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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    608

    Mass Relic Refining PLEASE!!!/beg

    I was cleaning up an alt's old LI's from when cap was 65. I deconned a bunch for shards since I only had about 4500 across my account. I started thinking of ways to increase this and I checked out what I could get for Rusted Dwarf Tools and Khuzdul Tablets.

    Turns out you can get fused bronze relics for them! And for Khuzdul Tablets you actually get 2. When opened, these give multiple T1 relics. Suddenly I found I had over 200 fused bronze relics which gave over 3,000 T1 relics! I want to Refine all of them to get 3,000 shards. (Some people suggested combining up to a T9 relic, but according to the wiki, ( http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Relics#Refining ) 1 T9 relic takes 19,000 T1 relics and when refined only gives 1,500 shards.)

    I just about wore out my mouse button tonight combining and refining a majority of my T1 relics. But this is only 1 of 5 toons with lots of Rusted Dwarf Tools and Khuzdul Tablets... I shudder at the thought of Refining all those T1's one at a time.

    PLEASE add an option in the Relic Mater panel that allows one to REFINE (not Combine) multiple relics at once.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    900
    Hi

    combine them first. Every combine you Do has a chans of critting. when you crit you get more relics AND shards as bonus. You make way more shards this way than 3000

    so we should really rather beg for a mass-combine

    Regards
    /T

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    608
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias_R View Post
    Hi

    combine them first. Every combine you Do has a chans of critting. when you crit you get more relics AND shards as bonus. You make way more shards this way than 3000
    /T
    Sadly, I don't think the math bears this out. Consider the following chart from Lotro Wiki: (Sorry the Columns don't line up)
    Tier (Number of previous Tier Relics needed) (Total number of Tier 1 Relics needed) (Cost to forge) (Shards to forge)
    1 N/A N/A 2 Silver 1
    2 5 5 5 Silver 3
    3 4 20 13 Silver 9
    4 4 80 32 Silver 27
    5 3 240 82 Silver 54
    6 3 720 205 Silver 108
    7 3 2,160 410 Silver 216
    8 3 6,480 820 Silver 432
    9 3 19,440 N/A N/A

    Refining

    Relics can be refined into shards which are used for melding or instead of silver to perform legendary services. There's a small chance to receive Heritage Runes upon refining. Speak to a Relic-master to refine.
    Tier Shards
    1 1
    2 2
    3 9
    4 32
    5 79
    6 192
    7 464
    8 696
    9 1536

    As you can see, it takes 19,000+ T1 shards to combine to a T9 relic. If you Refine a T9 relic you get 1,500+ shards. If you refined all those T1 relics into shards, you would (obviously) get 19,000+ shards. As good as crits are, and they are nice, I cannot imagine that they happen at a rate sufficient to make up the over 1000% difference. (Yes, 1000% - 19,000 shards is over 10 times 1,500 shards and 10x is 1000%.) I know that as you crit higher tier relics it speeds things up, but you have significantly fewer combinations at higher tiers (since you have significantly fewer relics).

    Since we don't know the % chance of critting on a relic combination and we don't know what the multiplier is for those crits (ie. how many extra relics you get) we cannot calculate the expected result of combining all the way. However, given that critting is less than 50% of the time, I'd be surprised to see that it can make up such a loss as seen in combining.

  4. #4
    i would gladly give up on all critical chances to have a full combine of all relics possible on a tier in one shot.
    Having to spend literally hours just clicking through the tiers has made me not combine at all. Since im only looking for high tiers and relics for my mounted steed.

    Tier 1 i currently have i think 400-500 on each relic. I think it's 2 auto combines = -1 relic on all relics. So ~500 relics of each will equal 1K auto combine clicks. Or a number close to that.

    And that is just to go from tier 1 -> tier 2

    granted the other tiers you wont be combining as much with much less relics, but after a hour or so you get tired out.


    If having them all combine in one shot is too much then having a little more faster way would be better than what we have to do now.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by BlancoFallowhide View Post
    Sadly, I don't think the math bears this out. Consider the following chart from Lotro Wiki: (Sorry the Columns don't line up)
    Tier (Number of previous Tier Relics needed) (Total number of Tier 1 Relics needed) (Cost to forge) (Shards to forge)
    1 N/A N/A 2 Silver 1
    2 5 5 5 Silver 3
    3 4 20 13 Silver 9
    4 4 80 32 Silver 27
    5 3 240 82 Silver 54
    6 3 720 205 Silver 108
    7 3 2,160 410 Silver 216
    8 3 6,480 820 Silver 432
    9 3 19,440 N/A N/A

    Refining

    Relics can be refined into shards which are used for melding or instead of silver to perform legendary services. There's a small chance to receive Heritage Runes upon refining. Speak to a Relic-master to refine.
    Tier Shards
    1 1
    2 2
    3 9
    4 32
    5 79
    6 192
    7 464
    8 696
    9 1536

    As you can see, it takes 19,000+ T1 shards to combine to a T9 relic. If you Refine a T9 relic you get 1,500+ shards. If you refined all those T1 relics into shards, you would (obviously) get 19,000+ shards. As good as crits are, and they are nice, I cannot imagine that they happen at a rate sufficient to make up the over 1000% difference. (Yes, 1000% - 19,000 shards is over 10 times 1,500 shards and 10x is 1000%.) I know that as you crit higher tier relics it speeds things up, but you have significantly fewer combinations at higher tiers (since you have significantly fewer relics).

    Since we don't know the % chance of critting on a relic combination and we don't know what the multiplier is for those crits (ie. how many extra relics you get) we cannot calculate the expected result of combining all the way. However, given that critting is less than 50% of the time, I'd be surprised to see that it can make up such a loss as seen in combining.

    The problem with this calculation is that, when you combine relics at tier 1, you will usually get 2-3 tier 2 relics, even without critical combination, and like wise 1-3 tier 3 relics , and 1-2 tier 4/5 relics... beyond tier 5 you usually only get extra relics only on a critical combine. Which is why the math says that the best time to shard your relics is to combine them until tier 5/6.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-shards-easily

    Having said that... i would reallly love it if turbine give a refine all/many button. I have close to 2000 T5s and 3000+ T6 relics on me, and it's a pain to convert them into shards each time i need shards.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by BlancoFallowhide View Post
    Sadly, I don't think the math bears this out. [...]
    As you can see, it takes 19,000+ T1 shards to combine to a T9 relic. If you Refine a T9 relic you get 1,500+ shards. If you refined all those T1 relics into shards, you would (obviously) get 19,000+ shards. As good as crits are, and they are nice, I cannot imagine that they happen at a rate sufficient to make up the over 1000% difference.
    That's the thing with Math. You have to get the numbers right and you also need to consider relevant side effects.
    As the link jaecynt provided illustrates, your calculation considers the direct effects only and your imagination betrays you.

    Scroll down on that page a bit and you will find that ~15.000 shards yielded not one but SEVEN T9 relics PLUS a total of 8,521 Shards from crits along the way.

    HTH,
    SNy

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    608
    Quote Originally Posted by jaecynt View Post
    The problem with this calculation is that, when you combine relics at tier 1, you will usually get 2-3 tier 2 relics, even without critical combination, and like wise 1-3 tier 3 relics , and 1-2 tier 4/5 relics... beyond tier 5 you usually only get extra relics only on a critical combine. Which is why the math says that the best time to shard your relics is to combine them until tier 5/6.

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...-shards-easily

    Having said that... i would reallly love it if turbine give a refine all/many button. I have close to 2000 T5s and 3000+ T6 relics on me, and it's a pain to convert them into shards each time i need shards.
    That thread was very helpful! Thanks. I did not know about/notice how often you get 2 relics on a combine. That fills things out quickly compared to the diminishing returns of combining and refining.

    Still, either way, wtb combine all/refine all button.

  8. #8

    Combine refine NOW!

    YEs, we really need this. I have 3000 relics to refine and cant even use autoclicker since u need to (move mouse) chose the relich for each refine :-/

 

 

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