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Thread: Iron Garrison

  1. #1

    Iron Garrison

    Do you know how iron garrison dies while trying to reclaim moria??

  2. #2
    Who told you they all die?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    Who told you they all die?
    Turbine messed up the continuity by having them there at all so they all have to die some time before the war's over

  4. #4
    Don't see any contradictions.
    Fellowship exited Moria on January 15, Iron Garrison entered it some time after, most likely several weeks. They had to hold for less than 2 months till the end of the war. Perfectly plausible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    Don't see any contradictions.
    Fellowship exited Moria on January 15, Iron Garrison entered it some time after, most likely several weeks. They had to hold for less than 2 months till the end of the war. Perfectly plausible.
    Moria isn't reclaimed until the Erebor Dwarves go back a few centuries *after* WOTR.
    This is why developers have already confirmed the Iron Garrison is doomed to fail (and will likely die horribly).

    (edit: but not announced until after Mirkwood, they apparently "forgot" about the whole Moria reclaim, as they forget nearly every other lore aspect of ME history)
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  6. #6
    True, though they don't necessarily need to die horribly.
    They could've just left quietly realizing they were far too few in number to begin any reasonable reconstruction effort.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Turbine messed up the continuity by having them there at all so they all have to die some time before the war's over
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Moria isn't reclaimed until the Erebor Dwarves go back a few centuries *after* WOTR.
    This is why developers have already confirmed the Iron Garrison is doomed to fail (and will likely die horribly).

    (edit: but not announced until after Mirkwood, they apparently "forgot" about the whole Moria reclaim, as they forget nearly every other lore aspect of ME history)
    Wait are y'a'll sayin Turbine messes up with lore stuff? Say it ain't so!

    Shame about the Garrison boys. I'm gonna miss 'em.
    Last edited by bambubambubambu; Jun 23 2013 at 12:46 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    True, though they don't necessarily need to die horribly.
    True.

    But one can dream.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

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    It would seem more likely that they left and went back to the Lonely Mountain to defend King Dain or something like that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    It would seem more likely that they left and went back to the Lonely Mountain to defend King Dain or something like that.
    Why?
    They left when they knew Erebor was about to be attacked by Sauron, this decision would suggest they left to flee the war (I know Turbine's lazy explanation is that they wanted to reclaim Moria, but that's just dumb writing -- you don't take hundreds of Dwarves away on a wild goose chase that your King forbid* by the way when you know your homeland has just been dragged into a war).

    So why would they go back 2 months after they had arrived in Moria?


    *Or rather, in the books he is simply against it and his dwarves obey him. Eventually Balin goes without his king's approval and Dain gets angry. After a few years they lose contact with Balin.
    In Turbine's version, when the war broke out and suddenly some random idiot dwarf asks for a few hundred dwarves to go to Moria as well....well, I imagine Dain would simply forbid them to go. But this is speculation based on Dain not being a complete moron.
    Last edited by BirdofHermes; Jun 23 2013 at 08:59 PM.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  11. #11
    One second, the Iron Garrison guys can't be from Erebor. They entered from the west (along with loads and loads of supplies). That means they could only be Ered Luin dwarves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    One second, the Iron Garrison guys can't be from Erebor. They entered from the west (along with loads and loads of supplies). That means they could only be Ered Luin dwarves.
    Actually, they are from neither. They come from the Iron Hills(*), which is ruled over by Erebor. Why they went in from the west side? Well they couldn't enter from the east side because of those haunted woods where the elf-witch lives.



    (*) "What is the Garrison? Why it is we Longbeards who have come from the Iron Hills to reclaim Khazad-dum!"
    - Bennt Sharp-eye
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  13. #13
    Lorien did not block Nanduhirion approach in the slightest (in Lotro it kinda does of course, but that's not the point ). Lorien stopped at the line of Nimrodel, and Dwarves never had to come close. The whole army of Dwarves came that way to the Battle of Nanduhirion after all in Thorin's lifetime.
    I can't imagine any possible reason for a small host with a whole supply train to cross the orc-infested ever more perilous mountain passes and then track through innumerable leagues of dangerous wilderness to Hollin Gate instead of passing down Anduin vale inhabited by friendly Beornings to Nanduhirion.

    So the devs logic escapes me completely...
    Last edited by Egorvlad; Jun 24 2013 at 10:32 AM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    So the devs logic escapes me completely...
    Who said the devs were logical?
    Today is a good day for Pie.

    Do not meddle in the affairs of Burglars, for they are subtle and quick to shank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egorvlad View Post
    Lorien did not block Nanduhirion approach in the slightest (in Lotro it kinda does of course, but that's not the point ). Lorien stopped at the line of Nimrodel, and Dwarves never had to come close. The whole army of Dwarves came that way to the Battle of Nanduhirion after all in Thorin's lifetime.
    I can't imagine any possible reason for a small host with a whole supply train to cross the orc-infested ever more perilous mountain passes and then track through innumerable leagues of dangerous wilderness to Hollin Gate instead of passing down Anduin vale inhabited by friendly Beornings to Nanduhirion.

    So the devs logic escapes me completely...
    I agree, but the Iron Garrison only exists in the game, so I assume the devs used the game landscape, not Tolkien's landscape.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Why?
    They left when they knew Erebor was about to be attacked by Sauron, this decision would suggest they left to flee the war (I know Turbine's lazy explanation is that they wanted to reclaim Moria, but that's just dumb writing -- you don't take hundreds of Dwarves away on a wild goose chase that your King forbid* by the way when you know your homeland has just been dragged into a war).

    So why would they go back 2 months after they had arrived in Moria?


    *Or rather, in the books he is simply against it and his dwarves obey him. Eventually Balin goes without his king's approval and Dain gets angry. After a few years they lose contact with Balin.
    In Turbine's version, when the war broke out and suddenly some random idiot dwarf asks for a few hundred dwarves to go to Moria as well....well, I imagine Dain would simply forbid them to go. But this is speculation based on Dain not being a complete moron.
    They don't have to go through Lorien to get to the Lonely Mountain, they could have taken the main road through Mirkwood and gone the Hobbit way. I am not totally sure where they would do that because the eagles mess up with my roadmap, but I believe they can go north of Lorien through Mirkwood. I doubt any dwarf would flee from a battle.
    I don't know when the war started for the dwarves because all they had heard was threats until the battle of Erebor which isn't before the battle of Minas Tirith.
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  17. #17
    On the subject of the Iron Garrison, how large would you say the garrison actually is? From my understanding it is only perhaps 100-150 strong, what with the named NPCs and then the other dwarves you see round the place etc. etc. Now, I don't know how large Balin's colony was but it seemed to me that he took only a handful, especially as it was against the advice of King Dain; most would probably have decided not to go when Dain told them not to. So I think the Iron Garrison would hold out longer than Balin's small force, and perhaps they don't all get killed: it may be a few centuries until Moria is reclaimed totally, but who is to say that a small colony of Dwarves are not living there in conflict with the Orcs? Remains a possibility
    (Of course, its a bit of a stretch, but I cant see any other possibility in-game; I highly doubt we will re-visit Moria in the storyline now)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geindir View Post
    So I think the Iron Garrison would hold out longer than Balin's small force, and perhaps they don't all get killed: it may be a few centuries until Moria is reclaimed totally, but who is to say that a small colony of Dwarves are not living there in conflict with the Orcs?
    Not really - how on earth could they survive? If they tried to hold out the same would happen as the last time, they'd get penned up somewhere and the Orcs would pick them off one by one. Moria was a death-trap unless you could secure the whole place, something that'd take thousands of Dwarves.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    Why they went in from the west side?
    Because they wanted to make it convinient for the player to help them enter Moria. Wouldn't you attempt a perilious mountain crossing with a few hundred dwarves to make it easier on someone you had never met before?
    "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend," Faramir in TTT by JRRT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    They don't have to go through Lorien to get to the Lonely Mountain, they could have taken the main road through Mirkwood and gone the Hobbit way. I am not totally sure where they would do that because the eagles mess up with my roadmap, but I believe they can go north of Lorien through Mirkwood. I doubt any dwarf would flee from a battle.
    I don't know when the war started for the dwarves because all they had heard was threats until the battle of Erebor which isn't before the battle of Minas Tirith.
    I'm assuming you mean Moria instead of the Lonely Mountain: Yes, the main road through Mirkwood would have been the obvious road, but after that they would still need to get to Moria itself. And in the game's geography that means passing by Lothlorien via the north or south border (in Tolkien's geography it doesn't).
    Their "war" (= first battle) started March 17, two days after Minas Tirith is attacked. But the Dwarves had been receiving threats of war from Mordor since the previous year, it would be silly to think Dain hadn't been making preparations for it.

    Hence I think the Iron Garrison fled from the war, the reclaiming of Khazad-dûm being a very flimsy excuse. They knew the war had already started, so why else leave?
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    I'm assuming you mean Moria instead of the Lonely Mountain: Yes, the main road through Mirkwood would have been the obvious road, but after that they would still need to get to Moria itself. And in the game's geography that means passing by Lothlorien via the north or south border (in Tolkien's geography it doesn't).
    Their "war" (= first battle) started March 17, two days after Minas Tirith is attacked. But the Dwarves had been receiving threats of war from Mordor since the previous year, it would be silly to think Dain hadn't been making preparations for it.

    Hence I think the Iron Garrison fled from the war, the reclaiming of Khazad-dûm being a very flimsy excuse. They knew the war had already started, so why else leave?
    Well I was thinking that if they went from Moria to the Lonely Mountain, but same deal. I know the game geography isn't spot on, but in the map Tolkien made there is enough space to make it between the golden wood and the mountain. Did really Moria only have two gates? that sounds pretty dumb to me. Anyways, I do believe the Iron Garrison, or most of them will leave for the Lonely Mountain to aid in that battle. If they make it past Dol Guldur is another question, but that is what I think. And if they leave anytime soon they should be able to make it.
    If they were as you said running from the war I'd doubt they would do all the stuff they have done in Moria by now. So yeah I'll keep on believing that they left Moria to aid in the battle. I have never seen dwarves flee from a battle in the lore. If you know about some who did it please provide a link so I can read more about it. Because I've been looking for it, but only find dwarves who have allied with the enemy, but none who fled.
    Another question is why haven't Ered-Luin done anything? I don't recall them saving the Shire from Saruman.
    Last edited by Witch0King; Jun 24 2013 at 12:20 PM.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    Well I was thinking that if they went from Moria to the Lonely Mountain, but same deal. I know the game geography isn't spot on, but in the map Tolkien made there is enough space to make it between the golden wood and the mountain. Did really Moria only have two gates? that sounds pretty dumb to me. Anyways, I do believe the Iron Garrison, or most of them will leave for the Lonely Mountain to aid in that battle. If they make it past Dol Guldur is another question, but that is what I think. And if they leave anytime soon they should be able to make it.
    If they were as you said running from the war I'd doubt they would do all the stuff they have done in Moria by now. So yeah I'll keep on believing that they left Moria to aid in the battle. I have never seen dwarves flee from a battle in the lore. If you know about some who did it please provide a link so I can read more about it. Because I've been looking for it, but only find dwarves who have allied with the enemy, but none who fled.
    Another question is why haven't Ered-Luin done anything? I don't recall them saving the Shire from Saruman.
    If I remember correctly, in Tolkein's works the dwarves that pass through the Shire to the Ered Luin are going on mining purposes, and I don't believe there would be many there, most having travelled to Erebor following the events in the Hobbit. And also, if you look at the map in the book, the mountain range of Ered Luin is actually quite a great distance from the Shire, being somewhat to the North and a good deal to the West. I believe Turbine show this in game by using the portal thing between Ered Luin and the Shire, rather than a continuing landscape?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/202240000002126b0/01005/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geindir View Post
    If I remember correctly, in Tolkein's works the dwarves that pass through the Shire to the Ered Luin are going on mining purposes, and I don't believe there would be many there, most having travelled to Erebor following the events in the Hobbit. And also, if you look at the map in the book, the mountain range of Ered Luin is actually quite a great distance from the Shire, being somewhat to the North and a good deal to the West. I believe Turbine show this in game by using the portal thing between Ered Luin and the Shire, rather than a continuing landscape?
    Yet in this game they have made Ered Luin seemingly very important or atleast big, even if they were just miners shouldn't they be doing something to aid their own kin or allies about? I don't believe they would just sit it out. I don't think the distance would be a valid reason to not aid for instance, the Shire. The distance doesn't seem to be that great. On the map Ered Luin appears big and they would need alot of miners to clear that so there's bound to be atleast a few hundred miners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    Well I was thinking that if they went from Moria to the Lonely Mountain, but same deal. I know the game geography isn't spot on, but in the map Tolkien made there is enough space to make it between the golden wood and the mountain. Did really Moria only have two gates? that sounds pretty dumb to me. Anyways, I do believe the Iron Garrison, or most of them will leave for the Lonely Mountain to aid in that battle. If they make it past Dol Guldur is another question, but that is what I think. And if they leave anytime soon they should be able to make it. If they were as you said running from the war I'd doubt they would do all the stuff they have done in Moria by now. So yeah I'll keep on believing that they left Moria to aid in the battle. I have never seen dwarves flee from a battle in the lore. If you know about some who did it please provide a link so I can read more about it. Because I've been looking for it, but only find dwarves who have allied with the enemy, but none who fled. Another question is why haven't Ered-Luin done anything? I don't recall them saving the Shire from Saruman.
    Correct. So whichever way you turn it, it's really terribly storywriting on Turbine's behalf. Either Dain is a complete idiot, or the Iron Garrison Dwarves are cowards.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  25. #25
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    Im on the Idea Iron garrison is an expedition, they didn't reclaim moria until Erebor dwarves cameto help, so basically LOTRO we have an orc infested place but dwarves managed to secure some areas while not entirely, I think its pausible.

    Its a stretch but still could fill a gap of the moria history.

 

 
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