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  1. #1
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    Helm's Deep may have our 'inductions on the move'.

    The ongoing Twitter chat today in question 20:

    20Q: Can you give some specific examples of specializations?
    20A: Huntsman has less range, but can induct on the move. Where the bowmaster has much greater range, but must plant his feet to deal damage.
    Finally happy I can get some exercise in instances.


    Read up on the twitter chat here.
    Last edited by zalladi; Aug 21 2013 at 04:55 PM. Reason: Added Twitter link

  2. #2
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    With traps becoming skills I can only imagine the yellow line being full-on crowd control.

    Red - long range, immovable burst damage.
    Blue - shorter range, maneuverable sustained damage.

  3. #3
    You know, thinking on it, the shorter range may actually help many newer hunters who choose to trait down huntsman. Seeing as standing closer to the tanks/healers is almost always conductive to helping manage agro, staying alive, etc, it'll hopefully reduce the amount of hunters that do everything possible to make everyone else's life harder in raids.

    Also, it sounds as if blue line will stay fairly similar to how it is currently, so this doesn't sound bad at all.

  4. #4
    A dream come true.

    Mobility, longer range, traps are individual, etc. based on your selection of build. Seems like this can actually be a very promising update.


    Now I wonder how are the hunter activist are reacting to this.......................... ..

  5. #5
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    Just saw that part of the transcript.



    EDIT:
    Q29: @miofli Will certain currently unused trait lines, eg the yellow hunter line, change role? #LOTRO
    A29: Jinjaah Traitlines like the hunter's yellow line are being revamped more than others. #LOTRO
    A29a: DeviledEGG In general we want each traitline to feel just as good as the next. #LOTRO

    Q31: @skinnynakedboy will all hunter traps become skills and are there going to be more traps available as they have potential but are underrated #LOTRO
    A31: Jinjahh Hunter traps are becoming skills.
    A31a: They will be usable in combat and some have had their potency changed to make them feel less 'underrated'. #LOTRO


    EDIT #2:

    My guess is that there will be no major reworks, but just to enhance what the trait lines does currently, with the exception of possibly yellow.
    Red and blue line becomes the freep version of Keen Eye and Skirmisher Stance.
    As for yellow, my prediction is that it'll become a utility, support line which features CC and debuffs, and maybe other randomness to support the group.

    One good point of the revamp is that you can switch trait lines on the go, so you can probably switch from A to B to handle different situations.

    There were some nice suggestions in the Hunter forums, hopefully Kelsen would pick up (some of) them.
    Last edited by Mildford; Aug 22 2013 at 07:36 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TungstenVeteran View Post
    With traps becoming skills I can only imagine the yellow line being full-on crowd control.
    I'd actually say traps are probably being reworked to debuffs too, not just CC. there is no real CC instances anymore tbh, it's be a wasted line if it was dedicated to CC, and I think they would realise that too.

    I wouldn't be surprised if traps were instant cast on the move too. seems like they realised we like moving more than standing still :P

    Quote Originally Posted by TungstenVeteran View Post
    Red - long range, immovable burst damage.
    Blue - shorter range, maneuverable sustained damage.
    I think red would have choice of both burst and sustained tbh. they have to make the immobile stance more fun in some way, so I'd expect to see some more self buff like skills to fit more into the rotation to heighten the skill ceiling and fun a little. I'd also expect red skills to buff you, so standing still jump pumping out arrows will be rewarding to the hunter, but moving, even a little, would be a pain.

    I think the range of yellow will also be less (maybe 30m like huntman and bowmaster at 40?), yellow being better at popping into melee and getting off some big melee hits and even being the aoe hunter. aoe with maybe trible bear traps or fire traps or something. I would like yellow to be much more viable, maybe aoe+debuffs+survivbility will do?

    I'd also say blue will again be the Ez mode power saver. survivability simply from being able to move. who knows if we'll still get a slow in huntman though, able to perma keep up a slow and running around in circles is maybe too much :P so maybe we'll lose stances and have them as spec bonuses? still can't wait

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by TungstenVeteran View Post
    With traps becoming skills I can only imagine the yellow line being full-on crowd control.

    Red - long range, immovable burst damage.
    Blue - shorter range, maneuverable sustained damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    I think red would have choice of both burst and sustained tbh. they have to make the immobile stance more fun in some way, so I'd expect to see some more self buff like skills to fit more into the rotation to heighten the skill ceiling and fun a little. I'd also expect red skills to buff you, so standing still jump pumping out arrows will be rewarding to the hunter, but moving, even a little, would be a pain.

    This is kinda how I predict it will be:
    Red: Skill Tree could be having skills that increases your damage multipliers and bonuses for standing still.
    Blue: Skill tree setup could be based on increasing in-combat-movement-speed and lowering attack duration/inductions.
    Yellow: Entirely based on debuffing enemies with Dots to CC to damage,etc.

    Legendary Skills/passives:
    Red: Something like burn hot but with likely more damage multipliers.
    Passive would be like increase number of focus generated while standing still.

    Blue: Something alone the line of Improve Fleet buffing the fellowship.
    Passive: Increase natural movement speed? Lower induction rates?

    Yellow: No clue...........
    Passive: No clue.........

  8. #8
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    Colour me cautiously optimistic. This actually sounds pretty interesting.

  9. #9
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    sounds like red for pve and yellow/blue pvmp?

  10. #10
    This is pretty exciting! It might be enough to bring me back to the game!

  11. #11
    This makes me sad. It will make the hunter even easier and make the focus system pointless. Why completely change how a class is played after so many years?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    This makes me sad. It will make the hunter even easier and make the focus system pointless. Why completely change how a class is played after so many years?
    i actually like the idea, you'll see many different builds this way, much less boring than how it is now, almost all hunters are built the same, now you will see and use different set ups, i for instance can see me using blue and red lines in different occasions (pve or pvmp) which makes personalization even a bigger factor

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mildford View Post
    Indeed.

    Inductions on the move and dropping traps in combat were the only two things I wished for. Even better than you can swap on the fly because I'd only find myself wishing for those in very specific situations.

    So far the changes look promising, I'm pleasantly surprised.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixxer View Post
    i actually like the idea, you'll see many different builds this way, much less boring than how it is now, almost all hunters are built the same, now you will see and use different set ups, i for instance can see me using blue and red lines in different occasions (pve or pvmp) which makes personalization even a bigger factor
    I would love to see a useful yellow line and more options for customization. My only problem is completely changing how the class is played and making it far easier than it already is by allowing inductions on the move. It goes completely against what the hunter is all about. Just mouse over your focus bar and read the description.

  15. #15
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    This gives us far better personalization. As someone mentioned, almost all hunters use the same traits. With trees, hopefully you wont need to jump into a single line and slot useless traits to unlock capstone. Far greater utility and whole new system to have fun with. Wont be long till the number crunchers go to work and have that typical "best" setup figured out.

    As far as movement goes, its.still.gonna be pretty similar outside of moors. Im not gonna be running around for no reason during a boss fight. Soloing ability will be much higher though. Seems like its gonna be quite OP in pvp.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    As someone mentioned, almost all hunters use the same traits. With trees, hopefully you wont need to jump into a single line and slot useless traits to unlock capstone.
    What I'm hoping, is that once you have traited into the capstone of one trait tree, you will still have some fair amount of points leftover to spend in the other trees. If they all had to be spent to get the legendary of one trait tree, I'll be quite disappointed.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Taravith View Post
    Indeed.

    Inductions on the move and dropping traps in combat were the only two things I wished for. Even better than you can swap on the fly because I'd only find myself wishing for those in very specific situations.

    So far the changes look promising, I'm pleasantly surprised.
    The traps in combat is big, not going to lie that's going to be nice. I still want a bit more substance in the melee area, and Im willing to give up ranged dps for it. I don't expect us to be champs but when Im pulled into melee id like it be an option to be able to actually fight and do damage with off hand. This is more a moors specific desire but I think its applicable, the tree's have the potential to do this. Again it would be nice to have a build that gives you moderate damage in melee and ranged. Still cautious on the tree's, IMHO cry of the hunter has made the moors hunter very balanced. Yes we die but we are ranged dps, cry is just an awesome survival skill its been a real boon for me. of all the freep toons I think the hunter is the best balanced for moors (everyone has to die, it isn't pve) and end game at this point. Add in some more melee options/buffs and (with the trapper line enhanced) this toon is complete for me.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by zalladi View Post
    What I'm hoping, is that once you have traited into the capstone of one trait tree, you will still have some fair amount of points leftover to spend in the other trees. If they all had to be spent to get the legendary of one trait tree, I'll be quite disappointed.
    Hope its like the mounted combat bridle point allocation. Where you can have a little bit of everything and maxing one and some of the rest.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    This makes me sad. It will make the hunter even easier and make the focus system pointless. Why completely change how a class is played after so many years?
    We don't know how harder or easier things will be yet and how does revamps makes focus pointless?

    Why completely change classes?
    1.) Gives new chance to rebalance the classes.
    2.) Allows more creativity in builds rather than everyone having the I-win-builds.
    3.) Updating the game so that it can still compete with the next-gen MMOs in the market.
    I can go on and on but just leave it with these 3 as the main reasons.
    Last edited by lioheart; Aug 22 2013 at 08:02 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    My only problem is completely changing how the class is played and making it far easier than it already is by allowing inductions on the move. It goes completely against what the hunter is all about. Just mouse over your focus bar and read the description.
    if your going to marry a skill or mechanism. I advice you leave early. that is not the way to go into a class revamp, you'll be crying nurf at every little thing and ignore the big picture.

    focus is just a mechanism too. it doesn't define the hunter. there are many, many, many viable mechanisms turbine could use. enough for every single sub-class to use it's own mechanism and feel differant. while I don't think they'll go that far. I expect each line to play with focus in a differant way. like 1 being about keeping focus low and you get a buff (keeping up sustained damage, probably huntmans) getting your focus to the top and to unleash bigger hits (probably red line, focus on burst and induction skills getting focus up) or melee AND ranged AND traps giving and using focus forms to mix and match your skills (so maybe melee/traps get boosted by ranged focus skills, and ranged focus skills get boosted by using traps)

    again. go in with an open mind.

    I think the better question here is "why not update the classes?"

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post
    if your going to marry a skill or mechanism. I advice you leave early. that is not the way to go into a class revamp, you'll be crying nurf at every little thing and ignore the big picture.

    focus is just a mechanism too. it doesn't define the hunter. there are many, many, many viable mechanisms turbine could use. enough for every single sub-class to use it's own mechanism and feel differant. while I don't think they'll go that far. I expect each line to play with focus in a differant way. like 1 being about keeping focus low and you get a buff (keeping up sustained damage, probably huntmans) getting your focus to the top and to unleash bigger hits (probably red line, focus on burst and induction skills getting focus up) or melee AND ranged AND traps giving and using focus forms to mix and match your skills (so maybe melee/traps get boosted by ranged focus skills, and ranged focus skills get boosted by using traps)

    again. go in with an open mind.

    I think the better question here is "why not update the classes?"
    Focus doesn't define the hunter class? Do you even play a hunter?

    Was that first part really needed? Why act like that. How about, if you can't handle other peoples opinions, you leave the forums? This is not how you go about particiting in forums as you'll continually be crying about other opinions.
    Last edited by Cirgellon; Aug 23 2013 at 01:38 PM.

  22. #22
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    I think the upcoming revamps would be pretty interesting. Should allow for a more 'hunter like' feel than it is now. Thats what I think anyway..
    I mean focus DOES define the hunter gameplay now, but why should it ONLY be focus that defines the hunter as a class? Trait trees is just a step towards that direction.

    Wont be long until I-Win-Builds become universal again and most people using the same setup. Number crunchers will go to work asap.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Was that first part really needed?
    yes.

    there are many people who are still, without even knowing how it'll look play or feel are judging it so much. anything now is nothing more than speculation and you can't say something defines the class as that might change a lot.

    ok maybe the "just leave now" is a little harsh. but I'm going to hate the first few weeks while people cry nurf then giggle to myself as people realize there are better parts in the puzzle.

    but if your going into a class revamp without a clear mind. your already setting up the rest of the experiance for a fall. like imagining a film is good/bad, your probably not going to get a fair experiance. why many film buffs hate adverts, you really need to go into the film and just enjoy it as it is. same with class revamps. we know just design notes if that. we've got some fears removed (unable to swap spec) but still some are around (skill gating), on the other side we really shouldn't be kissing there behind just yet until we've played it.

    why I said don't marry a skill or mechanic. just go in open minded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cirgellon View Post
    Focus doesn't define the hunter class?
    no it doesn't. again, it's just a mechanic, a medium to it's end goal.

    if I told you the sword master on Warhammer uses the dancing mechanic. does that tell you anything about him? no, sword master is a melee tank, an ok dps class but best in 1v1's.

    you could use focus in a tanking class or healer class. in fact there's a melee dps/aoe/tanking class called the champion who uses fevour which is damn close to focus.

    I'm not saying focus will go, but I expect it to change in someway. and each line to use it in it's own way. so focus on red line will not be the same in blue line. you would have a lot of veraity in play style than just your rotation but how you get to short term goals and how your whole class will play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patriotp3a View Post
    Wont be long until I-Win-Builds become universal again and most people using the same setup. Number crunchers will go to work asap.
    thats the brilliant things about more pure classes. how can someone say a debuffer (I expect traps to be more debuff than before) is better than a dps? there differant rolls. how can you say standing still in better than moving? there different, one is good in that situation, and the other there.

    some examples of no need to number crunch:
    1. this instance is a dps race, well I'm not going to trait yellow, I also need to move a lot, well huntsman it is. no number crunching needed.
    2. this instance is a dps race too, well I'm not going to trait yellow I'll be stood still a lot... and I need some huge burst damage! better trait red...
    3. this instance doesn't need my dps tbh, we need to just be slow on the boss, It'd be better if I supported the group. better trait yellow.
    4. this big battle is all about huge waves of mobs. tons of them!!! if there all together, they get uber buffed, I better trait yellow to CC a chunk off then aoe help.
    5. this big battle is has some nasty big dudes, we have the support in the group anyway and our tanks will be fine. but we need someone to pop around and take out the little goblins who try explode in the group, I can take these fast guys easier in blue.
    6. oh ####, I'm the only dps in the group, I better focus all out dps turret style and be the rat. red all the way to mangle them down and show them our dps is going in the right area's.


    can you see? that sort of thought process doesn't even need number crunching. sure there will be times imbetween, but we can retrait on the fly, so why not just retrait every boss fight/every trash pull? I think even as a hunter, we'll be mini-maxing a lot between lines and few traits inbetween while tanks with only one line (captain/champ/warden) will be very straight forward.

  24. #24
    That was quite the waste of a post. Did you really think I was going to read past the first word of it? Why would I care what you think? You are crying about an opinion... What a clown.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bohbashum View Post

    some examples of no need to number crunch:
    1. this instance is a dps race, well I'm not going to trait yellow, I also need to move a lot, well huntsman it is. no number crunching needed.
    2. this instance is a dps race too, well I'm not going to trait yellow I'll be stood still a lot... and I need some huge burst damage! better trait red...
    3. this instance doesn't need my dps tbh, we need to just be slow on the boss, It'd be better if I supported the group. better trait yellow.
    4. this big battle is all about huge waves of mobs. tons of them!!! if there all together, they get uber buffed, I better trait yellow to CC a chunk off then aoe help.
    5. this big battle is has some nasty big dudes, we have the support in the group anyway and our tanks will be fine. but we need someone to pop around and take out the little goblins who try explode in the group, I can take these fast guys easier in blue.
    6. oh ####, I'm the only dps in the group, I better focus all out dps turret style and be the rat. red all the way to mangle them down and show them our dps is going in the right area's.


    can you see? that sort of thought process doesn't even need number crunching. sure there will be times imbetween, but we can retrait on the fly, so why not just retrait every boss fight/every trash pull? I think even as a hunter, we'll be mini-maxing a lot between lines and few traits inbetween while tanks with only one line (captain/champ/warden) will be very straight forward.
    Ah yea, sorry didnt explain myself better. What i meant was X setup is the best for this. y setup is best for that. Its not really number crunching unless the dps part. There will be build threads within the week of launch i take it. People runnign tests and posting data

 

 
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