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Thread: Warden Changes

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  1. #1

    Warden Changes

    I wasn't here for the early days of the warden, I first got one in mid to late RoI, and only got him to level 34 by the time RoR rolled around. I was wondering what exactly was changed and when, from before I started playing, as I hear it was much harder. All I could find out is that we didn't have potency, and something about needing to slot our masteries. Could anyone give me what the old traits and skills do, and what conservation stance was? I can't load the dev diary pages for some reason, so I can't look it up that way.

  2. #2
    considering you haven't gotten that high I will start with u6.

    Healing scaled up a bit.
    addition of assailment stance for ranged dps with min range.
    addition of tiered benefits for gambits of the same series in many cases.

    from there here is what ROR added
    2 gambits call to battle and resounding challenge both are eob's that hit anything with 10m of the target which can be 25m away

    now the big one u10
    agility is now main stat for offense. Might is still working but only till the grace period is over.
    skillful blocks is now combat positioning does the same thing but uses evade instead of block.

    btw the agi change means you will have nearly twice the mastery of most class in similar gear since both agi and might provide mastery atm. At least till you get over 65 and the gear becomes one or the other.
    Welleg - brandywine, Kelleg/Gelleg - Landroval
    WARNING: leveling a warden may cause you to neglect your other characters.

  3. #3
    So, that's all that's changed since mines of moria? How has it been "dumbed down" then? Also, I knew about assailment and the tiered buffs being added, but I didn't realize that was all there was to know, if I'm reading your post right.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by wannabe_falconer View Post
    So, that's all that's changed since mines of moria? How has it been "dumbed down" then? Also, I knew about assailment and the tiered buffs being added, but I didn't realize that was all there was to know, if I'm reading your post right.
    All the changes that came with U6 in RoI are too much to list, so i'll give my best memory of things that were different in the past as best i remember, which is poorly. Best bet is to look at all the old patch notes on lotro-wiki: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Patches

    U5 (ToO release during RoI) gave us the partial mitigation bonuses and increased self-heal potency, along with a few other band-aids i can't remember. U5 and the time before it was the height of "warden's can't tank, RoI broke us" mania.

    RoI release gave us battle prep and aggression, along with a relative weakening of a few threat skills (PB being the most significant of these). We also got the bleed removal mechanic. Our masteries were also tied behind the legendary trait Way of the Warden as I recall. Never surrender was also changed to the proc we now know, though originally buggy, and it gave us a 90% morale heal and no power i think.

    Everything before RoI is a bit hazy in my memory, main tidbits to note: All gambits were the same in every stance. I think recklessness was the same name, and it definitely had the bpe debuff and attack speed buff, possibly. Another was something like conservation, and had an ICPR bonus. Was the other called Determination still, and gave BPE? i can't remember...

    The Dark Before the Dawn!!!! This skill used to separate the men from the boys for solo wardens. This change came with the u5 changes i think, but whatever. The skill used to be morale gated, meaning you had to fall below half health to use it, and its power return was far more substantial. Power used to be a more significant issue for wardens (at least mine) and when soloing high morale targets, you had to carefully manage the 'morale surf' where you let up your buffs/heals a bit to fall below half morale, got a couple quick DbtDs in to refill power, and then rehealed to a safer level. The was the absolute most fun part of soloing. Managing your power and morale balance as we were massive power hogs.

    Never Surrender used to remove the now removed on-defeat dread effects, along with some debuffs that made the skill not worth it 90% of the time.

    Precise blow used to be the king of single target aggro, until RoI.

    Up until the U6 revamp, bleeds had a max duration of 16s.

    The spear capstone used to give +50% to WT damage, making it out hardest hitting skill by far (maybe a positional Wages of Fear was up there too). I remember at 65 cap my best dps rotation for most situations was WT>onslaught spam>WT>onslaught spam.

    Right at release of MoM, we didn't even have masteries, iirc. that was added in a patch not terribly long after though. I took a while to level my warden back then, so i don't remember the ins and outs of the first 6 months or so of MoM well.




    This is a woefully incomplete list, and along with forgetting plenty of important things, its completely out of order, but hopefully gives you a sense of some of the major things that have happened to the class over the years. I don't think any class can claim to have gone through the amount of changes wardens have, and tbh I have a hard time remembering what happened when before U6 back to MoM
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    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

  5. #5
    Thanks, this is great, I couldn't get the patch notes to work before, just timed out. It really has changed a lot, although I wouldn't see it as dumbing it down like some people say.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by wannabe_falconer View Post
    Thanks, this is great, I couldn't get the patch notes to work before, just timed out. It really has changed a lot, although I wouldn't see it as dumbing it down like some people say.
    I agree to an extent, it is no less complex a class today than it ever was before, and if anything is significantly more complex. A good dps rotation in recklessness has maybe 10-12 gambits in 30 seconds, with only 2 or 3 being repeated in that time. No other class comes close to this, and older warden dps rotations didn't either. Even Assailment rotations are more complex than just about any other class'. The two reasons people say the class has been dumbed down are tanking threat, and the lowering of the level of competence required to be an effective tank nowadays (imho of course). Back when PB was the aggro king, AoE threat took a while to lock down, and even single target threat required people holding back for a few seconds. DoW and Conviction meant you could lock down AoE threat eventually, but it was nothing like today where you can double-stack EoB in 2 seconds and a champ can run in with full-bore AoE. Similarly all the buffs a warden can put up now is more complex than it used to be, and being at the absolute peak of tanking efficiency is probably more difficult that it used to be, but now you can be an ok at best warden and still tank most content (and i mean before U10 made all our instances garbage). 'Back in the day' at 65 cap, the number of wardens I knew who I wouldn't let tank Grand Stairs (lvl 56 instance) was twice as long as those who were capable of it; the bar for being able to complete content was so much higher than today.

    I really, really like what Orion did with the class in U6 from a conceptual standpoint, with some relatively minor design choice quibbles aside. No class can match our flexibility and versatility, which is awesome. I also don't really have a problem with the class being buffed to the point where 'average' skilled players can tank most content: but the class has gone way too far in this direction, making mastery of the class less rewarding and not really even necessary, which is poor design choice.
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    [center]Let our actions speak for themselves. Jinjaah has been pouring over every post in the Bullroarer forum. Please keep in mind that any experiences with previous LOTRO teams are not reflective of the current team, give us a chance[/center]

 

 

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