying to get the application work properly for the customers (end users).

    This situation is made more difficult because you are casting a net in the ocean of customers. You want to net the sharks not the dolphins. I can see how they could end up with say three nets. The potential shark (rank farmer) gets caught in all three nets. Or there are different kinds of sharks. Each net is designed to catch a specific kind shark (way of rank farming).
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Charlotte, NC

    2 years late

    As evidence of my being unsubscribed for 10 months, I decided the biggest offender of rank farming is you, Turbine.

    With inflated renown and rewards for bad play, you have enabled the worst offenders.

    Keep on not fixing anything! Not re-subscribing anytime soon.

    Fellrotten - Rank 12 Battlemaster LM - Zero Stars. Survivor of the Barrow-Downs. Ivar's Champion. Embarassing Completionist
    Soccercake - 93 Dude Minstrel
    Mulieribus - 93 Dorf Champion
    Rahey - 93 Hobbit-Hunter
    Anniemal - 92 Elf RK
    Pueblo - 77 Cappy!

  10. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    Participation in Rank Farming is an abuse of our game mechanics.
    And Multiboxing in a competitive Area like Ettenmoors, using exsternal programs to move 5+ character is not an abuse of your game mechanics? But don't worry, i don't really care, i deleted my subscrition that will end on 9th of September and i'm realy fine in this way

    By the way good job turbine, you solved one of the PvMP problems, it was so sad to see people that don't know how to PvP ranking up even if i would put penalities to guys who reached high ranks (12+) with this system but would be unfair to punish someone for something he did when it was not prohibited but still against the common morality.

  11. #86
    Join Date
    May 2007
    3 Fountain Street, Bromburg, Bree Homesteads
    I hope the other rank 15 warg on E gets banned now, he used to be known as Farmpaws of Firefoot and rank farmed from r0-r15 then transferred to E with a name change as if no one would notice the sudden appearance of (at the time) the only rank 15 warg in the US. This player abused the system and has tarnished the achievements of anyone looking to rank a warg.
    -Azsouth the Hand of Doom of Elendilmir, Rank 15 Warg
    Originator of the 1st Good 1v1 Thread (Meneldor)

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    But like others have said how is this going to be enforced? Are you going to look at the combat logs and if one does not fight back it will be looked into and if continuously happening the people will be banned?
    You know Star Wars Galaxies tried to enforce something like this with their PvP and it never really went to far, and id so love to see how LOTRO is going to manage to make this happen!
    And oh btw this is just a game and if people are so painfully being pissed off about others getting free rank & glory tbh who cares, i mean this is a game for christs sakes and if one does not like it so what i mean it happens all the time in games wither it be WoW, SMITE, SWTOR, SWG or even LOTRO!
    Last edited by Dragolith; Aug 28 2013 at 02:04 PM.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jun 2011

    What if..

    What if a 'freaver' or any other creep/freep runs into you continually with little chance of winning, attacks you. You sort of have to fight back don't you? This has happened to me before when camping on the bridge between the GY and Aradors end OP. I just want to know if this is wrong/right and whether you should leave.

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Charlotte, NC
    Thanks Sapience. Now I know I cannot have an opinion without being 'Trolling' and receiving an infraction.

    The game mechanics itself encourage and are rank farming.

    Fellrotten - Rank 12 Battlemaster LM - Zero Stars. Survivor of the Barrow-Downs. Ivar's Champion. Embarassing Completionist
    Soccercake - 93 Dude Minstrel
    Mulieribus - 93 Dorf Champion
    Rahey - 93 Hobbit-Hunter
    Anniemal - 92 Elf RK
    Pueblo - 77 Cappy!

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Good, now:

    1) Remove open tapping for points
    2) Remove Audacity
    3) Remove Maps and buff March! to 168% speed
    4) Remove all AOE rezzing, both in and out of combat from both sides
    5) Give creeps spike damage instead of dots
    6) Apply a zone while debuff to reduce crit mag, both sides
    7) Disallow multiboxing in the moors
    8) Buff keep npcs so they actually mean something
    9) Remove all creep "improved" skills and corruptions from the store
    10) Put brands and insignias back the way they used to be
    11) Change the Outpost buffs to something less gamebreaking than increasing mastery or just do away with them
    12) fix the lag (but I believe you're working on that, I do.)
    13) Disallow target forwarding

    And then we'd have a pvmp system that still is as fun as its always been but feels a bit more legit.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragolith View Post
    But like others have said how is this going to be enforced? Are you going to look at the combat logs and if one does not fight back it will be looked into and if continuously happening the people will be banned?
    I'm not personally concerned about the technical means available to enforce it, they say they have such. I'm more dubious about the manpower involved. If properly investigating each report takes x minutes, and there are y reports/day, and x*y is not a pretty small number, will they choose to devote the resources needed to handle it? Or will they make examples of a few people and hope that deters the rest?

  17. #92
    Edit: Someone already posted what I wanted to say. How do I delete a post?

  18. #93

    A day late and a dollar short

    It's unfortunate that it took Turbine and the player's council *rolls eyes* to come up with a definition for cheating and notification that said cheaters will get in trouble.

    I honestly don't understand why it took this long to be identified as a problem and a notification of discipline for said bad behavior. People have been reporting farmers for well over eight months. Turbine would not even discipline self professed farmers (even the ones that admitted to it on the forums).

    The regrettable fact of the matter is that Turbine's inaction to rank farmer really helped speed along the death of PvMP and the death of this game. This new announcement is quite frankly too late to make a difference. If you were going to retroactively punish people (which I think you should because they did nothing short of exploiting the game mechanics) it might actually help the situation. But without the punishment hundreds of players, and in the case of Crickhollow, 90% of the Freep population has gotten away with their cheating. What incentive do I have to actually log into the game and PvMP against a bunch of cheaters and exploiters who have the rank (and therefore OP Battlefield promotion) and their shiny gear from farming?

    This is all a day late and a dollar short.
    Freia - Level 85 Elf Minstrel, Crickhollow
    Loge - Level 85 Elf Loremaster, Crickhollow
    Brunhilde - Level 85 Hobbit Burglar, Crickhollow
    Nimrodiel - Weaver, Crickhollow

  19. #94

    Thumbs up thank u turbine for paying attention to the moors a lot more needs to be done

    [but at least this is a start too bad about the retroactive since those cheat farmers r now being rewarded for their efforts (or lack of) i hope and encourage turbine to continue to work on the moors since like myself there r dedicated players there--- i dont freep in the moors --- my freeps stay where it is safe i dont want them in xik's soup pots ---lol lol lol lol --- ive played a lot of online games and this 1 is so unique in the opposing classes and races we get to play (weak as they r from lack of update) and to have that cheat makes for an unpleasant atmosphere --- i have nothing against multi boxing or multi accounts --it is the rank cheating that is done through abuse of of this technologic loop hole that is disturbing to most of us (cant understand why it has taking so long to act upon) ive have sent in pics and so have my fellow comrades in arms about this issue for years and nothing was said about it let alone acted upon TILL NOW

    i applaud turbine for this and will continue to sustain my vip account status --- and any other goodies i can get in the store so i can survive out there hahahahahahahaahahah

    now if i could only get my flies back and better heals at least a couple more i can use on the move

    oh by the way i have a lot more great ideas for both sides for pvp it would be a blast --- ideas ive garnered from playing 15 creeps on 7 worlds so ive collected a ton of ideas from players

    many cheers for the moors the best place on Gods green middle earth


  20. #95
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    7th Circle of Hell
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    This is easily the best announcement Turbine has made in 18+ months, thank you.

    I've had some nail-biting fights with freavers that involved me only using auto-attack, and I've not won them all. Does this change mean a fight I'm trying to win with only auto-attack can be reported as the freaver rank farming me?
    A lot of the comments that I have been reading seem to be splitting hairs, (not yours Deso dear, just linking your quote for context) though asking for the specific parameters so there is no grey area for those who may not know what straight up, in your face, farming looks like. Heck I refer to this recent snapshot from just two days prior to the "Official Verdict", guess this person is lucky they got theirs in before it was proclaimed as breaking the rules.

    Of course any identifiers have been removed to preserve the anonymity of said person who, and I do quote: "Only doing it to rank 5 because I want the moors to be fun when I'm in a zerg and not die all the time."

    this is one freep, killing alternately two defilers (so that one can rez the other) I followed the one defiler, watched them bring in the other defiler, then watched the freep approach shortly thereafter to a quite remote spot up by the wolves south-west of Dar, way past where even Plains OP used to be.
    Anat ~ Damspider, The Black Blade
    Teslafoil ~ Allure, WeGotThis

    "Cry 'Havoc!', and let slip the dogs of war"

  21. #96
    I think the moors should just be reset.

  22. #97
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Quote Originally Posted by fgsdfgergfd View Post
    I think the moors should just be reset.
    I agree they should do this.

  23. #98

    Thank you

    Great news this is.

    Allthough I understand the retro-active part in this, I still think that it's a shame.
    For the ''players'' involved in this, aren't interrested in playing the game in general.
    They're more interrested in having a high lvl toon on any on-line game.

    Their behaviour towards other players is downright abusive.
    Not only wouldn't they be missed, the overall atmosphere on the server
    would improve greatly, not to mention the gameplay itself.

    That being said;

    I'm grateful that you took the time to take a stand in this and that you've
    provided us with clear guidelines concerning the matter.


    p.s. I would also be interrested in your views concerning ''spamming''; spam-tracking, heal-spamming ect.

  24. #99
    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Too little, too late...

    ...and now that leaderboards are down, what possible value does Rank or infamy/renown gains have in this game, besides getting skills and skins, most of which are available in the store.

    On the other hand, why should it have mattered in the first place, if someone takes a week or years to get Rank 15? Took me years to get Rank 12, but that's because of my pacing and gameplay, not because someone else getting to Rank 12 first, kept me from Rank 12. Just sayin....

  25. #100
    So, wow. I must be living in a closet because i had no idea peeps were doing this. No wonder there are so many high level toons out there!


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