The best way to win fights these days seems to just heal ball everything. It's frustrating. But whatever, I'm just gonna knock back a few beers and get some popcorn while this thread grows.
Ah dammit, I might as well say something. I for one think a huge problem freepside is that there are barely any Cappies/Champs in the moors. I often see whole raids of minis/rks/hunters which are all insanely squishy. Champ aoes into those heal balls of defilers and cappies for Bubbles/OBs would definitely help. If there were more of them on my server, pvp sure would be a lot nicer/fairer?/more enjoyable lol. Also, someone mentioned earlier a lot of freeps have a tendency to not want to die because they don't wipe/die a lot (if at all) given the easiness of today's end-game content - which is honestly probably true. I have no problem dying, or running in again (had this account since '07)- it sure would be nice if people followed and we actually all followed the same target and got a kill. Ofc, with like 5 rows of HoTs - that's pretty much impossible...
but anyway, back to beer and popcorn.
Like Nouri, I play on both freep and creepside. Something that also lends itself to an imbalance is that a green freep can go into the moors missing simply Audacity and a little know how. A green creep has only a small handful of skills and no ability to move around the map without running the gauntlet. Add to that the fact that established groups of creeps are reluctant to group with greenies because without the maps they cant keep up with the raid. This creates an atmosphere that isn't friendly to bringing new players to creepside. That said, a full raid of ranked creeps is extremely formidable.
To the original author's point the warden bleeds coupled with their durability is extremely unbalanced. I have seen half a dozen creeps unable to bring down a single warden. That is simply unacceptable.
A few postings back, I asserted that freeps are definitely OP while solo or in small groups. However, I also stated that creeps can be very effective in RvR fights, and that if creeps wanted to be competitive in solo or small group fights, they'd likely have to give up some things that make them so effective in larger groups. It sounds like the previous poster even agrees with me here, at least to some extent, when he states "Its one of the few things in the moors turbine has gotten right, creep toons compliment one another in a group setting."
I'd be all for creeps getting buffs and skills that would enable them to be more competitive in solo or small group fights. Also, give creeps all or most of their skills at r0 and make the March skill comparable to freep mounted movement capabilities. This would make it a lot easier for green creeps to get into raids and to survive. At the same time, I think that creeps would have to give up some of the things that make them so effective in larger fights. Maps are a good example. If a group of freeps tries to take a Keep, all it takes is one call out by a creep, and any creeps with a half-way decent assortment of maps can be there within a minute or two, and the map-in bombing starts. WL banners and in-combat AoE reses are other good examples. When I step into the area of a single terror banner, my DPS drops by over seventeen percent. Would anyone care to offer an example of another debuff in the game that can effect an entire raid as much as that, and that has as much coverage area? Start stacking those WL banners, and the freep raid starts fighting on its heels trying to get away from them unless they're willing to let their effectiveness be completely nerfed. As for WL in-combat AoE resing, yes, minis have a much shorter CD 'non-combat' AoE res if they can drop combat and get a 5+ second induction skill off with a fight going on around them. How about giving WLs and minis similar res capabilities?
Last edited by Nouri; Aug 25 2013 at 02:11 PM.
Last edited by Thorgrum; Aug 25 2013 at 02:20 PM.
How about a compromise on the WL nerf. Reduce the max rez targets and increase the CD of the skill but greatly increase the healing out-put to match that of a minstrel?
Here's a thought. I've never known the over the top OP god mode that some freeps walk around with because I've never had any interest in mindlessly grinding instances and dailies to get the best uber-gear. When I look at other peoples stats, the really over the top ones typical have 1000 higher will, agility, etc., than my toons. This isn't a complaint, it's just the way it is. I certainly see the OPness when I play against these people on my creeps. But if and when there is a balance shift, people like me will go back to being cr@p.
My point is, I would bet that the developers making decisions on balance don't grind the best gear either meaning they see the balance issues from a very skewed perspective when they go out into the wild to test things. I'm probably wrong, just one theory to consider.
Oh and BTW, none of this matters. I've said it a thousand times: tactics trump all. 99% of the freeps and creeps on our server never leave one-shots or back doors until they have better numbers than the other side anyway, so what difference does balancing the game make? Those people will still play like that if the devs make all of the classes exact mirrors of one another.
In regards, maps - the cd's should be hugely reduced to allow more freedom around the map for creeps seing as horses are practically instant and always available to freeps to move around on.
Warg long strides should be faster or at same speed as the horses so that we can keep pace too.
I've said it before and i'll say it again - I dont hold much hope for 'balance' ever happening in the Moors nor do I expect anything good to come out from the freep class changes when it arrives into the Moors, nor do I hold a cat-in-hells chance of creeps gettign anything of worthwile note in an update several long months after Helms Deep has been released either.
Same thread... different year! The dev's don't seem to focus as much on the creepside. A great example of the ongoing imbalance is what has happened to once a great and fun PvP server to play on, Elendilmir!
I now occasionally log on to see if the latest updates have changed anything, but what has happened for the most part.... PvP is DEAD! After logging on and off for the past week, there is the occasional 1v1, maybe there is a group of 3 or 4 freeps and several creeps trying to take them down, but one thing they do is go up to the flag room in a creep controlled keep and farm.
Anyway, I do hope something happens to balance it out and hopefully life will return to the Moors on Elendilmir.
I'll keep saying it, I dunno why cause ya'll won't like to hear yet, preferring to cry instead but..
We want balance, then you have to remove our numbers advantage. No more maps. No more in combat AOE rezzes.
Get rid of our numbers advantage, then we can be balanced up to on par. The nerfing we took with update 10 was due to the fact that in update 9 when we were more equally balanced, we still used our numbers advantage too. Not helping the fact was our numbers were inflated due to ezmode flipper trash, but I digress. Spread the creeps out and then yes by all means they need to be buffed up.
Last edited by ColorSpecs; Aug 26 2013 at 01:34 PM.
I did create a creep on a German server to see how it was... .WoW! It's very active throughout the day.
All I can say about other servers is stay away from Nimrodel
In suggesting the changes I did, I attempted to balance the suggested nerfs to maps, WL banners and reses with buffs to creeps that would make them more competitive when playing solo or in small groups. I think there would be a lot of creeps out there that would like to be able to solo, and stand a fair chance against a solo freep. A couple of other posters on this thread made excellent points….. “We want balance, then you have to remove our numbers advantage. No more maps. No more in combat AOE rezzes.” “Creeps need to better be able to handle freeps when they find them, not be better at getting more creeps to help when they find them.”
As for the WL banner thing, I don’t play a WL, but I checked with a couple of friends who do. I was told they do not stack, so I was mistaken…. It’s not the first time
As far as liking things easy and being afraid of dying, I know creeps that play that way and I know freeps that play that way. When I got to rank 8, I started messaging creeps on Ark that I thought were the very best players in their respective classes, and asking if they’d mind sparring. I got my butt kicked a zillion times, but I figured that if I wanted to be able to compete with the best, zerging greenies was not the way to go about it. I don’t mind dying at all, it’s part of what makes the game challenging and interesting. It happens quite a lot actually. I solo most of the time, and get nailed by creep groups quite regularly. Win or lose, it’s still a game I love.
A good creep will beat an average creep. An unskilled P2W Reaver can, also. A good freep will obliterate an average creep. But since not all players are good, by far, most fights result in a pretty equal match. This only is for r8+, though. Can't comment on raids.
if creep healing (defiler/wl) were as high as captains/minstrels/rk the already natural stacking of 2+ healers per group on creeps side would get insanely OP.
I would rather see less emphasis on stacking heals than making sure other forms of survivability is in check. I also hate times in raids when both raids seem to have stacked heals and dps well, that there in some derpy time where no one can out dps the crazy heals going around... and thats without a WL buff to healing.
there is something naturally wrong with WL rez. it's kinda setting up freeps to almost always earn more renown than creeps can earn infarmy.
I rather like the form of a healer who hangs in the back. squishy, overhealing (bubbles I guess on lotro) healers who people run back to for a top up. also, in-combat rezzes are good for PvP. something warhammer did really well was attacking a keep, not just healing the people in front, but rezzing those who didn't get heals to play smarter in there next life without a huge run back to the action. it lets fights go on longer without having no one dieing and almost being at a stale mate. it puts healers in a awkward moment too, am I safe to heal, or rez? if your just standing there rezzing, the dps on the other side will no doubt be killing people quicker than you can bring them up. if your only healing, you'll eventually run out of people.
seems like lotro really isn't working other survival mechanisms too. there are self healing classes, running away classs and lesser ones that arn't quite working. +50% avoidence for example, finesse really broken that. and with 1/2 the creep/freep classes able to do tactical, surely there should be people who should be able to do +50% resistence? makes sense no? other things like mitigating just to melee, ranged or tactical or even just spacific damage types. it's nice to see more reflect lately on spider mainly, but why not heal on hit like some mobs in moria had? or buff on hit, or some more serious debuff turtle classes. I also hate how stuns have ALWAYS been tied next to stuns, there not the same, you can still do skills and avoidence rooted, so why are they tied together so much? and again, why is there no overhealing in the game? ok hots are kinda but why not let defiler pop a 1.4k bubble every 15s that lasts 1min? something more pre-emtive healing and over-heal people to you can make sure "that guys will be target first, I best keep him up!"
there are other forms too they seem to have ignored. maybe we'll see them better with class revamps
Last edited by bohbashum; Aug 28 2013 at 02:45 AM.
Unless creeps are built the exact same way as freeps and have the exact same population, there will never be true balance.
infact... I'll explain it really badly.
the big thing about this is there needs to be a tactics/class to beat everything. currently, many classes (we all know who they are) are just so good and need to be zerged to beat. and thats just unfair -_-
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