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  1. #1
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    Give R0s more skills and traits?

    Basically the title. You've removed most sense of achievement of rank already. Why not give R0s more skills and traits to start off with, and lower rank requirements for the betetr skills/traits? The only thing I can think of is Turbine losing money from all the people buying skills and traits.

    please consider this
    Last edited by TiberPancake; Aug 18 2013 at 07:55 PM.

  2. #2
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    To be fair, freeps do have to do something before they can come to the Moors. They have to go through 85 levels. Granted, that is easy, but they have to do SOMETHING before they get all their skills.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    To be fair, freeps do have to do something before they can come to the Moors. They have to go through 85 levels. Granted, that is easy, but they have to do SOMETHING before they get all their skills.
    Still, at least reduce the max rank for all of the skills/traits to a MUCH lower rank, that would be alright.

    My main point is you can't solo or 1v1 at all on a greenie, bar the occasional low rank hunter who tries to use heart seeker for all the fight, maybe at least starting new creeps off with more skills or traits would work?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    To be fair, freeps do have to do something before they can come to the Moors. They have to go through 85 levels. Granted, that is easy, but they have to do SOMETHING before they get all their skills.

    Getting to 85 is easy. Getting all the gear you need to survive in the Ettenmoors isn't. It's not that it's hard, it's just horribly time consuming. You have to farm runs over and over for seals to get your FA's (provided you bother with them, I didn't.) or be lucky enough to have one drop for you in an Erebor raid. Then you have to do even more instance grinding to get all your sodding jewellery, and I've heard of people doing hundreds and hundreds of runs and still not getting that earring or ring they want. Then you have the Commendations grind which players on freep and creepside have to go through.

    So yeah, I don't really want this to happen at all. The store already negated a ton of the challenge in playing a creep with the ability to buy everything you need. It's the same for freeps as well for the most part, with all those perks and stat tomes, etc.
    Eniigmatik | Exploit

  5. #5
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    I do not believe handing out all skills and traits to low ranks would be a good idea. I don't like the concept of handing people that which they haven't earned. To my knowledge, not all traits and skills are available on the store, and so some must still be earned.

  6. #6
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    Okay then, I edited the thread a bit to suit peoples liking maybe a bit more

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I do not believe handing out all skills and traits to low ranks would be a good idea. I don't like the concept of handing people that which they haven't earned. To my knowledge, not all traits and skills are available on the store, and so some must still be earned.
    Really?

    I could have sworn all corruptions/race/class traits/skills for Monster players were available for purchase on the store. I haven't checked though, can't get LOTRO to load properly at the moment.
    Last edited by TheOrcsBane; Aug 18 2013 at 07:53 PM. Reason: needed to add something
    Eniigmatik | Exploit

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrcsBane View Post
    Really?

    I could have sworn all corruptions/race/class traits/skills for Monster players were available for purchase on the store. I haven't checked though, can't get LOTRO to load properly at the moment.
    I'm pretty sure that a handful of skills are not available, though I might be wrong.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I'm pretty sure that a handful of skills are not available, though I might be wrong.
    I picked up 3 skills (r10 bleeds, impale) for my lowbie reaver during the last sale. As far as I could tell, every trait, corruption, and skill was available in the store.


    To the OP: 100% agreed. Rank should have a meaningful reward structure tied to it, but the ability to play your class as it is designed should not be an element of it. Freeps and creeps are apples and oranges, that freeps have to level to cap to earn their skills is of no real relevance to creeps 'earning' skills.

    I'd prefer a restructuring of the Battlefield promotions so that especially higher ranks get more meaningful passive boosts for new ranks.

    Being rewarded for rank is a meaningful part of the 'moors, and should be maintained, but forcing lower ranked creeps into either garbage gameplay or buying skills is not the right avenue for rewards.
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  10. #10
    At this point, I wouldn't care if they gave the skills away at rank 0. It wouldn't really be fair to those who worked hard to get theirs, but it would probably mean more good fights and potentially less people turning to the zerglords to rank up.
    "Heroes get remembered but Legends never die."

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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I don't like the concept of handing people that which they haven't earned.
    I tend to agree with you, however, I am in favour of creeps starting off with all their skills, traits and corruptions at rank 0. At the moment skills, traits, etc are effectively rewards for attaining rank X (or bought from the store). I don't particularly like that structure because skills, traits, etc are actually needed to be effective in combat. I would also be in favour of both creeps and freeps being given full Audacity at rank 0 and freeps given a set of PvMP-only equipment (weapons, jewellery, etc). The point of all of this would be to get people into the action ASAP rather than forcing them to acquire a hoard of 'things' before they can take part in PvMP in a meaningful way. I can't speak for anyone else, but I go into the Ettenmoors to fight other players, not to grind out skills, etc.

    A new reward structure could be put in place that grants cosmetics, appearances, titles, emotes, mounts, etc. In other words the rewards would not be required to take part in PvMP, they would simply be interesting/fun/flashy rewards that one could show off as a sign of one's progress in PvMP.

  12. #12
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    I'm definitely in favour of creeps getting more abilities earlier on, but not all of them. The problem lies with the sometimes vast amount of time that certain classes require to get the 'good' skills and traits, which are fundamental to their function, such as for instance, the Defiler and his Advanced Blight (Rank 15!), or just a BA, which doesn't even have Revenge until rank 10.

    I think all such skills should be available by rank 8 or 9, and all ranks thereafter only offer perhaps continued enhancements to passive abilities (such as Health, Resistance, Armour, etc), and maybe improved corruptions.

  13. #13
    Keep creep skills rank gated the way they are now, but change the cost of all skills from commendations to silver/gold.

    The only thing a fresh 85 freep entering the moors has to worry about is commendations for Audacity. They don't have to buy skills, traits or corruptions with commendations - they've earned all that already from leveling to 85.

    This puts them at a distinct advantage over your fresh unranked creep - who not only has to buy 12 levels of audacity, but has to choose between buying class skills/traits to become useful or Audacity to stay alive.
    Lockjawz - R13 Warg - Brandywine

  14. #14
    What is the purpose? What is the rationale?

    Some are talking about how many skills a freep has upon arriving at the Moors at 85. But an 85 freep, on average, spent a lot of time getting to 85. An 85 creep has to create a character and log in. If it's about what they have upon arrival, the fairness factor doesn't work.

    Is it that each character in the Moors should be a viable 1v1 candidate with an opposing new arrival? Most veterans will tell you that even having all the skills doesn't make you good with them, time and repetition do. Still, if your goal is to even the playing field for new arrivals and make audacity the only real 'grind' for either side, that makes some sense.

    I would tend to side with 'compressing' the gated scale, giving more of the skills at earlier levels, but not all at rank 0. I think 'some' progression is good and rank, with the recent changes in renown/infamy buffs (and rampant farming), serves little other purpose.

    For balance purposes, rank gating some audacity pieces might make sense for freepside. I had so many comms to spend, I had full sets of gear for 2 other level 85's before they took a step off the GV steps.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I'm pretty sure that a handful of skills are not available, though I might be wrong.
    This is correct, Vital Target & Improved Vital Target cannot be purchased thru the store. I have not checked up on this for many months tho, so it may have changed.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Freeps and creeps are apples and oranges
    Yet you can eat both apples and oranges, but right now, apples can eat oranges, but oranges not apples.

    To the OP: while I agree that lowbie creeps need to get buffed, I don't think this is a good solution, because I think creeps too have to spend a lot of time (zerging isn't exactly "hard") to become competitive.
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