We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    51

    Warden Twitter Question

    Q19: @greendragoon Is there going to be any effort to streamline the Warden's massive (and convoluted) abilitiy list? #LOTRO
    A19: DeviledEgg In short, yes. Some gambits are being trimmed, some are being placed in different specialization.
    A19a: The total number of gambits will be decided by how you choose to specialize.


    -Thoughts? I assume that most of our gambits are being thrown out, at least partly.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrohasra View Post
    Q19: @greendragoon Is there going to be any effort to streamline the Warden's massive (and convoluted) abilitiy list? #LOTRO
    A19: DeviledEgg In short, yes. Some gambits are being trimmed, some are being placed in different specialization.
    A19a: The total number of gambits will be decided by how you choose to specialize.


    -Thoughts? I assume that most of our gambits are being thrown out, at least partly.
    This was the answer I expected to hear, but it was no less disappointing to hear it knowing it was coming.

    What I said in that thread was there were 2 gambits i consider junk at the moment, and every other one sees regular use by me while both dpsing or tanking. I don't see how our functionality (note this is entirely different from how potent we are) can be maintained without consolidating effects from multiple gambits into one, which strikes me as simplifying the class for the sole sake of simplification. There are a handful of gambits at most that I think fall into the convoluted category (i'm looking at you, fist shield gambits in assailment), but the openness of choices and 'challenge' of the gambit system is exactly why I play the class. Losing out on gambit choices and being forced to only use those gambits a Dev belatedly decided were necessary for a given role because someone rolled a class billed as advanced and then balked at the effort it took to learn and master it is going to be a bitter pill for me to swallow.

    Advanced class argument derailment incoming.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    51
    I agree wiht the basis of the idea. I am just concerned that by taking away the build time for some gambits and by letting us use fist-shield gambits in assailment, we will be open to a huge incomming nerf after HD goes live. It most likely won't even pass beta, if there is a PvP test within the first or second weeks.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrohasra View Post
    I agree wiht the basis of the idea. I am just concerned that by taking away the build time for some gambits and by letting us use fist-shield gambits in assailment, we will be open to a huge incomming nerf after HD goes live. It most likely won't even pass beta, if there is a PvP test within the first or second weeks.
    Huh? You quoted someone who suggested the class was convoluted, I was suggesting that the only part of the class I find to be convoluted is the gambits that are melee only gambits in what is otherwise a ranged only stance.

    The points of my post are:
    The class is not convoluted (small examples aside)
    There are almost no useless gambits, cutting us down to around 20 will remove gambits that I use all the time.
    reducing our gambit choices will either reduce the functionality we bring, or require merging the effects of multiple gambits on live now, into single gambits with HD.
    The class is marked as advanced, and even now it its OP glory remains one of the most difficult to play at the highest level, I'm concerned the Devs are intentionally simplifying the class.


    Don't hold your breath for any PvMP testing in Beta.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hamilton, NY
    Posts
    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Don't hold your breath for any PvMP testing in Beta.
    PvMP in beta consists of freeps either steamrolling the creeps at a 10:1 ratio, or freeps getting bored and exploiting themselves into Grams. I think it's a pretty safe bet that you won't get any sort of reliable testing out of it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Huh? You quoted someone who suggested the class was convoluted, I was suggesting that the only part of the class I find to be convoluted is the gambits that are melee only gambits in what is otherwise a ranged only stance.
    I should have clarified, I meant I agreed with the previous post, not the question I quoted. I also agree with your points, I haven't really found anything that is useless. Except for things like fist-shield gambits in assailment, I also found the point of the shield-spear buffs to be a little underwhelming if I am trying to dps a target quickly in PvP.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    England. north-west
    Posts
    2,685
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Losing out on gambit choices and being forced to only use those gambits a Dev belatedly decided were necessary for a given role because someone rolled a class billed as advanced and then balked at the effort it took to learn and master it is going to be a bitter pill for me to swallow.
    there are still some gambits that I would like to be swapped around and many ranged gambits to be updated.

    I just hope aggro isn't so much of a straight line to some, EoB still seems too good imo. moral-taps should be a bit more chunky and hots be less Ez mode. I'm sure they could make quicker to use gambits a little more of a boost too by buffing later gambits (how I see "gambit gating" working). I also would hope that some crazy Ez mode tanking gambits that are used excessively in moors get gated towards certain lines so that there is a bigger differance between blue warden and red warden in moors. when I play red/yellow warden and ONLY moral-tap, I feel quite balanced tbh. some gambits (21212/EoB) seem over kill to me. our survival skills also need a look at. defiant challange is clearly going to be changed. my expectation is into 2 skills, a survival one and a quicker (still long-ish cooldown) forced taunt thats more reliable.

    I'm sure we'll see lodes of potency changes on gambits too. and like I hinted before, I think it'll be the longer gambits that will be gated in some way. if it's there design to move out of hybrid classes into more pure classes, the very hybrid warden might get a wake up call in what pure really means.

  8. #8
    A19a: The total number of gambits will be decided by how you choose to specialize.
    We already had to stance dance to access specific effects on our gambits, so I don't see this as being an improvement but more of a regression from U6.
    When U6 came out, I felt a bit overwhelmed by the number of gambits to memorize, particularly because for an already capped warden I couldn't learn them as I was unlocking them and I had to take the time to learn my class again.
    I am certainly biased, as I don't really want the gameplay of my beloved warden to be impoverished. I like where we are now (in term of gameplay, I'm not starting an effectiveness thread ).

    I just hope that "useful in every situation" skills will be available without having to specialise. I'm looking at you, Reversal.

    Thinking about it, it's probably for the best if they manage to restrict us from being a tank-healer-dps powerhouse. I like to solo stuff, but we are completely broken in that regard at the moment.

    Skills that have no particular effect when not in the adequate stance (spear bleeds ?) can probably go, even though I prefer to have the possibility to use a useless-ish gambit if I screw up my "plan".

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    St Louis Mo
    Posts
    1,999
    I was wondering if and when this thread was going to start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Torfs View Post
    We already had to stance dance to access specific effects on our gambits, so I don't see this as being an improvement but more of a regression from U6.
    From the way it reads, and other stuff mentioned in the dev chat and other posts by devs since I kinda see:

    1. Stance dancing going away..
    a. STANCES are going away

    2. Wardens will have to wait until out of combat and then they hit their button to change their ENTIRE skill set to go from DPS to Tank or whatever they will call A$$ailment.
    a. Expect only skillset Determination to have aggro holding skills, plus ony those traits to increase aggro to be in this line.
    b. Expect whatever skillset Recklessness becomes to have Aggro DROP skills to the traits.
    c. A$$ailment.. sigh.. probably a continuation down the path of making range skills, with more groupwide support.

    3. Javelin skill will probably be consolidated into A$$ailment trait line.

    4. Travel skills will not be touched.

    BTW.. as an over all statement, looking at the plans... Turbine appears to no longer care about how long time players feel. This will be a re-write of ALL classes from the ground up, so NO one will really know how to play thier class when Helm's Deep comes out. I am rather disappointed but hope I am wrong and they can pull this off. History, on the other hand, begs to differ.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    I was wondering if and when this thread was going to start.



    From the way it reads, and other stuff mentioned in the dev chat and other posts by devs since I kinda see:

    1. Stance dancing going away..
    a. STANCES are going away

    2. Wardens will have to wait until out of combat and then they hit their button to change their ENTIRE skill set to go from DPS to Tank or whatever they will call A$$ailment.
    a. Expect only skillset Determination to have aggro holding skills, plus ony those traits to increase aggro to be in this line.
    b. Expect whatever skillset Recklessness becomes to have Aggro DROP skills to the traits.
    c. A$$ailment.. sigh.. probably a continuation down the path of making range skills, with more groupwide support.

    3. Javelin skill will probably be consolidated into A$$ailment trait line.

    4. Travel skills will not be touched.

    BTW.. as an over all statement, looking at the plans... Turbine appears to no longer care about how long time players feel. This will be a re-write of ALL classes from the ground up, so NO one will really know how to play thier class when Helm's Deep comes out. I am rather disappointed but hope I am wrong and they can pull this off. History, on the other hand, begs to differ.
    I'm a pretty big Turbine critic, but wow...

    What makes you think stances are going away? I'll bet the farm they stay.

    My ability to tank while dps traited, or dps while tank traited will likely be going way down, but currently if i want to respect from tanking to dps, I have to map to galtrev and visit the bard, then map/port back before continuing on my way.

    Whats wrong with a class that wields a legendary Javelin having a ranged dps stance? a buff to our group buffs is certainly in order for this line to be what was originally intended, but what do you think is a better third role than ranged dps to go along with melee dps and tanking?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Long Island, New York
    Posts
    51
    Quote Originally Posted by Darlgon View Post
    1. Stance dancing going away..
    a. STANCES are going away
    I would agree that it can be expected that our stances will be going away, according to the chat and various dev journals all classes with stances will have the stances replaced or edited in some way. I think however, that considering many wardens find the ability to swap stances in a fight to be useful, a chance to change this in the HD beta will arise. I doubt that a few complaints would scrap the whole idea, but we might actually be able to get a compromise. I would even be satisfied with a restriction to where determination is not available when traited DPS, but at least we can switch between recklessness or assailment. It still isn't extremely overwhelming. The one thing I would find downright stupid and naive for turbine to do, is to not let PvP wardens swap out of assailment in combat. I switch to recklessness constantly when I am "too close" for assailment. Of course, removing the "too close" would also fix this.
    On a note a bit unrelated to what is stated above: I am rather eager to see if the trait trees affect our DPS positively, such as an actual trait line dedicated to ranged damage instead of some weird anti-threat/dps and cooldown reduction hybrid.

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload