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  1. #1

    Barrow Downs Survival

    We got the 6 man done a few months back and I want to try the 3 man next. For sure it will be a champ, myself (lm) and probably another champ. I will obviously be main healing. Considering the following:

    Blue
    Improved Flanking
    Light of Hope
    Healer
    PAAI (disease on this run will be high)
    Inner Flame

    AM
    Deep Lore
    Frost lore

    Legendary
    S&S
    Ents
    Unknown.... Never really used the Bog Lurker (better flanks I understand)..... I could go eagle for the self rez....

    Any other LMs main healed this run? Comments on my traiting? I plan to run most of the mitigating virtues as my power/morale, etc are fine.

  2. #2
    I've never done this in a group, just tried to solo it. Futilely I might add.

    Still, here's some of the things that could be useful to think about.

    Even if you choose to use the Eagle, slotting the blue capstone trait could be worth it because it allows you to use Combat Summoning. Bog-lurker does have a stellar flank rate, but the Eagle's rez might be more valuable. Dunno. If going for the Eagle, I'd unslot Sword and Staff and go with Ents, Eagle-friend, and Nature-friend. That would give you a new pet every 5 minutes if you needed it and a rez every 10 minutes if you needed it. Might seem strange to unslot S&S, but your dps will be insignificant in the face of two champs and soldiers so the melee buff doesn't matter much. The mobs in there are, what, from Signatures up to Elite Masters? That means they'll have a decent amount of finesse which will negate a lot of the parry buff. So the only real benefit that S&S gives you is the 577 morale. That's a lot of morale, but would you rather have that or Ents? I'd personally go with Ents, but more morale is always nice.

    As for the blue traits, Improved Inner Flame isn't great, but it does kind of work as an extreme back-up heal I guess. I'd personally shirk it though and go with either Dunadan-learning or one of the pet traits. Always seemed to me that I get more heals and more usefulness out of 17 seconds of normal rotation than standing like a statue to channel a poor heal, but that's just me. The other four traits are the four I would choose though.

    As for the last two traits, there are so many options. I'm not sure I'd go with Frost-lore. That's a trait that is more effective when traiting yellow and fighting boss-types. Doesn't seem that it would provide a whole lot of benefit on swarms of adds who will die fast and have weak induction skills. To replace it, boy, I don't know. If your ICPR is mediocre, Power and Knowledge could be one to go with. Even if you never give power to anyone, that will make it easier to keep up your own. The Secret of Tar is great for damage prevention. Things are much easier when you can run around twice as fast as your enemies the whole time. Master of the Staff maybe for stuns.

    If it were me, I think I'd go with The Secret of Tar and Master of the Staff. That gives the group the option of kiting if things get shaky and, with a 20%ish crit rating and Staff-strike legacy, a 5 second stun every 15 seconds or so plus a little boost to morale. That's just a few ideas, though. There are so many ways to go with those last two traits.

  3. #3
    Pretty much agree with everything Kriskrosed has said. I'd look at the recent healing thread (https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...cause-I-could) ) to get some other general tips on healing, including gear. 4 piece Hytbold Animal friend set is a must. Erebor sets or gear with healing procs (hat of the lonely mountain) would go well too.

    For the two last traits, I personally like deep-lore for instances like this - getting storm-lore to instant stun 8 targets will be handy. Of course the champs will have Horn of Gondor, but you may find the extra lore targets to be handy for fire/wind/frost lore.

    I'd consider either Secret of the Tar or maybe even Fast Loader for the other trait, depending on whether you think you'll be kiting or trying to lock down targets. Given that you are not red-line, you should be able to comfortably take two targets out of the battle with blinding flash, which will be handy if you get a bad mix of Lieutenants.

    Bring a support book if you have one, something with extra bane-flare targets would go really handy in this run

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    I also didn't do such thing but I will say my opinion/tips to it.

    If you want to use high-flanking pet like eagle or bog-lurker and you have 4 pieces of hytbold animal set, you don't really need improved innere flame. I would take hardy companion.

    For the last two slots of traits I would probably take fast loader and improved S.o.P.: Command. You have so +2 target on bane flare, you can so daze/interrupt ranged enemies without problem. The champes will have a little bit better dps because of improved Command. I am not sure if it is still possible to daze lieutnants in 3-man skirmishes. If not, then I would take something else instead of fast loader. Maybe also tar but I am not sure if it will be there enough time for running around. From melee enemies you shouldn't get aggro because of aoe from champs and kite because of ranged one it sounds not good.

    If you will use air-lore (probably yes because of trait) you can have a little bit power problems, even Power and Wisdom could be nice. But this depends more on players. Have you enough icpr? Have champs enough icpr? Without captian many players have power problems. And in long fights like this skirmish it can be a real problem.

    For legendaries, I would take S&S, eagle, bog-lurker (pet summoning in combat). Ents make not much dmg if not red traited. Aoe Stun could be nice, but you have bane flare - first 5s daze can't be broken.

  5. #5
    Tks for the replies. I had forgotten about the summing pet in combat, this has definitely shifted my thought to the Bog Lurker. The run is a massive amount of mobs in a small circle. There are so many traits I could justify taking, I do think the LMs are well placed in the traits as opposed to other classes. Just not enough slots to get them all.

    Never even occurred to me to unslot S&S, I will look at it, but Ents and not 5 red, I'll have to see what the trade offs will be. I expect my DPSing to be minimal after healing, debuffing and CC. I had considered SoP:C Love the debuffs from it.... So many choices, but I am leaning to the bester debuffs I can to help mitigate the healing I will need to do.

    I have the healing set for hytbold, so good there, +2 bane flare is works due to having to stay in a small area. Good idea to look at getting the legacy on a book, I may modify my raid book [it is so dusty ] and add + Bane Flare Targets. Down side to my CCs will be I expect the Champs to be in full blown AoE blender mode, so bane flare, roots, etc will be used mostly as interrupts and to keep them back until we are ready.

    I have picked up several titles for my LIs specific for undead.

    @Kris... This run has tons of bosses, in fact as I understand it the challenge is to last and not kill a boss. I am still thinking Frost Lore may be a good choice. You may wish to try 6 man over soloing it. For our win we took:

    Guard (with the +10 aggro)
    LM
    RK x2 1 heals and 1 Fire AoE (allowed for 2 DNFtD and 2 rocks) and the DPSing RK could flip as required.
    Champ
    Cappy (RC were critical, 2 rezzes, buffs, etc)

    Feel free to toss in any more thoughts.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuaje View Post
    Never even occurred to me to unslot S&S, I will look at it, but Ents and not 5 red, I'll have to see what the trade offs will be. I expect my DPSing to be minimal after healing, debuffing and CC. I had considered SoP:C Love the debuffs from it.... So many choices, but I am leaning to the bester debuffs I can to help mitigate the healing I will need to do.
    I would definitely keep S&S over Ents if you're going 4 or 5 blue deep. The DPS may not help but the morale will, as will the parry (a little, anyway). Definitely will help you more than a somewhat high AoE attack every... what, 5 minutes? I know it's something 4 or longer when you're not traited deep enough in red. The stun isn't too useful on a cooldown like that either, not with Bane Flare working like it does now.

  7. #7
    One more thought - pack plenty of Parables. Pop one before you transfer to the champs so that it doesn't dip too much in your own power pool.

    Also, you'll often get flanks when everyone is at full health. You can wait a few seconds to see if anyone needs a heal and just before the flank expires, pop a staff sweep. Since you're packing a high flank rate pet, you may be able to stay topped up on power without needing to trait Power & Wisdom.

  8. #8
    Oh I see. That does change things. I checked and you're right. To complete the deed The Mercy of the Free Peoples, you can't kill any lieutenants for the first 30 minutes of the fight. Not sure if there's any benefit to keeping them alive longer, but at least for that first 30 minutes, that's a lot of potential damage. Still don't know if I'm sold on The Study of Frost-lore though, but it would depend on your strategy.

    If the champs plan on just standing there and tanking everything, then Frost-lore would be okay. It's just, the trait only gives a 5% bonus, and you'll only be able to keep it up half the time. Plus correct, me if I'm wrong, but only some of the attacks done by undead are tactical, not all. Plus the lieutenants are just normal lieutenants from other skirmishes, right? A lot of their attacks are physical. Add it all up and the trait saves you, in total, maybe 2% of damage? 1%? Somewhere in there? Helpful, yes, but not hugely.

    The real bonus would be the part that increases induction length. If your strategy involves lots of induction interruptions, then yeah, The Study of Frost-lore would be a great help. With two champs, yourself, and the Eagle if you choose to use it, that's a lot of potential interrupts. Especially if you got unlucky and a couple of those Venomous Blood-arrows spawned, induction interruptions would be critical. So I could see slotting it for that reason.

    If your goal is solely damage prevention though, The Secret of Tar could potentially do a lot more for you. Champs do have to stay in melee range obviously, but still, just a dash of kiting could save you a lot more than one or two percent of damage. Plus, any time they needed a breather, they could kite for five or ten seconds, take practically zero damage, regen health, and then get back to work.

    Or here's something better. Estelrandir, I ran the first 10 minutes, and the lieutenants are indeed susceptible to CC. So if you feel up to it, you could chain root them, and when chain rooting, Sticky Tar is veeery helpful. Makes resists and mobs that break loose when re-applying Cracked Earth a lot easier to manage. Without The Secret of Tar, every third rotation, you'd have to do some scrambling to keep things manageable. With The Secret of Tar, you would always have the comfort of knowing you could literally run circles around any lieutenant that broke free. Add in a couple of mezzes and you could take up to seven lieutenants out of the fight for as long as their morale lasts. That's a massive shift in strategy that The Secret of Tar makes a lot easier to execute.

    I guess that's what I'm trying to get at. The debuff bonus from The Study of Frost-lore is not large enough to really change anything. The induction modifier from it can because it opens up a strategy not previously feasible. The Secret of Tar opens up two. Deep-lore, a good choice it looks like with the nature of that challenge, more than doubles the impact of your debuffs and your long cooldown CC skills. Power and Knowledge removes the need to worry about power consumption. That's the kind of impact I'd be looking for from those last two traits.

    You are right, though. Sure would be nice if we could just slot them all.
    Last edited by kriskrosed; Aug 16 2013 at 01:11 AM. Reason: Typo

  9. #9
    We did a kin raid of survival barrows recently, and found there is a bug that makes the mobs get *extremely* fast after the first 15/20 minutes. Fast - as in moving as fast as an arrow.

    I'm not sure if this bug exists for 3/6 man versions of the instance. I hope not, otherwise perma-rooting groups via cracked earth is going to be nearly impossible.


    Update: see post here (https://www.lotro.com/en/forums/show...rrently-broken ) which says they are moving at 3000% (!!!!) speed.

  10. #10
    Tks for the extra ideas, I am looking forward to running BDS this weekend. I have not run it to death and I get to trait other than 5R, Dunadain and PAAI..... I have not seen a bard in 5 months.

    That run speed is insane! But sort of matches what I expect, the instance is supposed to ramp up and get harder each min. Our best 6 man was 38 min, the damn reflective grims were the death of us. I think we had 4 grims up at the end with us trying to slow DPS them when a Troll LT popped in..... End of run. The LT types that show up definitely have a bearing on the survival time.

    I have never used parable, this sounds like a place they may be useful.

  11. #11
    Thought I would pass on my experiences this weekend. The healing went exceptionally well. I went 5 blue with SoP:Command and Deep Lore. No real issues up to the 13 min mark, both champs stated they were not using any pots or heal skills. With one exception, they were blendering the mobs. As expected though, the reflecting lights were the issue. They had to slow dps down to almost nil to keep from suiciding, this allowed more mobs to start stacking. After a bit I could not keep up with the reflective damage and straight damage they were taking. We died around the 18 min mark.

    The Bog Lurker provided exceptional heals through the continual air lore and flanks. That was keeping one champ with max morale almost full time with an occasional water lore. I concentrated water lore and beacon of hope on the other. I did get a fair amount of healing agro, nice in a way as it showed I was pumping out the heals like I had hoped to do.

    Next run will be a guard and champ. With the bigger vit pool we are thinking he takes the lights and the champ will cover the rest. If you are bored and looking for something new to try, give it a shot. we had a lot of fun.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tatuaje View Post
    Thought I would pass on my experiences this weekend. The healing went exceptionally well. I went 5 blue with SoP:Command and Deep Lore. No real issues up to the 13 min mark, both champs stated they were not using any pots or heal skills. With one exception, they were blendering the mobs. As expected though, the reflecting lights were the issue. They had to slow dps down to almost nil to keep from suiciding, this allowed more mobs to start stacking. After a bit I could not keep up with the reflective damage and straight damage they were taking. We died around the 18 min mark.

    The Bog Lurker provided exceptional heals through the continual air lore and flanks. That was keeping one champ with max morale almost full time with an occasional water lore. I concentrated water lore and beacon of hope on the other. I did get a fair amount of healing agro, nice in a way as it showed I was pumping out the heals like I had hoped to do.

    Next run will be a guard and champ. With the bigger vit pool we are thinking he takes the lights and the champ will cover the rest. If you are bored and looking for something new to try, give it a shot. we had a lot of fun.
    Thanks for the update -sounds like fun!

    I wonder, do you know if the reflect is the same for ranged as it is for melee? The fire-tender in Smaug does a 100% reflect against melee, but appears to do less reflect against ranged attacks (I've never measured, but it seems to be 25-50% reflect).

    If ranged get less reflect from the lights in Barrow Downs Survival , then it may be worth running with a hunter/rk/mini instead.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toreldor View Post
    Thanks for the update -sounds like fun!

    I wonder, do you know if the reflect is the same for ranged as it is for melee? The fire-tender in Smaug does a 100% reflect against melee, but appears to do less reflect against ranged attacks (I've never measured, but it seems to be 25-50% reflect).

    If ranged get less reflect from the lights in Barrow Downs Survival , then it may be worth running with a hunter/rk/mini instead.
    it is a little bit off topic but I will explain a little bit this reflecting:
    Fire-tender in Smaug: Smaug's fire reflects 150% dmg, it plays no role if melee or ranged or tactical. But at same time, fire-tender reduces ranged/tactical dmg by 80% (or by 75%, I don't remeber well). Example. You hit fire tender with 1000 melee, you get 1500dmg back. You want to hit the fire-tender with 1000 ranged, but it will be reduced to 200. And then, you get 300dmg (150% von 200) back. So the reason lies in reduced dmg, not in reflection.

    I don't know how much the lights in Barrow Down reflect but if it is not specified in description then they will reflect all kinds of dmg.

 

 

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