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  1. #26
    A quick question, Its not something I have done but I have thought about it. say for instance all of my kinship started a bunch of new creeps to face off my warden and see how many (if they could) take my warden down. It is obvious that a bunch of R0 toons would struggle to take down a warden. If someone were to sit down on the sidelines and video this as evidence of farming, what would the action be? There would be no willful submission but I can see how it would look bad. Again, havent done this yet and havent even finished leveling my warden since RoR but its something that would be fun.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000003bfae5/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    This policy is effective immediately and is *not retroactive*. We will not be taking action on previous potential violations. Any reports filed should be of actions witnessed after the publication of this policy.
    What a surprise!


    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    Please remember that we have multiple ways to verify players are participating in this behavior.
    Do you? After being publicly told you had no way, I am glad you finally found multiple
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  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    If you do it over and over and over....yes
    Where is the line drawn? Twice? Five times? Ten times?

  4. *golf clap*
    Good to see this finally become official.
    The Lone Wolf
    Radspakr 85 Guardian,Haluilas 82 LM, Varri 65 Champ

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Finally! Thanks.

    Regarding 1vs1s...
    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    “Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character [...]
    Since both players are actively fighting in a 1vs1, I can't see the "intentional surrender" there and thus no danger of being banned... I think (hope) they considered this in their "multiple ways of proving".
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhoris_they_spider View Post
    Where is the line drawn? Twice? Five times? Ten times?
    I would say twice you are at least in dangerous territory if not already in the fire

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  7. #32
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    How does one file a report for this? With a ticket, or just report for harassment?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwarfThar View Post
    Finally! Thanks.

    Regarding 1vs1s...

    Since both players are actively fighting in a 1vs1, I can't see the "intentional surrender" there and thus no danger of being banned... I think (hope) they considered this in their "multiple ways of proving".
    the easy way would be to look at the actual fight...were both toon actually using legitimate attempts to kill the other and not die? Or was one toon hitting low based skills every couple of seconds and not showing legitimate effort

    Yicky(R13) Weaver - Now Brandywiner{LOTRO Player Council member}
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  9. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    259
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    A lot of thought went into this...

    ...and this is exactly why we chose not to make it retroactive.
    Fair comment.

    Sapience how will reports be managed? Will screenshots be accepted? Will you check combat logs? Etc etc.

  10. #35
    good job dev lads only took you 2 years to discover what clubbing is...
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  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    about ranks

    except this rnak farming,shouldnt u purchse more ranks?the infamy/reknown gain with dungeon buffs and acceleration tomes is huge...rank up should be much slower cause it destroys soloing and make people raiding to get more and more.they grind even in pvp

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Snowbourn
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    1,126
    Thankyou Turbine, that you have finally come to senses.

    Funny that you now have "multiple" means of checking and before told us many times you had no way of actually checking....

    Sad that the clubbers who have been active the last months and already gained rank15 are not punished. (It would be easy enough to define those - anybody who gets more than 30k infamy/renown per day is rank farming).


    One question remains:
    What will be the punishment? These people are changing the balance to large extent - i hope it is not just a slap on the hands or a 3day ban....

  13. #38
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    Jan 2007
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    Great to see this enacted. Looks like a move in the right direction.

    I've not been actively pvping the last few months, so this doesn't currently affect me, but I envision a new form of trolling:
    Creeps get fustrated over a (perceived) imbalance. The creep raid logs out and switches to new ftp accounts, and each get a freep to level 10 w/in an hour. They make their freevers and raid up. They roll out and stand before the fraid who, upon seeing their first group of opponents in the last hour, summarily wipe them out. The creeps report the freeps for rank farming. Action is taken upon the freeps' accounts and the creeps' new ftp accounts, about which the creeps do not care. Creeps switch back to their main account.

    I hope live observation will take place by a GM before actions are taken, else errors can easily be made.
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  14. #39
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    Thank you.
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  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhoris_they_spider View Post
    So if creeps are having a bad night of it and I decide to run in to their raid with no-chance of survival to 'raise morale' then I'm a rank farmer?
    My understanding is that if you are running in and standing there, letting them beat you to death over and over, you are. If you are going in and TRYING to put up a fight, you are not. My son is a perfect example. He just started in the moors, as a R1 (finally) he has no clue at the moment how most of his skills work, he just knows he's there to fight. He tends to find the biggest guy in the yard and try to knock him down. But he's honestly fighting. Neither he nor the freep he goes after is a farmer. He dies more often than not, but he's still having fun with it and trying. That is kind of the point.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    ...and this is exactly why we chose not to make it retroactive.
    If people who've done it before (today) haven't broken any rule, why/what about the hot air you've given us with the ''false positive'' and ''MISUSE of multi-boxing''?
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by UwS-Harledir View Post
    anybody who gets more than 30k infamy/renown per day is rank farming
    This isn't true. I personally have never come close to these numbers, but I know a few players who have and who are certainly not farmers. Add the keep buffs, delving buffs, store buff, and a solid day of action, and one can easily break 30k.
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  18. #43
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    Clarification, if you could...

    If someone is multiboxing, say, Reavers and killing said Reavers on their Free People character (Freep), and seeing multi-boxing is not considered a violation of the AUP, TOS, etc., would said action still be considered Rank Farming by the definition in this thread?

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    366
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitholean View Post
    Fair comment.

    Sapience how will reports be managed? Will screenshots be accepted? Will you check combat logs? Etc etc.

    I doubt screenshots will work since it's a photo not a video so they can't actualy see truth behind the photo.
    Combat log and user chat and his IP will give them more detailed info on what was going on.

    Im glad this is happening so all people who are doing this will be punished.


    Lucky those who have done it in past, if they got rank15, they have no need to do it again, and nobody can punish them. But overall it is nice new rule, ill be first to report new clubbers when i notice some. Cheers!

  20. #45
    This is easily the best announcement Turbine has made in 18+ months, thank you.

    A few concerns:

    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    “Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy; resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank. Rank Farming is specific to Ettenmoors PvMP (Freep vs. Monster Player). The enemy can be controlled by any player - either the same player controlling the surrendering character, or someone else.
    This doesn't strike me as an air-tight definition. A very common saying is "Don't go AFK in the Moors". If we go AFK and are killed as a result, and this happens several times over the course of a play session, are we (and the persons killing us while we are afk, too) at risk of being reported for rank farming?

    Participation in Rank Farming is an abuse of our game mechanics, and against our rules. Customer Service can identify this behavior and will take the appropriate action on both accounts involved, based on our findings. This activity can also be reported to the in-game staff for review.
    Could you go over the process someone should follow if they intend to report someone for rank farming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delmore View Post
    the easy way would be to look at the actual fight...were both toon actually using legitimate attempts to kill the other and not die? Or was one toon hitting low based skills every couple of seconds and not showing legitimate effort
    I've had some nail-biting fights with freavers that involved me only using auto-attack, and I've not won them all. Does this change mean a fight I'm trying to win with only auto-attack can be reported as the freaver rank farming me?
    Last edited by spelunker; Aug 28 2013 at 12:28 PM.
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  21. #46
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    Apr 2011
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    Better late then never. +1 for the integrity of the PvP product, good for you turbine.

  22. #47
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    Jun 2011
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    This is good. Unfortunate that it's not retroactive though, many people who have clubbed to r12+ will get away with it completely.
    Eraelin | Redemnus

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    “Rank Farming” is officially defined as the intentional surrender of your character to an enemy; resulting in a purposeful defeat and a gain of Infamy or Glory to increase rank. Rank Farming is specific to Ettenmoors PvMP (Freep vs. Monster Player). The enemy can be controlled by any player - either the same player controlling the surrendering character, or someone else.
    Since this is an official definition, it seems like it would be important to get the terminology correct.

    "Glory" is a stance skill available to characters of the champion class. "Renown" is the lifetime statistic that increases when one of the free peoples defeats a monster player.

    Given the amount of time that went into crafting this definition, I'm surprised to see this mistake. I wouldn't want anyone who violates this policy to get off on a technicality if they appeal.

  24. #49
    If anyone ever needed an explanation of the phrase 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted', look no further.

  25. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CSM_River View Post
    Customer Service can identify this behavior and will take the appropriate action on both accounts involved, based on our findings.
    Can you elaborate on the "appropriate action" that Turbine will take?

    Publishing the consequences with the policy would probably serve as a more effective deterrent. (As precedent, things like the Community Guidelines mention specific punishments for infractions.)

 

 
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