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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Bonuses are killing PvP

    The bonuses in the Ettenmoors need to be removed.

    If you have all of the keeps, the Delving bosses and you stack on the store buff, you've got a 300%+ infamy/renown/commendation bonus.

    That's all great and wonderful, except for one small detail.

    "Flippers".

    If one side has a higher bonus, many players will "flip" to that side.

    For example, last night the creeps on my server had the advantage in the Ettenmoors. They had all of the keeps and all of the Delving bosses, so that guaranteed that they had a minimum of a 200% bonus, if not more.

    Unfortunately, it also meant that the Creeps outnumbered the Freeps nearly three to one.

    This also happens when the Freeps have the higher bonus numbers as well.

    So, as you can see, the bonuses are not creating the "balance" that the developers had intended in the Ettenmoors. It's creating an imbalance in the number of players, which, when you tack on the bonuses from the keeps and outposts, makes for a very poor game for the opposing side.

    Also, FWIW, it has, basically, also turned the Ettenmoors into a "PvE zone" which a lot of PvP players are not happy with.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Despite the flaws in the map bonus systems, I believe that PVP has far more pressing issues that need addressing.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Despite the flaws in the map bonus systems, I believe that PVP has far more pressing issues that need addressing.
    what Squelcher said, like the bonuses on gear that freeps can swap in mid combat.....
    Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerglor View Post
    what Squelcher said, like the bonuses on gear that freeps can swap in mid combat.....
    I could be wrong, but I don't see that as much of an issue...on Landroval anyway. Seems to be an awful lot of effort just for some armor bonuses.

    But, yes, there are more pressing problems, like lag (server or client side), exploits, farming, botting, etc.

    Still, the bonuses do affect gameplay in ways that I believe the developers had not intended.

    For example, on my server, there's one raid leader Creepside that will not go up against the Freeps until they have taken all of the outposts, all of the delving bosses and - if possible - all of the keeps.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elderban View Post
    I could be wrong, but I don't see that as much of an issue...on Landroval anyway. Seems to be an awful lot of effort just for some armor bonuses.
    One word. Macros.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Elderban View Post
    .....For example, on my server, there's one raid leader Creepside that will not go up against the Freeps until they have taken all of the outposts, all of the delving bosses and - if possible - all of the keeps.
    Those objectives can be defended you know; distracted opponents also die easiar.
    Stylen R13 Warg
    Lincor R6 Minstrel, Alluthir R6 Champ, Inbur R10 Burg

  7. #7
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    Jun 2011
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    Waterford, Ireland
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    One word. Macros.
    This.
    Many freeps who employ gear swapping in combat on a regular basis will make use of macros to allow them to switch an entire set with a single command.

  8. #8
    If anything pvp has issues with everything from: bonuses to overpowering to poorly implented well everything too graphical glitches on every server where just about every model looks like it's broken the warg models are worst broken ones as a majority of warg models have graphical glitches. but due to years of neglect by turbine I don't think anything in pvp will ever be fixed at all not even the graphical glitches.

  9. #9
    I don't think they should get rid of the keep buffs at this point in time, but nerf them, severely even I'd be fine with. Another thing is they really need to get rid of auto-flips.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Insane979 View Post
    Those objectives can be defended you know; distracted opponents also die easiar.
    Yes, they can, but it's usually past 1:00 AM EST or before prime-time when they flip them, so when most people head out for prime-time, the map is red, and the Freeps have a 0% bonus, so our options are to fight creeps as we are or go PvE and take things back.

    Furthermore, if we do flip a keep like TR or LC, it generally auto-flips back within 15 minutes. Another issue that needs to be resolved, as it happens a lot to us, even when the map is already in the Creeps favor. We took TR three times one night, and every single time it auto-flipped back...one time was not five minutes after we took it.

  11. #11
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    Well if one side got most buffs then you should form a raid and capture keeps to balance it. But yeah in a game where it's very easy to just switch to the other side that can be a problem. Maybe increase the cooldown on freep to creep from 5 minutes to 15 minutes. I know it was 1 hour before, but that's way too long.

  12. #12
    The bonuses have been very bad for quality PvP. Too easy to abuse with greater numbers. There needs to be a risk associated with the bonus. The more infamy/renown buffs the more damage you take or less healing, etc.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DutchEZmoder View Post
    Maybe increase the cooldown on freep to creep from 5 minutes to 15 minutes. I know it was 1 hour before, but that's way too long.
    I'm all for that. 15 minutes isn't that long of a wait, but is just long enough to keep flippers from flipping.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    113
    From my experience on Brandywine, the taking of keeps doesn't incite flippers to a great extent (the odd hardcore easymoder here and there, but they don't get into raids because of it).

    There is an issue with the buffs though. Infamy/renown inflation is ridiculous. 50+ points for a RvR kill? Even more with store buffs? That is STUPID. ALTER the buffs to affect comms, sure, or mits or damage (a small amount), not points. It's insulting to see people ranking so fast after the days of hard earned ranks during MoM and SoA. With the point inflation and kb deed change, it really is saddening.

    Adjust the numbers. 20 for a kill in a raid, max. 150 for a solo. Inbetween for groups.

  15. #15
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    Jun 2011
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    What I did was go unvip now I can only play my warleader and. Reader. I am also known to lead raids and creep side on my server needs all the help they can get. Though I am a creep Irl so monster play makes me feel complete
    [url=http://www.sigcreator.com/][img]http://www.sigcreator.com/generatedsigs/17322151200lotro_lotro07.png[/img][/url]

  16. #16
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    Nov 2007
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    the timer has a far more drastic effect on flipping than over-inflated point gains ever could.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  17. #17
    I say remove the OP buffs, maybe make them 10% renown buffs.
    They really broke the "slowing down" effect of audacity, and "OP wars" occur too often, with each side running to each outpost, trying to get an edge before encountering the other.
    All that mastery really adds up, and shows a significant difference in solo fights.
    Such a difference shouldn't lie with something as trivial as an OP.
    [img]http://s22.postimg.org/ok6eiwpb5/sofar.jpg[/img]

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingX View Post
    I say remove the OP buffs, maybe make them 10% renown buffs.
    Yeah, let's make ranking even easier!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingX View Post
    They really broke the "slowing down" effect of audacity, and "OP wars" occur too often, with each side running to each outpost, trying to get an edge before encountering the other.
    Actually I've found that it has resulted in fights around the map, fighting for OP control. Especially common places are just outside AE outpost and west of Hithlad outpost (and/or on the bridge). A nice change from the old STAB/EC shuffle.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingX View Post
    All that mastery really adds up, and shows a significant difference in solo fights.
    Such a difference shouldn't lie with something as trivial as an OP.
    Sorry, this game isn't based around solo pvp, it is about RvR. If you wish to play solo pvp, please find a different game, or suck it up princess.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreepHiveMind View Post
    Sorry, this game isn't based around solo pvp, it is about RvR. If you wish to play solo pvp, please find a different game, or suck it up princess.
    This sentence right here is an example of an arguement that is nothing short of ridiculous. Saying that the way you think the game should be played is the way it was designed to be played is just wrong. If someone were to come in here and say "None of this matters, Lotro is a pve game", how would you respond. I could be wrong here, but I really doubt the devs have ever come out saying "You should be grouped for Pvp, that's what we want you to do".

    In a game like Lotro, one that's very freedom based, players are attracted to the game for a variety of difference reasons (Lore, raiding, pvp, crafting), none of which are any better than the other. It's just amazing how some people will say stuff like this and feel completely justified in saying it, because that's how they play the game.

    @ OP: The way I see it, either the buffs should be scaled down, or (and this is the option I personally would prefer) make the NPC's more of a threat. With a healer by your side, or for plenty of classes even without one, you can breeze through keeps like nothings happening. But if NPC's damage was a bit higher, getting into a keep would be far more difficult, and require some skill, intead of it being soloable by a bunch of different classes. This, possibly combined with the OP and keep buffs being switched around, would make fights over OP's less frequent, since you don't need extra renown to be able to fight on an even playing field.

    Of course you could go the other way, and have no NPC's at all on the map, although that would probably only happen if a new pvp map was introduced, but I'd like to see a smaller pvp zone, without NPC's or any actual semblence of pve at all (Osgiliath possibly?). Of course, this could make ranking new creeps (and freeps to a lesser extent) even more difficult than it already is.... It seems like every time I come up with another solution, I'll add another problem... I'll just stop talking now
    "All of us have left someone behind. That is why we brave the darkness. We fight so they may see the dawn."

  20. #20
    I'd much rather have the old STAB/EC shuffles over "OP wars" and "finding waldo"

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amdul View Post
    I could be wrong here, but I really doubt the devs have ever come out saying "You should be grouped for Pvp, that's what we want you to do".

    They don't need to say it when every change they ever introduce is geared towards the group dynamic

    a few examples
    the delving, in general
    current keep buffs
    past keep buffs
    current delving boss buffs/changes
    outposts
    keeps in general
    etc

    I can literally not ever think of a time period where a change was introduced that I didn't think "well this is going to make solo-ing less like a kick in the underparts"
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amdul View Post
    This sentence right here is an example of an arguement that is nothing short of ridiculous. Saying that the way you think the game should be played is the way it was designed to be played is just wrong. If someone were to come in here and say "None of this matters, Lotro is a pve game", how would you respond. I could be wrong here, but I really doubt the devs have ever come out saying "You should be grouped for Pvp, that's what we want you to do".

    In a game like Lotro, one that's very freedom based, players are attracted to the game for a variety of difference reasons (Lore, raiding, pvp, crafting), none of which are any better than the other. It's just amazing how some people will say stuff like this and feel completely justified in saying it, because that's how they play the game.
    Then you're blind to reality. For the record, I love 1v1's. They are immensly fun and challenging as a creep, and I've been doing them for years. In no way should pvp changes that affect RvR or GvG be made just for the sake of 1v1's. As Isin said, every change they make is clearly slating the game towards RvR. I do believe there was a statement that it's how they envisioned PvP. Or perhaps I'm using other, concrete information to confirm that. Furthermore, it is something the majority of PvPers partake in (RvR), that alone cries for addressing of issues pertaining it.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by CreepHiveMind View Post
    Yeah, let's make ranking even easier!!!
    I assumed this was meant as sarcasm but then I read this:
    Quote Originally Posted by CreepHiveMind View Post
    Sorry, this game isn't based around solo pvp, it is about RvR. If you wish to play solo pvp, please find a different game, or suck it up princess.
    There are so many people(Especially the zerg lovers) who think they can define this game for others. The good thing about lotro pvp is that you can choose if you want to raid, play in small groups or solo most of the time. I do find it sad tho that more and more people are obsessed by ranking as fast and easy as possible telling the soloers they should join the autorank zerg or play some other game.
    At least you are honest.
    [center][IMG]http://i1057.photobucket.com/albums/t393/grapsn/1013265_608478239173945_469554244_n_zpsc9ae7993.jpg[/IMG] [/center]

    Hear me bark!

  24. #24

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by CreepHiveMind View Post
    Yeah, let's make ranking even easier!!!



    Actually I've found that it has resulted in fights around the map, fighting for OP control. Especially common places are just outside AE outpost and west of Hithlad outpost (and/or on the bridge). A nice change from the old STAB/EC shuffle.



    Sorry, this game isn't based around solo pvp, it is about RvR. If you wish to play solo pvp, please find a different game, or suck it up princess.
    1. Could remove the buffs altogether, I don't care. Make them as insignificant as the relics.

    2. If by fighting for OP control, you mean something like this, sure:
    -Group A loses to Group B ONCE
    -Group A actively avoids Group B until they take all 4 OPs, and station someone at each to call out any attempts to take back.
    -Massive mastery buffs -> a fun, even fight becomes completely one sided

    3. This applies to RvR as well, see #2.
    Smaller groups are affected a fair bit too, as the ratio between your damage and their heals (and vice versa) is heavily affected.
    It actually affects groups more than solo, because it a least gives me a patrol route when I'm solo, and heals aren't as big of an issue.

    "Suck it up princess" Way to flaunt your own insecurities, bud.
    [img]http://s22.postimg.org/ok6eiwpb5/sofar.jpg[/img]

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapez View Post
    I assumed this was meant as sarcasm but then I read this:
    It was

    Quote Originally Posted by grapez View Post
    There are so many people(Especially the zerg lovers) who think they can define this game for others. The good thing about lotro pvp is that you can choose if you want to raid, play in small groups or solo most of the time. I do find it sad tho that more and more people are obsessed by ranking as fast and easy as possible telling the soloers they should join the autorank zerg or play some other game.
    At least you are honest.
    I am not forcing anyone to play differently. I'm changes made for the sole purpose of 1v1's or small group fights that have a negative impact on RvR should not be implemented. I am not laying down that RvR is the way this game's pvp is meant to be played, Turbine did. So I'll go along with that. Personally, I hate the points gain from RvR. It's far too high and ranking is far too easy, thus why my spider is retired.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmazingX View Post
    "Suck it up princess" Way to flaunt your own insecurities, bud.
    Goes with my "Adopt adapt and improve" line that I tell freeps and creeps every update when the pendulum swings slightly.

 

 
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