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  1. #1

    3 Ideas to lessen the grind for maxing out Virtues.

    With virtues currently at 16, virtues have become a tiresome grind for those who like to have alts. This grind could possibly be extended to 18 with Helms Deep (90 deeds in all). Yes, you can buy the virtues on the LOTRO store but this isn't a viable option for many because you can easily pump a $100 in virtues alone. Depending on your sub. that's many months of game play time. I also recognize that you easily earn deeds while leveling but many times these deeds are not what a certain class needs to optimize their toon. With all this said, here are some ideas to lessen the grind for virtues.
    1. Have "Virtue Tomes", just like the tomes you have now that you get from end game runs such as "Vitality, Will, Agility, Might etc." but these tome would be "Tome of Zeal, Tome of Patience, Tome of Tolerance etc."
    2. Still have deeds but DON'T have a certain virtue attached to that deed. Instead, when your toon finishes a deed, have them gain a "Deed Point" instead of earning a certain type of virtue. When your toon collects "Deed Points" you can trade those points towards any virtue you want. This way, you can pick the virtues you want instead of gaining virtues you don't want and/or therefore probably never use. Furthermore, you can have Tier 1,2 and 3 type deeds.
    T1 - This means 1 Deed Point can be earned by completing regular deeds by killing monsters or discovering locations.
    T2 - This means 2 Deed Points can be earned by completing certain deeds in 3-6 instances and/or skirms.
    T3 - This means 3 Deed Points can be earned by completing deeds in 12-24 raids.
    And to really push the idea even further, have the deed points be account wide. Or refund virtues you've earned/bought on other toons and apply them to another toon that you will actually use.
    3. Have "Virtue Scrolls" be crafted by a certain certain class. The mats would be hard to obtain to maintain balance.

    I'm not saying have ALL these in the game but out of all of them, having Deed Points to where you can choose your own virtue to advance is my favorite option.

    EDIT: With #2 this will make it easier to get people up to do kill deeds and such. Now the issue is when people are trying to get a group for a deed it's hard because either someone doesn't need that deed or already has done it. This way all that is no longer an issue.
    Last edited by JohnAPrescott; Aug 26 2013 at 09:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    This is probably premature, given the rather massive character changes that are coming this Fall.

  3. #3
    It might be, so hopefully the grind will be reduced.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    I like the idea of points so I can just focus on the few virtues I want. I'm not so sure what's so virtues about slaughtering a few hundred ice worms in Forochel. They're just animals for crying out loud, not evil in any way. I don't see my elf hunter really being that into wormicide.
    [URL="http://www.osf.guildlaunch.com"]The Order of The Silver Flame[/URL] - A fun, mature, helpful and friendly kin. Come join us on Silverlode!

  5. #5
    Yes... lets make the game easier than it already is. Every MMO has grind. Grind=time... the actual currency of MMO's. This game is been dumbed down so much already. Everything is spoon fed to us. What's the point is they take away all the challenge?

    Seriously if people take their time in each zone and explore a little and do the quests.. 80% of the deeds will actually be completed.. 90% in some zones. I say leave the grind for virtues in the game. It doesn't hurt anyone. It only helps the community. Keeps people in a zone just a little while longer. Encourages grouping. Makes it so the earlier zones aren't so under populated. People rush too much and miss out on a lot of stuff... just to get to the current "end-game"... it's kinda ########.

  6. #6
    Leave the grind for virtues in the game. Virtues are an fine tunning of your alt. You are elitist? Than you can affort killing some mobs for one rank. Most of them can be done solo at high end cap so is better to let this way, instead making virtues in raids or skirms. I have 5 toons, all virtues maxed and some others as reserve, and is not so hard.
    Andracy - Mns; Andrady - RK; Andrac - Hnt; Andracya - Brg; Gabytza - LM; Anduta - Warden
    Officer of Rangers of Eriador / Snowbourne

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Right now is a pretty good time to work on your virtues. Go kill a few hundred <insert mob here> and try to collect some tokens... 2 birds, 1 stone.

  8. #8
    The idea behind this was to make getting virtues at least somewhat fun. I've never heard anyone say "Yay! Deed grind!" It's just no fun, period. Encourages grouping? I've called out in OOC and such for groups for deeds and no one pipes up. How would getting Deed Points make the game easy? It's just going to make it less of a headache and not such a burden on the player that wants better their character.

  9. #9
    I like this idea. While I work hard during levelling to make sure I get explorer and quest deeds done, slayers are a pain in the proverbial. Deed points mean you can isolate the work.

    On a separate note, it's evident that some virtues are much much bigger than others. When did you last see a toon with 16 Mercy?

    Finally, virtues have been confirmed by a developer as staying pretty much as they are; it's only TRAITS that are changing.
    105s: Aedfrith (HN), Aldnoth (CP), Brai (RK), Hrolfdan (MN), Aeldfryd (WD), Morriarty (CH), Aednoth (LM), Mishhar (BR), Hraldan (GR), Rummbold (BG). Tinies - Rumbelina (MN), Aenghus (CP)
    Rangers of Eriador (officer), ex-Snowbourn now Laurelin - A Noob for All Seasons

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Middle Earth, Arda

    Thumbs up

    Im looking at my Tier 20+ virtues. Im waiting to get a virtues cap increase since day 1 of RoR because i capped to T16 the same day & with bonus on virtues for next cap. That was a epic grind! Thought they are suppose to be a hardly earned reward, i wish the grind was a bit smaller.
    Is this Alternate Playable Character Disorder? :

    Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth

  11. #11
    I have no problem with the grind for virtues. In fact, I'm doing it right now with my main. I've never fully explored the Shire and now having fun strolling around the countryside and finding things I never saw before. I say leave it as is.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Middle Earth, Arda
    Quote Originally Posted by Brom_Ironfist View Post
    ...I've never fully explored the Shire and now having fun strolling around the countryside and finding things I never saw before. I say leave it as is.
    Yah, the exploration deeds are 1 of the best part of the game. All those hidden nuggets: quotes from the lore & epic places is what makes this game the 1 of the kind.
    Is the kill 360 <monsters> to have certain deed what i wish will be reduced a bit somehow.
    Is this Alternate Playable Character Disorder? :

    Check my Kinship at Gladden server: The Fate of Middle Earth

  13. #13
    The exploration deeds will still be there just like they are now. So you can explore just the same, it's just when you get one completed instead of getting an actual virtue you get the Deed Point to go to whatever virtue you want. This is not stopping people from deeding at all but stopping people from getting loads of virtues they don't need. Right now on my lvl 52 champ I have my virtues equipped that I want and they are still at rank 1. I have been questing the hell out all the areas ive been in and I am just getting deed completed for virtues I don't need. This somehow happens everytime I role an alt.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    First off I KNOW you probably herd this about a billion times BUT....with the 2013 fall stuff of Helms Deep they`re revamping Virtues and character skills...for more info on that stuff see the Helps Deep forums and all that jazz...but anycase having them account wide I think would NOT be a smart choice because those people who start a character max out his deeds DELETE him...then start a new one...max out the deeds...delete HIM and so on...by doing THAT they`d just max out on deed points with there REAL characters...and also I think getting all the virtues SHOULD be really hard...but just my opinion...and my opinion dosn`t rule the world! xD

  15. #15
    There is another issue here as well. The starter areas of Bree, Ered Luin and the shire have quick and easy deeds. North Downs and Lonelands as well. I could do those, get x points, and slam all those points into Zeal straight away and max out to 16 with extra points for some other deed. Why bother killing those hard mobs in higher areas for the special virtues?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    I do think that virtues inhibit alting. I have all but Mercy at 16 or greater on my main, but don't generally want to grind so hard for alts. Looking forward to the virtue cap increase that is no doubt coming, I'm actually currently finishing the (easier) remaining ones on my main, soloing Fil Gashan a few times was kind of fun (I like the cook dialog, hadn't been in FG in a few years)

    My view of virtues is that if you do all the quests in a region and explore the whole region thoroughly, you should mostly be there for the regions virtues. I think having another 300+ dourhands to kill in Forochel after doing all the quests is, well, a bit much. But all IMH, and you can go back to the region at a higher level and grind slayer deeds pretty quickly, particularly if you bring a group of friends...

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    I say absolutely not. It's up to each gamer if they want to blow through the levels and skip 90% of the game on alts or on their mains.

    If you want your virtues free of work, buy them in store. They're there.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Macroscian View Post
    I say absolutely not. It's up to each gamer if they want to blow through the levels and skip 90% of the game on alts or on their mains.

    If you want your virtues free of work, buy them in store. They're there.
    What do you mean free of work? You are still doing the deeds. As for buying them, I'm glad you have extra income to blow on these types of things. As for the low level areas, yes, I know that is an issue that can be fixed somehow. And the issue with account wide was just a thought, nothing really saying I want to see that in particular should be brought in. But I do want to see a Deed Point type deal put in place. I love LOTRO but the deed grind is absurd. There is NOTHING hard, challenging or fun about this current setup. I have yet to hear an argument that supports those things. I don't want to be handed something but I also don't want to feel burdened by this grind. Especially being an end game raider, virtues are constantly looked at and if I want to bring up an alt to help with raiding these virtues are a daunting task that discourages many people who I talk to from really getting into making alts. If you encourage making alts people will log on more and dedicate more time to playing. But this only happens when things are fun and not a headache to achieve and right now leveling virtues are an absolute headache.
    Last edited by JohnAPrescott; Aug 28 2013 at 03:34 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnAPrescott View Post
    What do you mean free of work? You are still doing the deeds. As for buying them, I'm glad you have extra income to blow on these types of things.
    Did you quote the wrong post? I didn't talk about free of work, or about buying?!?

  20. #20
    Yes, sorry. =/ I fixed it.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2012
    I like the second idea. They could make something like a 'Virtue Tree' where you can spend the deed points. Just like with Warsteed traits.
    Pyrrhic | Paragon
    Ishlan R12 WL
    Nalshi R11 Rvr, Ishnal R9 Spider, Shilan R9 Defiler
    Blato (Mini), Ishlun (Capt), Shilan (Ward), (+4)

  22. #22
    Here's a crazy idea: have an instance for each region where you can set the mob type for the deed you need. All mobs will count towards the deed, but will be max level for the zone, and have a full spectrum of difficulty for each group size (green/regular/signature/elite/elite master/nemesis/and something I am forgetting). Some deeds (grims in forochel) are just rediculous due to lack of mob density and/or respawn rates. (btw, if you need grims in forochel...there is a way to force certain ones to respawn ~30s faster than the typical 2min. Probably works for all mob types.)

  23. #23
    Let's make them scaling instances, Tulcavaryar. That way the grind is more challenging (and thus more interesting) and we will have a wider variety of stuff to run. Maybe also it should not be choosing a specific mob type, but a group of types, so primarily animals/beasts/Creatures of Nature for one run, or mainly humanoids (dwarves/orcs/goblins etc) for another. Otherwise it gets boring fast. >.< Oh, and set it up as a survival run, maybe even with solo option so it is actually run, unlike Barrow Downs Survival which requires 3 characters in most combinations (except, perhaps, for Shield Warden...)

    P.S. Oh, and let's add a ridiculous challenge while we're at it... Survive for 30 minutes against continuously strengthening waves to get 4 seals and a chance at useful equipment. xD Don't we all love that?
    Gimli's First Law of "Let's go!"

    "Certainty of death? Small chance of success? What are we waiting for?"

  24. #24
    I like your thinking. maybe have the mobs be determined by the deeds in the leader's quest tracker that are relevant for that region? mix and match up to 5 enemy types all corresponding to active deeds?

  25. #25
    Virtues need to be revamped. I hate the grind, and without it, my toon "sucks".


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