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  1. #1
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Exclamation TRANSCRIPT: Twitter Dev Chat August 21, 2013 - Class Changes

    Members of the LOTRO team answered over 40 questions during a recent live developer chat on twitter. The focus was on the Class Changes coming with Helm’s Deep this fall.

    The members of the dev team who took part, and what they’re working on.

    • Matt "Hoarsedev" Zimmitti - Lead Systems Designer (Classes)
    • Jared “Amlug”Hall-Dugas – Senior Designer (MTX)
    • Trevor “Jinjaah” McEwen – Associate Systems Designer (Classes)
    • Erika “Deviled_Egg” Ng – Associate Systems Designer (Classes)
    • Rick "Sapience" Heaton - Community Manager




    Hi Everyone, we're going to start just a little early with questions submitted via the forums. Here we go! #LOTRO


    Q1: bgriggs: Are the current virtues and traits being incorporated into the new system at all? #LOTRO
    A1: HoarseDev: Virtues will remain mostly the same. Traits are now completely rolled into the new system. #LOTRO

    Q2: Yulin-Gladden: How will these changes effect Mounted combat? Are those skils getting a revamp as well? #LOTRO
    A2: Deviled_Egg: Any benefits gained from these new traits will be isolated from Mounted Combat. #LOTRO

    Q3: Leixy: Using war-steeds as a template, how will trait points be earned and spent on trait trees? #LOTRO
    A3: HoarseDev: You’ll earn a point every other level. You’ll also earn points from some deeds. #LOTRO
    A3a:You’ll choose a specialization at an early level that will grant specific bonuses and affect the cost of traits as you spend them #LOTRO

    Q4: WertyJohn: Are you going to revamp combat animations too? #LOTRO
    A4: Jinjaah: We are addressing animations on a case by case basis.#LOTRO
    A4a: Some are far too long and are being shortened to increase responsiveness.#LOTRO
    A4b: Ferocious Strikes for Champions is an example of this. #LOTRO

    Q5: banjolier: For players who spent TP to unlock trait slots, how will you convert our existing purchases to the new system? #LOTRO
    A5: HoarseDev: Your specialization choice gives you access to bonuses as you spend points. #LOTRO
    A5a: These are unlocked in the same way as the old slots and those purchases carry over to the new system. #LOTRO

    Q6: Laire: Will we be able to save different trait set-ups? If so, how many? #LOTRO
    A6: HoarseDev: Two set-ups to start. You can purchase more if you like. #LOTRO

    Q7: Grhysli: How much of this new system is going to be gated behind the LOTRO Store? #LOTRO
    A7: HoarseDev: Only the slots similar to the old Premium/F2P purchases and additional builds after the two you get for free. #LOTRO

    Q8: Schinderhannes: Will the update allow us to use 4 legendary traits at the same time? #LOTRO
    A8: HoarseDev: No, but the ones you have will be more potent. #LOTRO
    A8a: Deviled_Egg: Legendary traits are now a part of each trait tree, and are available for purchase at the end of the tree. #LOTRO
    A8b: There is also a Legendary Passive bonus that depends on your specialization.#LOTRO
    A8c: This will be unlocked when you spend a certain number of points overall. #LOTRO

    Q9: Mildford: Will the new traits system be offered to creeps too? #LOTRO
    A9: Jinjaah: Creeps will be getting Corruption Set Bonuses but not full on trait trees. #LOTRO

    Q10: Grimdi: Will there be detailed dev diaries on the upcoming class/system changes before HD release? #LOTRO
    A10: Deviled_Egg: We are planning to release dev diaries for each class. #LOTRO
    A10a: Sapience: I see many long hours of editing in my future... #LOTRO

    Q11: Raven-EU: What was the primary driver(s) for this change? #LOTRO
    A11: Jinjaah: I think there were two main things that drove these changes: #LOTRO
    A11a: 1. We wanted to design the trait trees in such a way that as soon as you leave the intro, #LOTRO
    A11b: your trait line starts to play as it was envisioned instead of later on down the road when you began to collect traits. #LOTRO
    A11c: 2. We really wanted each trait line to sort of stand out from the rest and reduce some of the class homogenization #LOTRO
    A11d: that had slowly occurred over the years. #LOTRO

    Q12: Zombielord: Will retraiting still require our character visiting a bard/class trainer? (Hope not) #LOTRO
    A12: Jinjaah: Nope! Respeccing your trait tree can be done on the fly so long as you are out of combat. #LOTRO
    A12a: Deviled_Egg: The process is similar to how you re-trait in Mounted Combat #LOTRO

    Q13: Silmelin: Can minstrels still switch (with in game silver) between being as strong as possible War-speech minstrels #LOTRO
    Q13a: who can enjoy all the solo content of the game, and as strong as possible healers who'll get invited to Instances and Raids? #LOTRO
    A13: HoarseDev: You can switch builds with silver. #LOTRO

    Q14: Judi: Will there be a new class added to the game? #LOTRO
    A14: HoarseDev: Not for Helm’s Deep. #LOTRO

    Q15: Laire: Using all of their points, on average how many active skills does a 85 toon have? #LOTRO
    A15: Jinjaah: Our goal, and it isn’t the same across the board, is for all classes to have around 20 skills after spending all their points.
    A15a: Things like travel paths will not count towards this cap. #LOTRO


    Q16: medwulf: will the class changes affect LI's and Legacies at all? #LOTRO
    A16: HoarseDev: Ugh, we have a lot of updating to do. #LOTRO

    Q17: Moochi: How will the new system afford us the same flexibility we have now, #LOTRO
    Q17a: without buying many trait sets through the store? #LOTRO
    A17: Jinjaah: A lot of time and effort was put into the construction of the trees to encourage spending points #LOTRO
    A17a: in trees that you did not specialize in. #LOTRO
    A17b: The new system should offer various forms of hybridization to explore.#LOTRO


    Q18: @BhorisTheSpider Will the class changes mean a L95 character may be less potent (healing/damage) than an corresponding L85 character? #LOTRO
    A18: HoarseDev: They'll be more potent in their specialization. This will come at the cost of broad utility.

    Q19: @greendragoon Is there going to be any effort to streamline the Warden's massive (and convoluted) abilitiy list? #LOTRO
    A19: DeviledEgg In short, yes. Some gambits are being trimmed, some are being placed in different specialization.
    A19a: The total number of gambits will be decided by how you choose to specialize.


    Q20: @osmihu Can you give some specific examples of specializations? #LOTRO
    A20: Jinjaah The hunter could choose between the bowmaster or huntsman. #LOTRO
    A20a: Huntsman has less range, but can induct on the move. #LOTRO
    A20b: Where the bowmaster has much greater range, but must plant his feet to deal damage. #LOTRO


    Q21: @ForgotMyGambits Hunters currently have a lot of skills. Will there be skill consolidation? #LOTRO
    A21: JinJaah Yes. There is some skill consolidation to reduce the overall skill count to around 20.
    A21a: Per specialization. Travel skills won't count towards that number. #LOTRO

    Q22: @brrzap can we change specializations later or is this a 1-time choice? #lotro
    A22: DeviledEGG Yes you can change your specializations. Respecing your tree will also allow you to choose a new specialization.

    Q23: @osmihu Will skills still be purchased from the trainer or gained from the tree? #LOTRO
    A23: JinJaah Some will be gained from the tree, others will be auto-granted based on level. #LOTRO

    Q24: @mavegibson Will there be dramatic changes to the skills we have, and will there be skills specific to our trait lines? #LOTRO
    A24: All: Yes and yes!

    Q25: @ElinneaG Will new characters be able to see all the traits/skills before choosing a specialization? #LOTRO
    A25: HoarseDev Yes. You'll be able to see all specializations and trees before deciding. #LOTRO

    Q26: @Gihalahad will players have to sacrifice surviveability for damage?
    A26: HoarseDev. Yes and vice versa. Though there is room to dip into both.

    Q27: @nick_wilbur you guys keep saying specialization will be chosen at a low level & bonuses granted. Initially, what can we expect with toons at 85?
    A27: DeviledEGG We'll autogrant you the correct number of points for your level. #LOTRO
    A27a: Deeds that previously gave traits will give trait points. #LOTRO
    A27b: You can choose your specialization and spend your points when you login when HD goes live. #LOTRO

    Q28: @landlover64 how different will the play style of our characters be with the changes to how they play now? #LOTRO
    A28: DeviledEgg They'll still feel like the class you know, just better versions. #LOTRO
    A28a: Jinjaah They should feel better catered to the role they were destined to fill. #LOTRO

    Q29: @miofli Will certain currently unused trait lines, eg the yellow hunter line, change role? #LOTRO
    A29: Jinjaah Traitlines like the hunter's yellow line are being revamped more than others. #LOTRO
    A29a: DeviledEGG In general we want each traitline to feel just as good as the next. #LOTRO

    Q30: @corynettnin Classes like cappies and champs are considered off-tanks. Will these changes move them closer or further from being "real" tanks?
    A30: DeviledEGG Each tanking specialization will be effective, but in its own way. #LOTRO

    Q31: @skinnynakedboy will all hunter traps become skills and are there going to be more traps available as they have potential but are underrated #LOTRO
    A31: Jinjahh Hunter traps are becoming skills.
    A31a: They will be usable in combat and some have had their potency changed to make them feel less 'underrated'. #LOTRO

    Q32: @Aelrindel what about creeps classes and traits? #LOTRO
    A32: Jinjaah Creeps will be getting corruption set bonuses. #LOTRO
    A32a: These bonuses give various buffs and effects based on the corruptions slotted. #LOTRO

    Q33: @Scoed To respec for silver, will we have to refund and respend all points, or just the parts we want to change? #LOTRO
    A33: HoarseDev It's all or nothing. #LOTRO

    Q34: @Ranni Will the trap skills share a common cool down? #LOTRO
    A34: Jinjaah No, they will each have their own cool down. #LOTRO

    Q35: @Merry_Forest88 Can we expect increase of power and abilities from under-power Lore-Master Pets and Captain Herald? #LOTRO
    A35: DeviledEGG We are trying to better balance the potency of LM pets and Capt. Heralds. #LOTRO

    Q36: @eldaeriel can you tell us any timeframes? For dev diaries, beta testing of changes #lotro
    A36: Sapience You can expect to see them "Soon". You'll get an 11.3 Dev diary first. End of the week. #LOTRO

    Q37: @Lord_Dolvic will we still have "use skill X" deeds, legendary trait page deeds and quests? Will they now reward trait points? #LOTRO
    A37: DeviledEGG Completing these deeds will now reward trait points.
    A37a: Jinjaah If you have already completed these deeds, your progress will be carried over. #LOTRO

    Q38: @Crappledumpkins Recently chickens & a referee have been spotted at the Hobnanigans field again. Will this event be returning soon?
    A38: Amlug WE're working on it. WE have no ETA, but we'd like to see this make a return. #LOTRO

    Q39: @leixicon will all trait lines still be auto-unlocked for VIPs? #LOTRO
    A39: Hoarsedev Yes they will. #LOTRO

    Q40: @JVaughn227 What's being done to address the current in game lag and severity of it?
    Q40: Sapience Some changes are going in to address mounted combat lag with Update 11.3.
    Q40a: We also continue to add more monitoring tools to help isolate other issues.


    Q41: @paspinall42 What about the disparity in the class deeds,, with changes in levels for skills and the like some can complete faster than others.
    A41: DeviledEGG We're aware of this issue and we're addressing it. #LOTRO


    That's all the time we have today! Thanks for all the great questions. A transcript will be posted to the forums shortly. #LOTRO
    Last edited by Sapience; Feb 06 2014 at 11:22 AM.

  2. #2
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    Thanks for taking the time to answer so many questions. This was a very informative and exciting chat.

  3. #3
    Since classes are being revamped, skills changed, renamed, re-purposed, etc., are you going to allow other races, along with the current, within the class?

  4. #4
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    A great post to read, much like the Big Battles thread.

    This 11.3 intrigues me; such a minor update needs a developer diary? So I wonder what is being added, unless it is for the Farmer's Faire.

    One thing I didn't see mentioned, is what will happen with Racial traits? Are they being revised/changed/removed?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post

    This 11.3 intrigues me; such a minor update needs a developer diary? So I wonder what is being added, unless it is for the Farmer's Faire.
    When you see what the Bounders have cooking up in the Shire, you'll understand why a Developer Diary is in order.

    I'd link to the Bullroarer posts, but they've been swept into the mist.
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  6. #6
    This is a pretty basic question I couldn't find an answer to:

    How many trees can each class choose from?

    Will it be like war-steeds in that there are three types and each type has three trees, each slightly different?

    Or will it be simpler, with just three trees per class, one of which the character chooses to specialize in?

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    Thank you Turbine for doing this chat today. It was very informative, and I just love getting juicy details! The class revamps sound interesting. I'm excited for the individual class dev diaries with pictures!
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    Thumbs up

    Very exciting! Sounds like a new lotro to me.
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  9. #9
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    Related to Q31 (Hunters traps turning into skills instead of crafted consumables). Is the same thing going to happen to Light/Fire oils. Are they going to become skills instead of crafted consumables?

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    No class trainers/bards anymore? Who's next? Suppliers, auctioneers or guild leaders? Towns are getting empty.

    Really looking forward to the dev dairies and more class specific info tho!
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    My notes...

    Q8: Schinderhannes: Will the update allow us to use 4 legendary traits at the same time? #LOTRO
    A8: HoarseDev: No, but the ones you have will be more potent. #LOTRO
    A8a: Deviled_Egg: Legendary traits are now a part of each trait tree, and are available for purchase at the end of the tree. #LOTRO
    A8b: There is also a Legendary Passive bonus that depends on your specialization.#LOTRO
    A8c: This will be unlocked when you spend a certain number of points overall. #LOTRO
    A little confused on this one. It says legendary traits are "available for purchase" at the end of the tree. Please tell me that's with Skill Points and not Mithril Coins and/or Turbine points...

    Q14: Judi: Will there be a new class added to the game? #LOTRO
    A14: HoarseDev: Not for Helm’s Deep. #LOTRO
    Hmmmmmmmmmm...........

    Q20: @osmihu Can you give some specific examples of specializations? #LOTRO
    A20: Jinjaah The hunter could choose between the bowmaster or huntsman. #LOTRO
    A20a: Huntsman has less range, but can induct on the move. #LOTRO
    A20b: Where the bowmaster has much greater range, but must plant his feet to deal damage. #LOTRO
    Woohoo! Hunters can FINALLY shoot while they move.

    All in all, a good dev chat. Didn't get my question answered though.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iktomi View Post
    Related to Q31 (Hunters traps turning into skills instead of crafted consumables). Is the same thing going to happen to Light/Fire oils. Are they going to become skills instead of crafted consumables?
    I hope so. I haven't been able to find Light Oil on the AH for weeks.

  13. #13
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elderban View Post
    A little confused on this one. It says legendary traits are "available for purchase" at the end of the tree. Please tell me that's with Skill Points and not Mithril Coins and/or Turbine points...
    Yes, with points.

  14. #14
    Greetings...

    Overall a good first pass of information about the class changes. As a Champion and Captain I am pleased to read that our tanking roles will be pushed to main tank levels. Or at least that's how I read the dev's response. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Looking forward to more information as it gets passed down.

    One question I have now that I just thought of, which I didn't see raised or answered pertains to passive class skills. As a Captain it drives me to maximum levels of insanity that I am 2% behind the damage eight ball because I choose to use 2h hammers and not swords or halberds. I would love to see these passive bonus damages removed from classes all together or give me an option to get my 2% extra via a deed or trait point somewhere. Really any class that can inherently equip any given weapon ought to not be penalized for choosing that weapon. Dev's any comment on this?

    Cheers,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    This is a pretty basic question I couldn't find an answer to:

    How many trees can each class choose from?

    Will it be like war-steeds in that there are three types and each type has three trees, each slightly different?

    Or will it be simpler, with just three trees per class, one of which the character chooses to specialize in?
    Devs told Hunters will be able to choose between TWO trait trees (huntsman and bowmasters).
    Someone asked later if this was just for hunters or if it was valid to all classes, but they didnt answer.

    They also told useless trait lines will be throwed away (like yellow of hunters).

    Idk the answer about ur other questions.
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  16. #16
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    Devs told Hunters will be able to choose between TWO trait trees (huntsman and bowmasters).
    Someone asked later if this was just for hunters or if it was valid to all classes, but they didnt answer.

    They also told useless trait lines will be throwed away (like yellow of hunters).

    Idk the answer about ur other questions.
    That's not entirely true nor accurate. We gave examples not complete listings of trees. Every word we said is in the transcript above so there shouldn't be any ambiguity in what we did or didn't say. It's all right there.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    Devs told Hunters will be able to choose between TWO trait trees (huntsman and bowmasters).
    Someone asked later if this was just for hunters or if it was valid to all classes, but they didnt answer.

    They also told useless trait lines will be throwed away (like yellow of hunters).

    Idk the answer about ur other questions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post

    Q29: @miofli Will certain currently unused trait lines, eg the yellow hunter line, change role? #LOTRO
    A29: Jinjaah Traitlines like the hunter's yellow line are being revamped more than others. #LOTRO
    A29a: DeviledEGG In general we want each traitline to feel just as good as the next. #LOTRO
    If you read a bit deeper you will see that is not the case.
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  18. #18
    So will weaponsmith trap recipes be removed?

    And people with the deeds already completed will get the trait points automatically, right?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SjsharksBoy View Post
    So will weaponsmith trap recipes be removed?

    And people with the deeds already completed will get the trait points automatically, right?
    They might change it like they did with cosmetic LM pets, where the recipe gives you a consumable to learn a skill instead of what it did previously.

    And yes, people with the deeds already completed get the trait points automatically.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigBack View Post
    Overall a good first pass of information about the class changes. As a Champion and Captain I am pleased to read that our tanking roles will be pushed to main tank levels. Or at least that's how I read the dev's response. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    That's pretty much how I interpreted it as well, but the "in their own way" still leaves me a little wary.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    That's not entirely true nor accurate. We gave examples not complete listings of trees. Every word we said is in the transcript above so there shouldn't be any ambiguity in what we did or didn't say. It's all right there.
    The transcript still doesn't answer my very simple question posted above:

    How many trees can each class choose from?

  21. #21
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    Apparently, I missed the memo declaring that "revamped" is the same thing as "thrown away".
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    Devs told Hunters will be able to choose between TWO trait trees (huntsman and bowmasters).
    Someone asked later if this was just for hunters or if it was valid to all classes, but they didnt answer.
    They used that as an example comparison of two trait lines - this does not mean that there are only two trait lines per class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elderban View Post
    I hope so. I haven't been able to find Light Oil on the AH for weeks.
    I hope not. That would make hunters too overpowered for me.

    Also I asked this during the chat, but never got the answer. What type of consolidation/complete redoing of the traits/skills are being done to make the 20 skills doable for all. The first class that comes to mind is Lore Master. It seems like they will suffer because most of their current skills build on each other and they all serve a purpose.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peresbert View Post
    Also I asked this during the chat, but never got the answer. What type of consolidation/complete redoing of the traits/skills are being done to make the 20 skills doable for all. The first class that comes to mind is Lore Master. It seems like they will suffer along because most of their current skills build on each other.
    The biggest issues I could see is potential removal of things like Burning Embers or Cracked Earth, damaging skills that also have some sort of debuff or CC attached. Personally, when I'm DPSing I don't often use too many debuffs, and vice versa. From the chat it seems that while we'll be focused on one section we should still be able to branch a little bit into others, so I'm not too worried. (Basically, I see it as an LM who is specializing in damage will still be able to access a couple of their debuffs, or heals, or pet things, depending on where they throw their points around.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peresbert View Post
    I hope not. That would make hunters too overpowered for me.
    I could see an option on the tree that has a center skill, then to the left or right are Fire Damage and Light Damage, but you can only choose one, and in order to switch to the other, you would either have to go with another build slot or retrait your current one. Kind of how some of the mount skills work.

 

 
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