BA stances

[avaaescaner]

Which Blackarrow stance is better when?
I guess Skirmisher is the best for solo. In raids Keen Eye deals more dps or the lower damage in Skirmisher is compensated by the faster attacks?
I would appreciate comments/experiences on this regard

Thank you
Oscar

[Squelcher]

In raids, Keen Eye is almost always going to be better. When running solo or in small groups, it really depends on the freep classes you come up against. Keen Eye is useless if you face melee opponents.

[TackyFailz]

In raids, Keen Eye is almost always going to be better. When running solo or in small groups, it really depends on the freep classes you come up against. Keen Eye is useless if you face melee opponents.

I beg to differ. Honestly Keen eye wins over all Vs everything except burgs and that's only because of addle honestly. As long as you can move correctly Keen eye is very viable against melees.

[Tharvendall]

It really depends, i personally never stick with one stance all the time. I have them on shortcuts, G and H because i switch alot between the two. Back in RoI i never used Keen Eye because it had a really large speed debuff, now it's much more useful.

In raids, i'm in Keen Eye 80% of the time, when i get ratted i switch to Skirmisher and start kiting. When i'm solo... well then it depends which class i come across.

[Squelcher]

I beg to differ. Honestly Keen eye wins over all Vs everything except burgs and that's only because of addle honestly. As long as you can move correctly Keen eye is very viable against melees.

To be honest, I think that a BA would be decimated in a 1v1 against a champ if the champ knew what he was doing or made use of sprint and slows/stuns.

[TackyFailz]

To be honest, I think that a BA would be decimated in a 1v1 against a champ if the champ knew what he was doing or made use of sprint and slows/stuns.

Not sure exactly what your response was meant for because if it is a solid champ and he did use sprint and slow/stunned appropriately you would lose in either stance in fact more so skirmisher due to it's main beneficial attribute is the ability to shoot on the move and avoiding damage. If a champ is to use sprint it effectively removes that attribute that skirmisher has but keen eye if sprinting or not you still have that 25% increased damage and as long as you know how to stay with them as far as LoS is concerned you still have a chance.

[Grumpisaw]

I beg to differ. Honestly Keen eye wins over all Vs everything except burgs and that's only because of addle honestly. As long as you can move correctly Keen eye is very viable against melees.

I agree completely, keen eye is better, the only time I use skirmisher stance is against burgs, or I switch to it when I need to kite. But, skirmisher stance isn't much better than default, DPS remains the same.

[Squelcher]

Not sure exactly what your response was meant for because if it is a solid champ and he did use sprint and slow/stunned appropriately you would lose in either stance in fact more so skirmisher due to it's main beneficial attribute is the ability to shoot on the move and avoiding damage. If a champ is to use sprint it effectively removes that attribute that skirmisher has but keen eye if sprinting or not you still have that 25% increased damage and as long as you know how to stay with them as far as LoS is concerned you still have a chance.

Well, you might be right, but if you pop your MT you can survive for most of his sprint, and then when his sprint runs out, Skirmisher will allow you to kite him and avoid the vast majority of his damage. Granted. I'm not a very experienced BA.

[BirdofHermes]

Well, you might be right, but if you pop your MT you can survive for most of his sprint, and then when his sprint runs out, Skirmisher will allow you to kite him and avoid the vast majority of his damage. Granted. I'm not a very experienced BA.

Alas, no. Sprint lasts 45 seconds, MT only 30 seconds. And MT's effective duration is severely reduced against Champions (2 stuns in the duration), which also gives the Champion ample time to apply Hamstrings to prevent kiting if he hasn't killed your BA yet by the time MT is over.
If you are up against a Champion who knows what he's doing, you will die as a BA. But that is true against most classes, since nearly every class has a way to bypass MT.

[TheOrcsBane]

Skirmisher will allow you to kite him and avoid the vast majority of his damage.

Hit him with a slow, brand, and burst.

[Squelcher]

Alas, no. Sprint lasts 45 seconds, MT only 30 seconds. And MT's effective duration is severely reduced against Champions (2 stuns in the duration), which also gives the Champion ample time to apply Hamstrings to prevent kiting if he hasn't killed your BA yet by the time MT is over.
If you are up against a Champion who knows what he's doing, you will die as a BA. But that is true against most classes, since nearly every class has a way to bypass MT.

I know about the differences between MT and sprint times, but MT will last for most of it.

[BirdofHermes]

I know about the differences between MT and sprint times, but MT will last for most of it.

Roughly half of it. For about ~25 seconds you can reduce a Champion's DPS by about 40% through evading. But in most cases, that will not save a BA. Unless you're very close to a healer.

[Tharvendall]

If you have Gash traited, it's a nice counter against sprint

[BirdofHermes]

If you have Gash traited, it's a nice counter against sprint

Indeed, it takes off a nice chunk from their Morale. Unfortunately it heals right back up.

[avaaescaner]

Thank you everybody for your replies

[FinchFries]

I've ran mostly solo and small groups for nearly 2 years and I find that keen eye is dominant over skirmisher.. The only time I use skirmisher is if i am facing a high ranked champ or guardian(90% of the time for all guards). Keen eye has proven its dominance over all other classes for me.

[Shumzuda]

To be honest, I think that a BA would be decimated in a 1v1 against a champ if the champ knew what he was doing or made use of sprint and slows/stuns.

I 1v1 champs daily and can beat most of the champs on the server, I always use keen eye and I never use MT/uruk heals.

You just need to be clever with your class and make sure you use your headshot/gash stun effectively while slightly kiting them inside a fire trap. I spend about 95% of my time in Keen Eye; with the tier 5 attack duration reduction and the class trait swift bow it is usually very easy to get your skills off, especially if whoever you are fighting is slowed.

[BirdofHermes]

I 1v1 champs daily and can beat most of the champs on the server, I always use keen eye and I never use MT/uruk heals.

You just need to be clever with your class and make sure you use your headshot/gash stun effectively while slightly kiting them inside a fire trap. I spend about 95% of my time in Keen Eye; with the tier 5 attack duration reduction and the class trait swift bow it is usually very easy to get your skills off, especially if whoever you are fighting is slowed.

I'm sorry but you must be fighting some terrible champs if they allow themselves to be stunned and slowed. They have skills specifically against that sort of thing, why don't they use em? The key against a BA is to nullify their initial CC and Hamstring them, then kill them when they can no longer kite.

[Shumzuda]

I'm sorry but you must be fighting some terrible champs if they allow themselves to be stunned and slowed.

They have a skill which nobody uses called continuous blood rage/bloodrage that gives you CC immunity/removes a stun respectively. However I have never seen them actually use those skills as they cost a whole lot of morale.

The key against a BA is to nullify their initial CC and Hamstring them, then kill them when they can no longer kite.

I don't mean slow kite around them in skirmisher stance, I just mean slightly kite them around the fire trap while in keen eye. Agreed, some champs are harder than others but there is definitely strategies you can use.

[BirdofHermes]

They have a skill which nobody uses called continuous blood rage/bloodrage that gives you CC immunity/removes a stun respectively. However I have never seen them actually use those skills as they cost a whole lot of morale.

See above. If they aren't using it they are just bad champs, there's no nice way of saying it I'm afraid. That "skill which nobody uses" is used by pretty much every champ I know. It's simply a stupidly powerful skill, especially in PvMP when facing a BA or Weaver. If they don't use it, they can be CC'd and then kited.
Once again, the key to killing a BA is not being CC'd in the first few seconds so you can get up close, interrupt, put Hamstrings on and get rid of MT with stuns. CBR + Sprint allows one to do that. BA can't run, BA can barely evade, and BA gets killed.
And no, it doesn't cost a whole lot of morale, only 10% of max. That's peanuts for a champ with bubbles and self heals.

I don't mean slow kite around them in skirmisher stance, I just mean slightly kite them around the fire trap while in keen eye.

So did I. There's no point all-out kiting a champ because a decent champ can't be kited in the first place.

Agreed, some champs are harder than others but there is definitely strategies you can use.

There are certainly strategies you can use. But a good champ can counter any strategy a BA can come up with (provided they're not near oneshotters ofc). From what you've said so far you give the impression you're fighting on a server with some really terrible champs, and this may be hard to believe, but it's because a BA is a very limited class in terms of skill utility; they only have so many options before they simply run out of skills. You use two stuns, a slow, a firetrap, MT, a heal, and...oops, out of utility skills. Whereas champ is currently the opposite with a variety of slows, stuns, CC immunity, sprint, heals, insane dps, bubbles, most of which are on short cooldowns.

[Shumzuda]

And no, it doesn't cost a whole lot of morale, only 10% of max. That's peanuts for a champ with bubbles and self heals.

I believe we are misunderstanding each other slightly. I am writing about the situation of organised 1v1s where champs don't use bubbles/dire need/exalted combat and BAs don't use MT/uruk heal. In my situation the use of blood rage is rare because they can just use insignia/pots to clear stuns and I don't like to slow kite them anyway in that situation. Here, if they use 1500 morale using the skill I am very likely to beat them with my normal dps output.

Free roam sure any champ worth their salt can kill you if they use enough skills. Glad I cleared that up.

[Reshi]

There are certainly strategies you can use. But a good champ can counter any strategy a BA can come up with (provided they're not near oneshotters ofc). From what you've said so far you give the impression you're fighting on a server with some really terrible champs, and this may be hard to believe, but it's because a BA is a very limited class in terms of skill utility; they only have so many options before they simply run out of skills. You use two stuns, a slow, a firetrap, MT, a heal, and...oops, out of utility skills. Whereas champ is currently the opposite with a variety of slows, stuns, CC immunity, sprint, heals, insane dps, bubbles, most of which are on short cooldowns.

This is basically the issue. A well geared, ranked and skilled champ going all out with a proper rotation should never lose to a BA in an open field fight. Given that fact, the skilled champs are the ones that don't need to rely on the cooldown crutches littered haphazardly across their skillbar. There is a kind of etiquette in the 1v1s where using MT for BAs and using excessive CDs for a champ would be considered bad form, and the results are largely based off of skill with movement and turning as well as rotations and throwing your opponent off their game (and hax and crits and what have you). Of course, in the 1v1 gatherings we're talking about, if a champ bubbles every 10 seconds, dire needs and traits a gear-swapped bracing + morale pot at every opportunity, the solution is to not fight them.

If you just happen to randomly run into one of those people elsewhere, well good luck.

[Glohir]

I believe we are misunderstanding each other slightly. I am writing about the situation of organised 1v1s where champs don't use bubbles/dire need/exalted combat and BAs don't use MT/uruk heal. In my situation the use of blood rage is rare because they can just use insignia/pots to clear stuns and I don't like to slow kite them anyway in that situation. Here, if they use 1500 morale using the skill I am very likely to beat them with my normal dps output.

Keep in mind that organised 1v1 rules can be different in every server.

In my server it's pretty common a champ uses some bubbles, or an uruk uses his urukheal in an organised 1v1 so that makes the situation a bit different.

[Shumzuda]

Keep in mind that organised 1v1 rules can be different in every server.

In my server it's pretty common a champ uses some bubbles, or an uruk uses his urukheal in an organised 1v1 so that makes the situation a bit different.

On your server BAs use Moving Target in 1v1s? Maybe suggest not using CDs, makes fights much cleaner.

[affected7]

Always but always keen eye.

Gives burst dps and you need 5 inductions to maximize it and keep it that way.

Also if you see that the freep you are fighting makes your life hard with inductions just hit gash take your distance while adding snare then nuke if they guy is still to close and you cant hit inductions you can always switch stances depending the situation but i highly doubt Skrimisher stance can beat any good freep besides cappies and burglars.