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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Question Thoughts on data.lotro.com

    This is mainly a question for Sapience.

    Sapience said somewhere that the reason for discontinuing the data.lotro.com, my.lotro.com and such was because the routine to grab the data from the game to make them available to these web-functions was/is too buggy and needed rewriting. Which was considered too much work for things not that many people used. Which I guess is a fair enough conclusion sadly.

    On the other hand, u must still be transferring data out of the game for the lotteries. As it needs to know character name, server, level, class and maybe more. And if so, would it be hard to at least makes these data available through the data.lotro.com? Maybe along with a few other simple data like crafting skills and kinship name.

    I'm of course fishing for this because of my signature generator. But others could find use of these simple data as well. Like forum hosts who pull data to use in their rosters.

  2. #2
    I doubt Turbine will make this information available to us. One of the complaints about the old character information is that the web data included account ownership in the form of a numeric id. All this information was available to the public. There was this fan operated web database that would tell you all the character on an account. As soon as someone like me said that one character belonged to Yula, they knew all my characters.

    This situation going to be one of the problem with your signature generator. Once somebody generates a signature for one of their characters. You know all their characters.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  3. #3
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    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    This situation going to be one of the problem with your signature generator. Once somebody generates a signature for one of their characters. You know all their characters.
    Fair enough. I'm only asking for simple data though. Not account ID and such. Just data which u readily can see on any character in-game now. Plus maybe crafting skill levels. Which I don't think any would feel they need to hide Personally I don't care about equipped gear and such.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,677
    As you pointed out, they only need to extract a few properties for each character to support Lotteries: character name, level, class, and server. That's it. For their own purposes, they'd also want a few other things (like account ID). However, they should not expose account ID to any public API, nor allow it to be used as the key for queries. Character name + server would suffice for that.

    That would have no character creation data, no character stats or skills, no equipped items, no inventory items, no deeds, no friends list, no kinship name, no PvMP info nor any other sort of data they keep about your character. They have no need for any of that.

    My question is... what practical use would just character name, level, class and server have?

    If you want "more", perhaps you could suggest doing some sort of command-line option like they have for storing off UI settings. "/savecharacter <filename>", for example. There would obviously be no "/loadcharacter" command , and you'd have to get what they could give you from the client. But it could still be useful, and writing that sort of information out to an XML file shouldn't be a difficult task for them - nor provide any additional load on their servers... the client caches a lot of that stuff so it doesn't have to talk to the server to get it whenever you open your character panel.

    Players could then write applications to make use of this XML format, and players who wanted to keep a character "up to date" would need to do their own /savecharacter and then re-run the app as needed. Or perhaps some of that's already possible using LUA... I haven't looked to see.

    Khafar
    Last edited by Khafar; Aug 14 2013 at 08:02 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    7,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Players could then write applications to make use of this XML format, and players who wanted to keep a character "up to date" would need to do their own /savecharacter and then re-run the app as needed. Or perhaps some of that's already possible using LUA... I haven't looked to see.

    Khafar
    The data I want isn't available via lua, if it were made available in Lua, players could do the character dumps themselves for submission.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    As you pointed out, they only need to extract a few properties for each character to support Lotteries: character name, level, class, and server. That's it. For their own purposes, they'd also want a few other things (like account ID). However, they should not expose account ID to any public API, nor allow it to be used as the key for queries. Character name + server would suffice for that.

    My question is... what practical use would just character name, level, class and server have?
    Even just having a characters lvl would be great for my signature generator. This is what changes mostly anyway. And people don't want to update their signature with that info every day.

    Forgot the character race. They probably have that too.

    I agree that character name and server would work perfect as key.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    If you want "more", perhaps you could suggest doing some sort of command-line option like they have for storing off UI settings. "/savecharacter <filename>", for example. There would obviously be no "/loadcharacter" command , and you'd have to get what they could give you from the client. But it could still be useful, and writing that sort of information out to an XML file shouldn't be a difficult task for them - nor provide any additional load on their servers... the client caches a lot of that stuff so it doesn't have to talk to the server to get it whenever you open your character panel.

    Players could then write applications to make use of this XML format, and players who wanted to keep a character "up to date" would need to do their own /savecharacter and then re-run the app as needed. Or perhaps some of that's already possible using LUA... I haven't looked to see.
    Somebody suggested (sry forgot ur name) to make a plugin that could send ur char data to a server. Though it was suggested for another project, it could work here so that if a player wanted to used a dynamic signature image, they could install such a plugin and provide the data themselves this way. I like that idea. But after some thoughts, I realised there is no easy way to ensure that the data is real. Would be too easy to make a program that just filled the DB with nonsense data for any character. And besides, I doubt it's possible for a lua script to send data, beside saving them to a file. So an external program would have to send the data. Idea is getting more and more unsecure. So that is not an option.

    I do realise that I'm grasping a straw. On the other hand, it sounds easy to me to make these already available date accessible. Of course there is security, and probably a bigger mill than I can imagine that this has to go through to be realised. But what do I know?! One can only try

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    The data I want isn't available via lua, if it were made available in Lua, players could do the character dumps themselves for submission.
    That's only going to occur if the data you want happens to already be cached in the client - one of the imperatives for LUA was that it not make server data requests (to ensure it could never cause undue loading, be used for DoS attacks, etc). So... what are you looking for? If it's on the client, perhaps they can expose it. If not, I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Khafar

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    7,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    That's only going to occur if the data you want happens to already be cached in the client - one of the imperatives for LUA was that it not make server data requests (to ensure it could never cause undue loading, be used for DoS attacks, etc). So... what are you looking for? If it's on the client, perhaps they can expose it. If not, I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Khafar
    Notably I want 'Quest Completion' and 'Deed Completion/Deed Progress' logs. I suspect I can do an awful lot with those and some simple information provided by players themselves.
    These two sets of data are cached from the server at login.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    Notably I want 'Quest Completion' and 'Deed Completion/Deed Progress' logs.
    Hmm... the client clearly knows about quests in progress, quests completed this session, plus (I'd guess) state information from past quests which helps it sequence current and future quests. But I don't think it caches the actual list of completed quests. If you ask for that, it takes a while to open up the list - it's clearly making a request to the server for that data. Not sure about completed deeds, or even deeds for regions other than the one you're currently in. By necessity, they're going to be "stingy" sending rarely-used data to the clients, and I doubt they'll want to expose things which aren't cached in the client by default (because they don't want to give players incentives to load up their servers with these big data requests).

    But it certainly never hurts to ask. I'm sure there's data the client has which they haven't exposed yet, and if that would be helpful perhaps they could do so. Any LUA data is "free" in terms of server loading, so I'd think they'd be more willing to provide it.

    Khafar

 

 

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