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Thread: moors revamp

  1. #1

    moors revamp

    what do you all think about making some of these changes to moors

    First-completely take out all npcs from moors

    Second-that would make things boring in such a big map therefor take out some of the huge gaps we have with nothing in it and maybe even isen and grim or something and just make the map smaller which should=less looking and more fighting

    Third-With no npcs what about keeps? well all keeps would be taken out as well except gv and grams

    Fourth-instead of keeps we would now have ruins, trees, hills, ect. with more thinking involved into what to put in the map
    -maybe more thought into places that we could fight and how to make environment fun to work with and some fun areas to have to think and use strategy to get a up on the opposing side.
    -so make ruins where people can hide and places to get on top of so while there coming up you get start or idk something fun you can hide or hills with paths up two it but one in back and one in front only so the opposing side has to think how to confuse the other side or something like that.
    -to sum it up just fun environment that could be used in battle

    Fifth-make pots unavailable both sides. This would first simple things down a bit, second, make the well his stun is potable excuse invalid. This would go for both sides and even take out morale pots that way what happens....happens.

    Six-discuss
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    what do you all think about making some of these changes to moors

    Fourth-instead of keeps we would now have ruins, trees, hills, ect. with more thinking involved into what to put in the map
    -maybe more thought into places that we could fight and how to make environment fun to work with and some fun areas to have to think and use strategy to get a up on the opposing side.
    -so make ruins where people can hide and places to get on top of so while there coming up you get start or idk something fun you can hide or hills with paths up two it but one in back and one in front only so the opposing side has to think how to confuse the other side or something like that.
    -to sum it up just fun environment that could be used in battle

    Fifth-make pots unavailable both sides. This would first simple things down a bit, second, make the well his stun is potable excuse invalid. This would go for both sides and even take out morale pots that way what happens....happens.

    Six-discuss
    I am on board here, empty ruins are always a good time, just have to make sure there are not too many.

    Pots are for sissies.

  3. #3
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    So, basically, you want to turn the already somewhat small map into a tiny, blank box.

    I could point out the myriad of flaws with this idea but I won't, because it has been suggested before and I've brought up the same issues before. Suffice it to say that it's unworkable.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    First-completely take out all npcs from moors
    No. There are too few and they are too weak as it is. Unless you want to spawn camp all day, the outnumbered side needs a place to fall back to that offers some cover. They don't have it now, but that's due more to the ineffectiveness of NPC's. I would agree with removing NPC's from TA and increasing and diversifying its structural defenses (arrows, oil).

    Second-that would make things boring in such a big map therefor take out some of the huge gaps we have with nothing in it and maybe even isen and grim or something and just make the map smaller which should=less looking and more fighting
    You see them as gaps because you only fight near your map-in points. Remove maps and they're no longer gaps.

    Third-With no npcs what about keeps? well all keeps would be taken out as well except gv and grams
    See point one.

    Fourth-instead of keeps we would now have ruins, trees, hills, ect. with more thinking involved into what to put in the map
    I know what you're getting it, but if you have numbers, you don't need to think tactically if there's no threat of defeat. What you would be doing is trying to figure out how to prevent your zerg-prey from fleeing, it wouldn't be about winning or losing.

    Fifth-make pots unavailable both sides. This would first simple things down a bit, second, make the well his stun is potable excuse invalid. This would go for both sides and even take out morale pots that way what happens....happens.
    I think there's a case to be made for this. Or make everything on both sides pottable. But some things pottable and some things not is inconsistent and needs to be fixed.

  5. #5
    Unfortunately, you can't remove all npcs because many players in this game when it comes to pvp are bad and need aid of npcs if they get caught solo, so then the easy kills would never come out lol.

    Also, for raiding purposes, npcs are needed in case one side vastly outnumbers the other. I wouldn't mind seeing a further reduction of npcs, or more well-placed ones, aka bring back hotspots for good time , screw OPs.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    what do you all think about making some of these changes to moors
    Let's discuss...

    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    First-completely take out all npcs from moors
    Negative, but we could use the npc's more effectively. I have suggested, in the past, that they scale the keeps/npc's. So, Lug, which the creeps used to pride themselves in holding (same for tr on freepside) you make the npc's significantly tougher, more morale, they hit harder, so if your enemy has plans to take that keep or zerg for you - they will pay a more significant price. My hope is that this change would focus more of the fighting towards the center of the map.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    Second-that would make things boring in such a big map therefor take out some of the huge gaps we have with nothing in it and maybe even isen and grim or something and just make the map smaller which should=less looking and more fighting
    Smaller is not better, end of story.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    Third-With no npcs what about keeps? well all keeps would be taken out as well except gv and grams
    See point #2 above...

    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    Fourth-instead of keeps we would now have ruins, trees, hills, ect. with more thinking involved into what to put in the map
    -maybe more thought into places that we could fight and how to make environment fun to work with and some fun areas to have to think and use strategy to get a up on the opposing side.
    -so make ruins where people can hide and places to get on top of so while there coming up you get start or idk something fun you can hide or hills with paths up two it but one in back and one in front only so the opposing side has to think how to confuse the other side or something like that.
    -to sum it up just fun environment that could be used in battle
    I like the idea, but leave keeps... I'm not a huge fan of more obstacles, but I play an induction-based ranged class, so my disdain is personal.

    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    Fifth-make pots unavailable both sides. This would first simple things down a bit, second, make the well his stun is potable excuse invalid. This would go for both sides and even take out morale pots that way what happens....happens.
    I only use root/stun pots and morale, I am indifferent to this idea, I do think the store has become far too invasive when it comes to PvP, but that's just my opinion.

    I also hate audacity (and the legendary system, but that's another thread for another day) but if ti has to stay, make it independant of your gear, like it is on creepside.

    Get rid of creep maps, the current set-up of the moors with outposts as important as they are to mastery, fining creeps is hard when they can port all over the place. Heck, with all the run speed boosts to creeps since lvl 65 does there have to be maps as well? I've always suggested converting the warg class to goblin (a few of the skills would need to be re-named and re-labeled, but overall a good fit) and have creeps use wargs as mounts.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r10 (active) Mini

  7. #7
    in other words ~New Map~.

    and now back to the real world where we realize stuff won't change no matter how much we want it to, they refuse to invest and take a leap of faith with PVMP claiming there aren't enough people playing it, well with that mindset you will never have more people playing ever in fact only less.

    it's like wanting to have 100 costumers in your restaurant every day when it looks terrible the food is bad and the service is horrible, how can you possibly expect results if you refuse to really invest in it?.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    Let's discuss...



    Negative, but we could use the npc's more effectively. I have suggested, in the past, that they scale the keeps/npc's. So, Lug, which the creeps used to pride themselves in holding (same for tr on freepside) you make the npc's significantly tougher, more morale, they hit harder, so if your enemy has plans to take that keep or zerg for you - they will pay a more significant price. My hope is that this change would focus more of the fighting towards the center of the map.



    Smaller is not better, end of story.



    See point #2 above...



    I like the idea, but leave keeps... I'm not a huge fan of more obstacles, but I play an induction-based ranged class, so my disdain is personal.



    I only use root/stun pots and morale, I am indifferent to this idea, I do think the store has become far too invasive when it comes to PvP, but that's just my opinion.

    I also hate audacity (and the legendary system, but that's another thread for another day) but if ti has to stay, make it independant of your gear, like it is on creepside.

    Get rid of creep maps, the current set-up of the moors with outposts as important as they are to mastery, fining creeps is hard when they can port all over the place. Heck, with all the run speed boosts to creeps since lvl 65 does there have to be maps as well? I've always suggested converting the warg class to goblin (a few of the skills would need to be re-named and re-labeled, but overall a good fit) and have creeps use wargs as mounts.
    I definitely like the concept of buffing certain keep's NPCs. NPCs in Isen/LC can stay the same, as can the NPCs in a Blue Lugz or Red TR. TA ones could use a moderate boost, and a red Lugz, or blue TR a more sizeable buff. Give ALL keep NPCs the hounding fear ability, so you can't simply outrun them while you zerg to the top/quest room for your opponents.

    I think ruins with lots of obstacles would be a huge buff for ranged/induction based classes, tbh. This just sounds like a recipe for hunter camo-ganks from spots that have limited access points and good LoS. Extremely well thought out and designed landscape features would be great, but I don't think its going to get any development resources, they're either be buggy junk, or poorly designed so as to favor certain classes/play choices.

    If DR effects were doubled, and their reset timer tripled, getting rid of pots would be fine, the amount of time you can still be greybarred to death with full audacity and pots is appalling, getting rid of pots altogether with no changes to anything else would just be silly. Currently, DR on any effect resets after 20s, and i think its 10 applications before immunity. Make the reset 1 minute, and 5 applications to immunity and we can talk about this more.

    Every debuff/DoT/etc should be pottable, make people think about the order the apply skills, and preventing some of the stupidity of many freepside DoTs (Spear warden here, btw).
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rugba View Post
    it's like wanting to have 100 costumers in your restaurant every day when it looks terrible the food is bad and the service is horrible, how can you possibly expect results if you refuse to really invest in it?.
    The Chicago Blackhawks took a while but they figured this out once they ousted their man at the top, now they have a quality product that sells and is available on local TV.

    There are many stories of companies investing in the product and the end result being amazing. I do benieve that lotro has the foundations for really great PvP, it just needs some work.
    Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // Akthuri r15 LM // Vishus r5 Captain // Curad r10 (active) Mini

  10. #10

    Recent 20 Questions

    Q8: What is the future looking like for pvp? Is it basically a done deal for Turbine with no future? Is it considered a burden that they just want removed from the game? Or is it something they would like to revive and try to make better? Are the couple PVP only council members basically wasting their time with trying to work on pvp stuff?

    A8: We don't have any serious big features planned for PvMP in the near term. We've got time booked to rebalance things to accommodate the Freep class changes and we've got a few ideas that might be interesting... or really may not happen.
    The systems changes we are putting big effort into right now on the freep side are focused and challenging. If I were to shake up PvP while trying to get everything else balanced, I assure you everything would suffer. – HoarseDev.

    Q9: What about small PvMP features? fixes? little mechanic changes? Did you know that the bridge from TR rez to the outpost has 2 bridges rendered?

    A9: In the short term, we're going to be focused on the effects of the class changes to PvMP balance. These changes have the potential to change a ton of dynamics, even though they are not changes directly to Creeps. Time and feedback will be best spent there. I've got the threads in the suggestion forum to chew on and there is good stuff in there. For now, I'm not going to open those worm cans just yet. - HoarseDev
    Leafblade, Captain
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by staveisle View Post
    Did you know that the bridge from TR rez to the outpost has 2 bridges rendered?
    This question always made me laugh because those two bridges were intentionally put there because the devs were too lazy to create a new model that would be large enough to fill the gap.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    This question always made me laugh because those two bridges were intentionally put there because the devs were too lazy to create a new model that would be large enough to fill the gap.
    Every time I see those bridges I wonder if they'd let someone from outside just make a stupid bridge for them. It looks shoddy and lazy and it should only take a single person a few days to make a new bridge entirely from scratch. They went through all the effort adjusting the map of the zone, making a new EC/OC, and all that jazz, and couldn't make a silly bridge?

    Heck, if they wanted to reuse models they could've used one of the several different rope & wood plank bridges. That would look fine.
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  13. #13
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    I like bigger zone. Ideally more zones that are actual pvp zones - maybe tiered in difficulty, or even other pve zones open to both factions (like DoF).

    I like the idea of buffing the NPC's in Lugz and TR, keeping them the same in TA/LY as they're neutral zones. Additionally, the impact from the quest release mobs (An, Mazouk, etc) could be more significant and perhaps even necessary for taking a keep.

    I'd also love to see some siege weapons - at GV/Grams (to curtail camping) but also at the keeps - maybe one positioned to protect the back door.

    But alas, the devs must see to the greater good of the overwhelmingly pve community.

    MORE FESTIVALS!!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by stormshadowking View Post
    what do you all think about making some of these changes to moors

    First-completely take out all npcs from moors

    Second-that would make things boring in such a big map therefor take out some of the huge gaps we have with nothing in it and maybe even isen and grim or something and just make the map smaller which should=less looking and more fighting

    Third-With no npcs what about keeps? well all keeps would be taken out as well except gv and grams

    Fourth-instead of keeps we would now have ruins, trees, hills, ect. with more thinking involved into what to put in the map
    -maybe more thought into places that we could fight and how to make environment fun to work with and some fun areas to have to think and use strategy to get a up on the opposing side.
    -so make ruins where people can hide and places to get on top of so while there coming up you get start or idk something fun you can hide or hills with paths up two it but one in back and one in front only so the opposing side has to think how to confuse the other side or something like that.
    -to sum it up just fun environment that could be used in battle

    Fifth-make pots unavailable both sides. This would first simple things down a bit, second, make the well his stun is potable excuse invalid. This would go for both sides and even take out morale pots that way what happens....happens.

    Six-discuss
    As a member of the PVMP dev team, I love reading suggestions like this to improve the Moors.

    I think your suggestions to increase freep DPS and give them additional stuns is a good idea. We'll have it in for next update.

    Thanks for the suggestion and happy freeping!

    Sincerely,
    The LOTRO PVMP Dev Team
    Last edited by Ugmo; Aug 23 2013 at 05:06 PM.

 

 

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