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  1. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    People often assume their own use model is the "norm", and that's reinforced when they hang out with like-minded people. I'm no different.

    However, I have evidence that makes me more likely to be correct: Turbine kept their forums and Lotteries, while nuking MyLOTRO and Lorebook. They know precisely what the percentage of players using each are, and deemed the character data disposable (from a community site perspective, not a game perspective ). Yes, that probably has something to do with the relative cost of maintaining it, but for-profit companies don't generally axe their more popular features
    A (faster ) forum and A lottery. Features?

    A company, after 6 years, decreases the features of his web-site to the nearly minimum, what does that mean?
    What kind of company makes such cost-cutting?

    Q.E.D.
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  2. #77
    I'm alright with the lorebook being gone as usually I used the wiki instead. I do agree though that not having the character info to be shared outside the game is kind of a downer. We also can't note anymore the accomplishments our characters or friends did recently. Those are the two features that I miss and could hope they bring back. Otherwise, the new site/forums are pretty nice.

  3. #78
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    /signed !!

    Worst thing / decision ever made by Turbine was to deactivate these services.

  4. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty View Post
    ...The popular features is what allows the product to be viable.
    And the stylish/outstanding features are what makes a product interesting and exceptional. Compare the sales of asian car manufacturers to the number of asian cars at classic motor shows. The lowest common denominator may be working financially, but will inevitably be boring.

    Anyway, the features of the old website are going nowhere. Leading up to the forum revamp and since, Sapience has made it pretty clear between the lines (planned or unwittingly) that management wished for a bare-minimum forum service. One can expect that, aside from tweaks and bugfixes here and there, noone is ever going to touch the workings of this forum again until LotrO marches into the twilight.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrandCru View Post
    A (faster ) forum and A lottery. Features?

    A company, after 6 years, decreases the features of his web-site to the nearly minimum, what does that mean?
    What kind of company makes such cost-cutting?

    Q.E.D.
    Features that were expensive to maintain, lightly used, and caused massive amounts of complaints about the speed of the website.

    What kind of company cuts those features? A smart one. Q.E.D.

    I somehow suspect you were going for an answer more along the lines of a dying company, but then I'd counter with: A Company recently announced a major addon pack for their flagship product, redecorated their headquarters lobby with the theme of their flagship product, redesigned and re-deployed the website for their flagship product, is doing a major class overhaul of their flagship product, created a player council to help drive the design of their flagship product, and took the option to extend the IP rights to make their flagship product. What kind of company makes such a large investment in their flagship product?

    Q.E.D. Indeed.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Cornwall, UK
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    1,383
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkyy View Post
    There's no way you or Sapience can tell me Pvmp doesn't bring them in the most profit.. I highly doubt they add in all the store bought items in to deciding whether or not they think Pvmp is making them a profit. As in store trackers, pots, tomes, virtues, brands, etc. etc. Also the biggest one.. Transfers. 25$ a toon to transfer and nine times out of ten it's going to be for Pvmp.

    Even Pve is the back bone of Pvmp.. people Pve to get gear for Pvmp. What's the point of paying for Vip without Pvmp? 500tp and a hobbit box that usually has #### in it? I canceled my sub and bought my WL.. don't see a point of paying with the removal of leader boards, daily stats, and alt finder.

    Like look at the forums http://www.completevb.com/product/15 35 dollars.. and this Reximus idiot wants to tell us this game is in good shape?

    They even pay someone to troll there customers. All I've seen Sapience do is answer in sarcastic and useless responses.

    Sapience will rather delete my post or say I'm completely wrong.. either way he won't and can't prove it.
    He can delete as much as he likes, loads of us have seen it and I've linked it to loads of people already.

  7. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkyy View Post

    Like look at the forums http://www.completevb.com/product/15 35 dollars
    Interesting.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    May 2013
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    São Paulo, Brazil
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    Unhappy Give us an User Control Panel and let lorebook rest in peace.

    I might be a little too late for the topic since the discussion already took a proportion that makes me unable to read the "whole" content of it. So if someone pointed this out already on the previous pages, sorry.

    I really think that the my.lotro service was really the major loss. Lorebook wasn't that usefull, since not only lotro wiki is much more used by the players, also there are THOUSANDS of websites with lore information, items, quests, walkthroughs, cosmetics tips etc.

    I can't really complain about the forums and the website, since I've noticed a huge difference on loading the pages. The main issue I have with the new forums is that the color is really boring. Makes me want to sleep. I rather browse a forum with light backgrounds with colors such as white or light blue with traditional black letters. Some might think light colors are too strong, but they make it much more easy to read in my opinion. However, that's up to the designers and I bet they had their reasons to keep a darker forum.

    Now onto my.lotro. My lotro was useful in MANY ways. Specially for kinship leaders. Being able to connect with guild launch effectively and monitor your kinship stats outside the game would make the life of the kinships easier. I don't really see how my.lotro was a "heavy" service to the servers. Honestly, I come from a SA-MP roleplaying community (you might argue that we're talking about smaller communities, however most of sa-mp RP servers have a single server, while turbine probably has much more space for processing and storing data), and it is common on that RPing communities to have an User Control Panel connected to the server (IRC channel aswell to monitor item log and death logs), to manage your character spawing points, check stats, check your kick/warning/ban history, monitor your items AND most importantly, for leaders of factions that are sponsored by the server (aka Official factions), a panel to see your roster, modifiy it, promote, demote, kick etc. And I'm talking about 10.000 of unique accounts in a server that supports 500 players and usually have around 300-400 online.

    What I'm trying to say is, Turbine could solve the problems by creating an User Control Panel. I'm not an expert in the subject, I'm actually a complete outsider of web design and stuff, but I can't see how showing the data that is being processed 24/7 in game can be that heavy to processing data. The data is there, right now, as we write here, the data is safe and avaible for acess in game at anytime. All that Turbine needs is to show that data out of game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is pretty much an /inspect command on the browser. Having /inspect doesn't make the server slow.

    I've read a few threads in the past with complaints about my.lotro regarding "privacy issues". People claiming that they didn't want their "data" to be avaible for everyone (which is non-sense since in game data is not yours, it is Turbine property, if you forgot you've agreed to their EULA, and it doesn't displays any real life information, unless you want to), and that can be solved with making the data only avaible for registered players and by extending the "anonymous" function.

    Well, I'm not sure if I'm in the right topic or if I should post this in the suggestion section. The point is, my.lotro can be brought back with simple UCP features.

  9. #84
    /signed

    I'm pleased that the (new) site loades faster then the (terrible loading-times) of the old one,
    BUT I'm not amused about the cut off the Lorebook AND the Character Informations !

    I'm sad that Turbine makes such an decision, without taking an ear to it's own Community!
    (did they want that, or not? - did they need that? - are those sites used often?)

    I really NEED for example the chance to look, who is an alt/twink of somebody else,
    or to take if an old friend still playing (activity log) or gone away for ever,
    and some of the other nice features that Turbine is cutting away.

    Please bring them back, in wich case ever (maybe with lesser load of your servers,
    but i'm be interested in the CONTENT of that informations, that they brought with!)

  10. #85
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    355
    This should petition should be broken up into it's 3 components.

    1. The lore book got removed with no replacement

    --- NOT signed. Easily found elsewhere. Requires constant resources on Turbines part.

    2. Links to display character information out of game do not work anymore.

    --- NOT signed. This requires developing and maintaining the web interface--evidently Turbine doesn't want/have the resources to do that--I won't argue with them. A web interface takes time to build, and must constantly address issues with changes to the game and more importantly updates to browsers. It's a resource hog for Turbine. Let other people do it by implementing the next item: #3

    3. No API or other way to keep up with game items and their properties seems available to players

    --- /SIGNED /SIGNED /SIGNED This. Providing, behind the scenes, a method for OTHER sites to do #2 as well as locate player alts and other things that require access to a current data base is the huge loss that only Turbine can fix. If they would put the one time (mostly) effort into fixing that, and offering the API to the public, it should require little maintenance in the future (it's not a gui--just an automatic database dump and access hook to the dumped data). Maybe a tweak here and there with updates, but nothing like maintaining a graphic interface that works on all systems and breaks on every new browser that comes out. PLEASE offer this again. If you do, I would wager within 2 months there would 2 or 3 sites that offer every functionality the old my.lotro forums had, and then some. This is all that's needed to fix 99% of the loss functionality by letting fan sites take up the banner.
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  11. #86
    I can see that maintaining and managing the lorebook could be to much effort for Turbine and that a fast and reliable forum has number 1 priority. On the other hand, I assume it would be very well in the interest for a company to allow their player base some form of immersion into the game without starting up the client and fully login into the game itself. A working API to provide access to game data would be a good compromise. This should not be too much work. All the information is already generated and available in the game and its data bases.
    I was using the character web interface and LotroHerald a lot, although many items didn't show up anymore.

    I do not know if LUA-plugins could partially fill in and dump character data into a file, for example. This file could then be read by another 'out-of-game' program which has a nice user interface. Do plugins have access to the items a character has currently equipped? The inventory plugins I have running have only access to the bags, vaults, and the shared storage.

    So, I am still hoping for some kind of API.

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    12,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Try-2-4-Get View Post
    I'm sad that Turbine makes such an decision, without taking an ear to it's own Community!
    (did they want that, or not? - did they need that? - are those sites used often?)
    Actually, they posted a stickied thread on it 4+ months before it went into effect, and there just weren't all that many replies to it. Not really. They also know exactly how often those sites were used, and in what volume. No need to be told.

    I work on a product in which I just ripped out a fair-sized feature. Why? Because it was causing serious problems for some customers (driving up our customer service costs), and it wasn't used by a very high percentage. Fixing it would have cost far more than it was worth, so the decision was made to remove it. I fully expect to hear some complaints for that decision, but we cannot let the needs of a few drive what we invest in - not unless those few are willing to pony up rather large amounts of cash. We're not a government, which can attempt to do it all and just tax people more to pay for it. We have to make careful decisions about what gets development, and what doesn't.

    Khafar

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1

    I'd Volunteer To Help Keep the Character Info Going

    I miss the character info sections. It was a great Kinship management tool and just helpful all around. I'm a professional developer and, if the database is updated anyway, I'd be happy to take a look at volunteering my skills to keep it going. Obviously the character info has to be stored and updated somewhere.

  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    If out-of-game access to character data were restored by some means or other, then either it should only be possible to view your own characters, or their should be an easily accessible means to turn off access by others.
    This. Turbine may own the information as others keep pointing out, but that does not mean they should make it accessible to any stranger whether the player wills it or no. Friends of mine have been stalked across characters by creepers who have been able to use character data to find their alts. Alt-finder websites = guilty. Turbine may have the data, but it is no other player's business except the player to whom it originates from, unless they decide otherwise.

  15. #90
    "We want"?? no, maybe YOU want.

    I, for one, prefer the new, fast, forum to the old buggy, slow one. Nor do I need the lorebook--wiki is much better. Never used the char. stuff anyway.

    I like the new format.

  16. #91
    i think if those features like the lorebook and others worked as they were intended to then they would have been used more often. The lorebook had missing information that i wanted to find out and/or bad links, so i often times went to the lotro wiki first, then the lorebook if the wiki wasn't enough. I would have gladly went to the lorebook for everything if it worked without problems.
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  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berelor View Post
    I do not know if LUA-plugins could partially fill in and dump character data into a file, for example. This file could then be read by another 'out-of-game' program which has a nice user interface. Do plugins have access to the items a character has currently equipped? The inventory plugins I have running have only access to the bags, vaults, and the shared storage.

    So, I am still hoping for some kind of API.
    This does actually makes a lot of sense. Plugins have access to Items, there is a plugin called "unequip" or something, that moves all your equiped weapons to the inventory, provided you have space on the bag for it. It's most used for Roleplay to avoid entering the Inn with a 5 yards Halberd on your back.

    Maybe we should contact the plugins scripters to ask about the possibility of such a plugin.

  18. #93
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    Oct 2010
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    Hamilton, NY
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    3,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Braescher View Post
    This does actually makes a lot of sense. Plugins have access to Items, there is a plugin called "unequip" or something, that moves all your equiped weapons to the inventory, provided you have space on the bag for it. It's most used for Roleplay to avoid entering the Inn with a 5 yards Halberd on your back.

    Maybe we should contact the plugins scripters to ask about the possibility of such a plugin.
    The plugin simply uses the in-game macro ability to unequip an item in a specific slot. I'm not sure it can tell what the item is, because it doesn't actually look at the item, just the slot.
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  19. #94
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    May 2013
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    The plugin simply uses the in-game macro ability to unequip an item in a specific slot. I'm not sure it can tell what the item is, because it doesn't actually look at the item, just the slot.
    As far as I know (and I don't know much about plugins, I only use them) TonicBars reads your class and skills that you acquired. When I installed TonicBars it automatically created a "profile" of skill bars for Heralds, Tactics, enemy defeat response skills, morale and power potions, melee etc for my captain. Same for my minstrel. It created separated bars for my anthems, codas, stances and etc.

    There are plugins that goes beyond macro reading. I think we should bring this discussion to lotrointerface.com.

  20. #95
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    1,171
    For those wondering about a Lua solution to this, there are a couple of issues. First and foremost is that the GetEquipment() method has a bug which crashes the client when a plugin which calls GetEquipment is loaded and unloaded multiple times such as when switching between characters (it usually takes 8-10 load/unloads but can crash in as little as 2 depending on various factors). In addition, even if the client crash gets fixed, there is very limited information available to Lua for items, basically just the name and icon information. There are no stats available so it would be nearly meaningless to display the available information in a third party application outside the game.

    Basically, at this time, Lua can not offer a suitable means of replacing the lost functionality.

  21. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Garan View Post
    For those wondering about a Lua solution to this, there are a couple of issues. First and foremost is that the GetEquipment() method has a bug which crashes the client when a plugin which calls GetEquipment is loaded and unloaded multiple times such as when switching between characters (it usually takes 8-10 load/unloads but can crash in as little as 2 depending on various factors). In addition, even if the client crash gets fixed, there is very limited information available to Lua for items, basically just the name and icon information. There are no stats available so it would be nearly meaningless to display the available information in a third party application outside the game.

    Basically, at this time, Lua can not offer a suitable means of replacing the lost functionality.

    Many thanks for the explanation. Maybe, we can still hope for an improved API for Lua scripts.

    Or aim for screenshots and image processing. ;-)

  22. #97
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    May 2013
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    Srange enough, lotroarmory seems to be up-to-date.

  23. #98
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    Mar 2007
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    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by Braescher View Post
    Srange enough, lotroarmory seems to be up-to-date.
    Yep. data.lotro.com is still limping along but it still has the same synch issues with certain characters (such as many ex-codemaster characters) and most newer (post RoI) items. According to Sapience this was kept running for the sake of LotROHerald but eventually even the updates that are occurring now will likely be discontinued. Additionally, I believe Turbine is no longer issuing developer keys for data.lotro.com so it is unlikely that you will see much in the way of new applications or even maintenance on existing applications which use data.lotro.com for data.

  24. #99
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    Jun 2011
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    Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reximus View Post
    Features that were expensive to maintain, lightly used, and caused massive amounts of complaints about the speed of the website.

    What kind of company cuts those features? A smart one. Q.E.D.

    I somehow suspect you were going for an answer more along the lines of a dying company, but then I'd counter with: A Company recently announced a major addon pack for their flagship product, redecorated their headquarters lobby with the theme of their flagship product, redesigned and re-deployed the website for their flagship product, is doing a major class overhaul of their flagship product, created a player council to help drive the design of their flagship product, and took the option to extend the IP rights to make their flagship product. What kind of company makes such a large investment in their flagship product?

    Q.E.D. Indeed.
    You just try to show as that you are able to understand....but you're wrong.
    I never own a Toyota and I will never own one as long the dealer in my town sale his cars in a backyard.
    That means, the actally "Revamp" looks very cheep like a beginners fun site.

    This game has no Item Database, no Lorebook anymore, no statistics and all the other features which other games such Aion, SWTOR and many more has.
    This game has nothing and now this cheep revamp with cuted vBulletin to vBulletin Lite or Trial.

    Someone who may interested on Lotro, visit this site just once, and the next click is back to Google.

    Just an example that you don't need to cut functions to have a fast site.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    13

    Smile /signed

    i agree with op 100%

    We really need some way to view our character data outside of the game, whether it be viewing the equipment, stats, crafting levels, deed completion history, or simply the total money we have on any of our character. Doing this in-game simply takes a lot of time and as the op pointed out its really hard to keep track of these attribute on multiple toons at once..

    I for one have multiple toons on multiple servers, which means I now need to completely exit the game and restart it to get to my alts on other worlds which is just ridiculous.

    Being a software developer myself I can understand the difficulty that the team faces with keeping up with broken forms (the old ones ie) and the character data gathering service but I would say making an API and giving it to other developers is a good alternative (this was there before as well when other websites simply get the data out of my.lotro and data.lotro) so they can make there own webapps and save us the impossible hassle.

    I hope they take it into consideration

 

 
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