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  1. #326
    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    multi boxing it's self is not a violation it's self. but it purely depends on how you do it. you can report users who multi-box using bots and such, if there found to not contact the GM's when they ask or look like there cheating without being player controlled, they can get punished.

    I think sapience should add a thread on this... it always comes up and is quickly explained. it's another area like fight clubbing that has gray area's that vastly hard to define. but multi-boxing does have large positive benefits to players and if used correctly does no harm to other players.
    Not sure what you're trying to say. It doesn't matter how you do it. You can do it however you like and Turbine won't do squat. Whether you are just logging in another account to facilitate a trade or having them tag along for quest turnins (which I think is fine) or having 20 reavers moving as one giant, many-armed, monstrosity that can one-shot most anyone and take a keep by itself (which shouldn't really be okay in a competitive, PVP environment). You're right, there are some gray areas and some vastly different uses of multi-boxing. But you're wrong to say it matters how you do it. BOTs are a different issue entirely. The issue has been brought up and Sapience closes the threads now because apparently they're not concerned with competitive balance or they are but don't want to lose money by addressing this and so want to sweep it under the rug. Either way... it's a black eye they've chosen to cover up with a $-covered bandaid. Specific issues have been brought up. People have posted they openly do it and how and with programs. People were reported. Nothing was done and no statement was made anywhere that anything will be done except that multi-boxing is within the CoC.
    Leafblade, Captain
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  2. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcC View Post
    You realize how bad lotro pvp must have been for people to prefer rank farming to playing when in the moors? Secondly, you realize how frigging stupid it is to require YEARS of constant play to achieve high ranks to begin with?
    Do you realize how many players in other games also take shortcuts to try to build up their ranks/levels for whatever reason? It's not just an issue with Turbine's game play, although I agree with you that the pvp system needs some work. The real issue is that so many humans are just flat-out lazy.

    Consider this: they're already confirmed couch potatoes, sitting around video gaming in a virtual world. But even then, it's what, too hard to compete with other players for the ranks, whether it takes hours, days, weeks, months, or years? They find ways to work around the system, doing what it was obviously not meant for, and in some cases performing activities that violate service agreements, codes of conduct, and other guidelines. Why? They want to be at the top of the heap for bragging rights, with as little effort as possible.

    The ranks are there to identify you as a top pvp'er in the community, not as someone that found a way to climb the ladder faster.

    "I'm rank 15!!!"
    "How many opponents did you have to beat to get there?"
    "One. Lots of times."

  3. #328
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    5
    actually it's more like people on freep side are feeding their ranks then taking 6 man groups and zerging anyone they can spy on with multiboxing to locate your toon... some even spy on raids to try and cheat them, same drama and not enough security to prevent it from happening

  4. #329
    That happens on both sides, not just freepside, depending on the server.

  5. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by wireloose View Post
    Do you realize how many players in other games also take shortcuts to try to build up their ranks/levels for whatever reason? It's not just an issue with Turbine's game play, although I agree with you that the pvp system needs some work. The real issue is that so many humans are just flat-out lazy.

    Consider this: they're already confirmed couch potatoes, sitting around video gaming in a virtual world. But even then, it's what, too hard to compete with other players for the ranks, whether it takes hours, days, weeks, months, or years? They find ways to work around the system, doing what it was obviously not meant for, and in some cases performing activities that violate service agreements, codes of conduct, and other guidelines. Why? They want to be at the top of the heap for bragging rights, with as little effort as possible.

    The ranks are there to identify you as a top pvp'er in the community, not as someone that found a way to climb the ladder faster.

    "I'm rank 15!!!"
    "How many opponents did you have to beat to get there?"
    "One. Lots of times."

    I could not disagree more about one thing, that ranks are there to identify the top pvpers, you realize you didn't even have to be within 500m to get credit for kills, nor does it require any skill to stand there and tag every creep so that when they die you get credit....

    Lotro pvp is zerg v zerg and ver often requires no more skill than tabbing. That isn't to say that I haven't seen some really great players, but lets not go crazy about skill in lotro pvp.... too often its just numbers and the only thing rank is a sign of is amount of time put in.
    Connomir: Warden of Firefoots Best, Resurrection.
    95s on Farmfoot: Ramapo - Vendortrash
    Farmpaws and Thorvion forever 15, thank turbine.
    A Proud Member of the Forgotten 10%

  6. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcC View Post
    Maybe at 95 we can all group up to run school and library again for the 5th level cap... yeah lotro is epic LOL, or we could run sambrog again... or maybe they will just scale Barad Gularen to 95 and call it new pve content...

    I have never seen a group of developers abuse a scaling system as bad as turbine to avoid making new content.
    wait, swtor doesn't do that? ...

    "abuse" scaling is barely possible. the alternative is to leave them unscaled and have costs of making new content (which is one of the hardest things mmo's do). was RoI having just dracoch + foundry + 3-3mans + ToO better? I think anyone who sufferd the long drawn out process of SoM before OD knows how painful those grinds were.

    you also forget that we did also get a new cluster too... maybe not the best but it was still a cluster.

    it's not the content is the issue, it's the balancing/difficulty and reward system. scaling instances is a great long term investment and many other mmo's are doing it now, like SWTOR.

    hasn't SWTOR only just had an expansion? 3 years after it's release?

    sure, if you love the PvE experiance SWTOR gives, good for you, stay there and have a nice day. but comparing games is like comparing fruit, there differant, no one is better than the other. there really arn't that many stupidly bad mmo flops out there because it costs so much to make them. well, other than matrix online and maybe family guy mmo... those make me suicidal
    [CENTER][URL=http://s739.photobucket.com/user/bubushum/media/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png.html][IMG]http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/bubushum/signiturepre1_zps427684ba.png[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]

  7. #332

    Ranking Reset

    Does this mean there is a discussion to reset all ranking from the date of the rule as well? This will prevent any previous farmers from continuing to compete at their high rank and continuing to discourage the average player from pursuing ranks.

  8. #333
    Pinch me...ouch - ok ok this is a real thread...pleasantly surprised!

    Thanks for two things River - paying attention to PvP feedback and communicating with us.

    Good Hunting,

    Ell


    ps - now about those auto flips.............
    Ellouhollia - R13 - Hunter (BW) | Ellou - R10 - Guardian (BW) | Slye - R10 - Burglar (CH) | Borialys - R8 - Minstrel (BW)
    Freepstalker - R8 - Stalker (CH) | Freepstalker - R7 - Stalker (BW) | Allwrong - R7 - Warleader (BW)

  9. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by Mitholean View Post
    This is a huge issue. On Snowbourn, I have so many videos and screenshots of people who have farmed ranks. We have a rank 15, a rank 14, numerous rank 13/12/11s and lower ranks that if the GMs accepted I could show you. So the guy who clubbed 1m in a week for R15 is allowed to get away with it? The r11 who uses bots to club (next level clubbing) and I have a 4 minute video to prove can get away with it?

    Please rethink the "not retroactive" part.


    I think when the farmers are on a more level field, the quality will begin to show better, again.
    Rank is nice. Expert playing is better.
    On a good day, I'll go toe-to-toe Freep against any equivalent level Creep out there and stand a good chance of winning, whatever their rank. I have a few higher-ranks under my belt. But...
    There are a few very good players who could, in that situation, spank me every time.
    It does make a difference, when you earn your stripes, rather than get them spoon-fed. And the entire game goes up in quality.


    "Fear is the brain's resistance against success."

  10. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by KevMcC View Post
    I have watched 2 of my buddies farm to r15 on creep and freep respectively, and they are LOL like crazy at these new rules. What I find funny is that all you supposed rank purists see this as a victory, but in reality it is the ultimate defeat. It now confirmed that rank farming was never against the rules, it was confirmed by Sap in this thread.
    That is why I always prefer to speak about these things in terms of "Working as Intended". Same for multi-boxing, pillar-sniping, phase-dooring. It is one thing to break the rules, inasmuch as one can find all the rules and the rules are clear. It is another thing for Turbine to enforce the rules and make rulings, and it is another thing for Turbine to simply issue statements like:

    "x" is not working as intended, however policing and penalties for "x" are not enforceable at the moment

    but of course we are not mind readers; we do not know the devs' intent unless they state it, nor do we know if they even agree on all issues...let alone be able to act on them.

    So I would say that rank farming was not working as intended, and has been addressed.

    Of course we cannot even enforce pre-existing laws in RL...politically it is very embarrassing to admit. And the Supreme Court is always talking about "the intent of the law".

  11. #336
    Great move, Devs! Our kin, Shadow and Flame, is in the process of making rules for our kin that participate in this stuff.

    I read another post about earning your stripes versus getting it spoon fed to you. Touche! Getting rank and knowing how to play are two completely different things! EARN your rank!!

  12. #337
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    70
    been playing for almost 4years now, and have been waiting for this ty ^.^

  13. #338
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    L.A.
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    rank farming? easy solution!

    guys you want a better quality of PvP?
    just remove ranking
    then remove PvE quests from the moors

    what you have now?
    a handfull of people that actually want to PvP and only PvP

    that means you are loosing clients ooopssss thats lame???
    what you have to do?
    you do nothing n i really dont believe that you gonna stop the rank farming coz this will make you loose money

    kisses to all

  14. #339
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    1
    Multi-boxing for the express purpose of advancing one character by exploiting the inaction of the other is recognized as an exploit by the Gaming Community at large. This is not a new trick that someone came up with last week, so to say that you can't act retroact on a rule that you just made is irrelevant.

  15. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zalexia View Post
    When you know there is no action prime time and just 1vs1 circles or small skirmishes around , you see a person with 10k renown/infamy gain in 1 day you know something's up.
    Lawl. I'd be more suspicious of 20k in those circumstances, but hell, even that is more than doable. Simply depends how much time they've been out for.


    Anyway, can't wait to start banning craids and fraids of people alike when they are out rank farming me while I'm solo.
    You have a glorious definition of rank farming Turbine.

    I'd be really REALLY keen to know how you actually go about investigating people who are reported for rank farming. Can't just be daily gains, and it can't just be combat event logs either.
    I made over 8k from killing a group of greenies (not ones I controlled) at old lugz rez in one sitting last year. Would I have gotten banned for that?
    Not to mention, it's going to be hilarious when GM's start banning people at 1v1 circles.

    This simply seems like a typical crowd pleaser, I was honestly expecting something more sincere and worthwhile in terms of the actual policy, not something which seems so innately subjective.
    Last edited by Untg99; Sep 03 2013 at 12:07 AM.

  16. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    Lawl. I'd be more suspicious of 20k in those circumstances, but hell, even that is more than doable. Simply depends how much time they've been out for.


    Anyway, can't wait to start banning craids and fraids of people alike when they are out rank farming me while I'm solo.
    You have a glorious definition of rank farming Turbine.

    I'd be really REALLY keen to know how you actually go about investigating people who are reported for rank farming. Can't just be daily gains, and it can't just be combat event logs either.
    I made over 8k from killing a group of greenies (not ones I controlled) at old lugz rez in one sitting last year. Would I have gotten banned for that?

    This simply seems like a typical crowd pleaser, I was honestly expecting something more sincere and worthwhile in terms of the actual policy, not something which seems so innately subjective.
    Indeed. Its going to be interesting to see how/if they can actually enforce their new rule or whether its simply an attempt to quell the anger about it on the forums.
    [IMG]http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/supermaco/2800703.png[/IMG]

  17. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by staveisle View Post
    ... they're not concerned with competitive balance ...
    Lotro's Ettenmoors has never been, nor will it ever be a competitive PvP environment. If that is what you want, you need to look at other games: or look up the definition of competitive PvP. Ever since the Ettenmoors was released, players have been haranguing the devs for not providing a PvP game that they never promised to offer in the first place.

  18. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by EU_Orc_Bane View Post
    Lotro's Ettenmoors has never been, nor will it ever be a competitive PvP environment. If that is what you want, you need to look at other games: or look up the definition of competitive PvP. Ever since the Ettenmoors was released, players have been haranguing the devs for not providing a PvP game that they never promised to offer in the first place.
    Usually the word 'Versus' implies a function of a competitive nature.

  19. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaMac View Post
    Indeed. Its going to be interesting to see how/if they can actually enforce their new rule or whether its simply an attempt to quell the anger about it on the forums.
    The people who rank farm have for the most part already done so and tarnished the PvP. Its likely you wont see a lot of enforcement because people are now aware of a policy. The anger is ridiculous as well, people have been asking for this issue to be addressed for a long time. If you are still angry about rank farming well, don't know what to say other than you probably should have looked for another pvp game a long time ago. The damage is done on this issue, again, Turbine was way behind the curve on it.

  20. #345
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    If PvP gear and barter weapons would have a "only usable in ettenmoors" tag then this rank farming would be a side issue ...

  21. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombielord View Post
    If PvP gear and barter weapons would have a "only usable in ettenmoors" tag then this rank farming would be a side issue ...

    yes this is a nice suggestion!
    but
    as i said above all this is loosing clients for turbine
    so ....... do you really wait to see anyone getting banned?

  22. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valakircka View Post

    as i said above all this is loosing clients for turbine
    so ....... do you really wait to see anyone getting banned?

    /facepalm


    ........
    Ridduk R14 WL
    Brandywine

  23. #348
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    So according to this definition, if I multiboxed accounts against myself, and it just so happens that one of my characters is more powerful than all the others combined that he wins everytime, I cannot be banned. As because they are actively attacking each other, it is not farming because I have not 'surrendered' any of my characters.
    Last edited by Untg99; Sep 03 2013 at 05:51 AM.

  24. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    So according to this definition, if I multiboxed accounts against myself, and it just so happens that one of my characters is more powerful than all the others combined that he wins everytime, I cannot be banned. As because they are actively attacking each other, it is not farming because I have not 'surrendered' any of my characters.
    fwiw: I wouldn't suggest you try it... but you already know that I think.
    Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.

    The Oath: A Novel by Elie Wiesel

  25. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    So according to this definition, if I multiboxed accounts against myself, and it just so happens that one of my characters is more powerful than all the others combined that he wins everytime, I cannot be banned. As because they are actively attacking each other, it is not farming because I have not 'surrendered' any of my characters.
    You've read the policy though, they now have techniques to determine if your farming or not. So no matter how much E lawyering you do (even if its accurate) they now have the tools. Rest easy, there is no doubt that turbine will now correct this long standing issue in an efficient, well thought out and determined manner. Sarcasm aside, the bottom line is what its always been. Turbine will determine on a case by case basis regardless of what their policies actually say. Remember the old TOS about intended game play?

 

 
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