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  1. #51
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    LOREBOOK!!!

    Honestly, the more they update the game the less I have access to. If they don't bring back the LoreBook that's going to be a serious issue with me. Every MMO out there worth a Hobbit plop has some equivalent. I accessed it constantly, it was a VERY important resource to me. Honestly it cripples the game for me.

    OT but related, don't care for the new forum look. It looks like every other forum on the Internet for the last 10 years. The main reason I liked the old forums is because it did NOT look like every other Internet forum over the last 10 years.

    LOREBOOK!!!
    When the Rebels become the Tyrants, Revolution takes on a New Meaning.

  2. #52

    I agree with this petition

    I agree with Singbard.

    Please bring removed feature back.

    Thanks
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000038c220/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  3. #53
    Above three posts ---- couldn't agree more!!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/13213000000048472/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  4. #54
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    Thanks for all your replies.
    I'd like to clarify this was not intended as a poll but as a feature request / suggestion, as some posters correctly stated above.
    Also, please excuse if my use of 'want' and 'need' seems slightly off to a native speaker, I try my best and what I meant is 'would like to have'.

    To tally up things a bit, I will allow myself some preliminary conclusions (I carefully read through every reply here) and will add a comment and a question below.


    • The lore book is a feature that some but not all people will miss. There are wiki pages around that already serve as a valid source of information, and albeit being inferior in amount of content and complexity, nothing speaks against the possibility that with the community's help, we could work and contribute to these wikis to make them (or a designated as e.g. LOTROWiki) a worthy successor of the lore book.
    • Access to character data out of game seems to be very important to most of the players. It is unclear how this should be done at the moment, as the old links stopped to work.


    Quote Originally Posted by Erlindur View Post
    Don't you think that most of those problems would be solved if we had a simple way to export our characters, all their gear and trait setup in an easy to use text file?
    I think most people would enjoy some way to access their character data out of game. Having it displayed in a web browser like before worked well for me, and I think most people don't care much how it is done. Having an API call delivering and XML file would be very nice, and would allow other sites to build up queries and nice ways to display it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    (...) Actually, the API is still available on an "as is" basis, for now... it's just badly out of date, and likely to stay that way. The rest of it was announced back in April, and put into a Stickied thread. (...)
    This intrigues me, I fail to find documentation of how to do it, and what functions are available. Then again, my time is limited and I can not read as much as I would like.
    If someone could point us to the correct direction, that would be very helpful.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by mbfabulian View Post
    Why do they put a slick, glossy coat on things, remove the features you like and call it new and improved?
    Because now you can load threads and navigate pages in seconds, rather than minutes (seriously....it wasn't uncommon for me to select a thread, see it start loading, go out and have a cigarette, and come back in as it was finally loading).

    We can now also stay logged in (for the most part) between starting a post and finishing a post.

    It's improved.
    The forums are not an accurate representation of the thoughts and feelings of the whole player base. Those who like a particular feature are in the game enjoying that feature. Those who don't like it log out to mention it on the forums. It is a relevant but biased source of feedback, and any claims of community desire should take this fact into account.

  6. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Nirthrandir View Post
    I couldn't agree more. Surely LOTRO wants members to get an "official" based guide to the game rather than having to go to sources outside the game for information and advice? This should be part of the Gaming experience not something to be dealt with by on- line forums and "unofficial" websites.

    ...except I can't, for the life of me, think of a single MMO that's done this. Even WoW, with Blizzard's gods-issued license to print money, was/is primarily sourced by WoWWiki, Wowhead, Elitist Jerks, and a host of individual class sites (shadowpriest and maintankadin come to mind). Blizzard straight-up admitted on their own forums, several times, that they couldn't possibly accomplish the same task with the diligence, speed, and thoroughness that these sites could, and were therefore never really all that fussed to come up with them.

    Hell, look at the wealth of information CSTM managed to acquire. Does anybody have any realistic belief that Turbine could have managed better, and kept it updated as frequently?
    The forums are not an accurate representation of the thoughts and feelings of the whole player base. Those who like a particular feature are in the game enjoying that feature. Those who don't like it log out to mention it on the forums. It is a relevant but biased source of feedback, and any claims of community desire should take this fact into account.

  7. #57
    Join Date
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    I don't think the thread starter has the authority or knowledge of what "WE" want. Therefore, the thread title is very misleading.

    I most certainly do not care about those things. I never used them, and for me if I want to check my characters I do so when logged into the game.

    Please do not make threads that pretend to speak for me, thanks.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singbard View Post
    The lore book is a feature that some but not all people will miss. There are wiki pages around that already serve as a valid source of information, and albeit being inferior in amount of content and complexity, nothing speaks against the possibility that with the community's help, we could work and contribute to these wikis to make them (or a designated as e.g. LOTROWiki) a worthy successor of the lore book.
    Quite frankly there were numerous things about actual game content the Lorebook only covered in brief, that other wikis cover in far greater detail. LOTRO Wiki, for instance, actually attempts to include the full transcript of quest dialogue in a quest's page, which is handy for revisiting those intermediary sections that don't show up in the quest log. It does tend to focus on game content rather than general official lore, and that could be greatly expanded, but to be fair there's tons of resources for the LOTR lore.

    Either way, the most productive thing to do is pick a wiki and start building.

    "Life is 10% what you make it, and 90% how you take it." - Irving Berlin
    MirkwoodIsengardLOTRO-Wiki

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Singbard View Post
    The lore book is a feature that some but not all people will miss. There are wiki pages around that already serve as a valid source of information, and albeit being inferior in amount of content and complexity, nothing speaks against the possibility that with the community's help, we could work and contribute to these wikis to make them (or a designated as e.g. LOTROWiki) a worthy successor of the lore book.
    I have to disagree with your summation about LOTROwiki being inferior to the lorebook. IMO I've found the wiki superior to the Lorebook (although you have to window out of the game to access it, whereas the Lorebook used to be accessable in-game).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jadzi View Post
    Quite frankly there were numerous things about actual game content the Lorebook only covered in brief, that other wikis cover in far greater detail. LOTRO Wiki, for instance, actually attempts to include the full transcript of quest dialogue in a quest's page, which is handy for revisiting those intermediary sections that don't show up in the quest log. It does tend to focus on game content rather than general official lore, and that could be greatly expanded, but to be fair there's tons of resources for the LOTR lore.
    Maybe this is why I viewed LOTROwiki as superior - I was only interested in game content, which the wiki does/did in more detail than the Lorebook. There are other sources I've gone to find details on LOTR lore.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singbard View Post
    Access to character data out of game seems to be very important to most of the players.
    Highly doubtful, as it's common for 10% or less of players in MMOs to even bother reading its forums (let alone posting or using other features). Also, I've obviously known about the character sheets since it arrived, but rarely used it - partly because I just look in-game when I want, and partly because it's routinely out of date. I suspect I'm not uncommon either.

    This intrigues me, I fail to find documentation of how to do it, and what functions are available.
    Type "data.lotro.com" in your browser, and you'll be able to see the general format their web service uses. I've never used it myself, but it looks like you have to register with Turbine to get this data, and they'll provide a key you can use. No idea if they'll open it up to anyone new at this point... Sapience said it would likely be shut off at some point.

    Khafar

  11. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by enginekid88 View Post
    I don't think the thread starter has the authority or knowledge of what "WE" want. Therefore, the thread title is very misleading.

    .
    Must be the Royal "We". In which case you could be in big trouble.
    [IMG]http://i1256.photobucket.com/albums/ii500/supermaco/2800703.png[/IMG]

  12. #62
    Agreed on the API issue - Guild Launch and Alt Finder are two very useful (and much used) sites that require game character data to function well.

    As for the Lore Book - well I have always used the wiki myself.
    Fight on my dwavern sisters! May the orc blood always wash right out your frilly dresses.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by enginekid88 View Post
    I don't think the thread starter has the authority or knowledge of what "WE" want. Therefore, the thread title is very misleading.

    I most certainly do not care about those things. I never used them, and for me if I want to check my characters I do so when logged into the game.

    Please do not make threads that pretend to speak for me, thanks.
    I used 'we' because I speak for more than one player (in fact a group of German speaking players on Anduin, and of course for all potential players who would support the request). This is one legal way of addressing players and certainly not against any forum rules. Sorry to hear that this offended you and I understand that you are not feeling represented in this thread. This is alright!


    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    Highly doubtful, as it's common for 10% or less of players in MMOs to even bother reading its forums (let alone posting or using other features). Also, I've obviously known about the character sheets since it arrived, but rarely used it - partly because I just look in-game when I want, and partly because it's routinely out of date. I suspect I'm not uncommon either.

    Type "data.lotro.com" in your browser, and you'll be able to see the general format their web service uses. I've never used it myself, but it looks like you have to register with Turbine to get this data, and they'll provide a key you can use. No idea if they'll open it up to anyone new at this point... Sapience said it would likely be shut off at some point.

    Khafar

    Thank you, I will try that.
    I certainly hope this kind of access won't be shut off. Dear Turbine Team, would you mind commenting on this?

    As for the first part of your statement: I did not come across this 10% number in my quick research, but I don't deem it unlikely anyway. I however fail to see the connection between reading this forum (e.g. only 2-3 out of the 10 most active players in 'my' guild do so, and not even regularly) and displaying character info out of game. I believe the latter rather scales with number of characters per account. Taking again the guild that I am member of as example yields that ALL players with more than 2 characters regularly displayed their toons in a browser to manage crafting. They are unhappy that this feature is gone. While this is certainly not representative for all, it at least gives us a hint that this was a real used feature.

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singbard View Post
    I however fail to see the connection between reading this forum (e.g. only 2-3 out of the 10 most active players in 'my' guild do so, and not even regularly) and displaying character info out of game...
    People often assume their own use model is the "norm", and that's reinforced when they hang out with like-minded people. I'm no different.

    However, I have evidence that makes me more likely to be correct: Turbine kept their forums and Lotteries, while nuking MyLOTRO and Lorebook. They know precisely what the percentage of players using each are, and deemed the character data disposable (from a community site perspective, not a game perspective ). Yes, that probably has something to do with the relative cost of maintaining it, but for-profit companies don't generally axe their more popular features.

    I think this is the same sort of thing the PvMP community went through, because they've been saying for years that they're a "significant minority" or sometimes even a "majority" of players. Some of us kept telling them to keep an eye on Turbine's development choices, whether or not PvMP ever got any attention. Because if it didn't, their assumptions about PvMP's popularity were quite likely wrong. And lo and behold, in a fairly recent thread where someone was making the point once again about just how important PvMP was and how they were a "significant minority", Sapience let them know that they're actually "single digits", and have been for a long time. Hence the lack of development attention.

    Khafar

  15. #65
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    The lorebook was a wonderful reference work back when it was being properly updated, and I referred other players to it often. Unfortunately, it stopped being updated around RoI and gradually became less and less useful to me. At this point, it is little loss. I miss the concept but not the reality.

    I will also miss being able to view the equipment and stats of my alts without having to log into them, but I'll just try to make do by taking screenshots in the future.

  16. #66

    lorebook

    I miss the lorebook hardly ever had a problem with it plus for lotteries you could seed what items were and their bonuses

  17. #67
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    For those that miss the Lorebook, there is a great alternative out there:
    http://www.lotro-wiki.com.

    Not my site, but I use it all the time. I actually prefer(ed) it over the Lorebook here. The information there is probably more accurate than what was here.

  18. #68
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    People often assume their own use model is the "norm", and that's reinforced when they hang out with like-minded people. I'm no different.

    However, I have evidence that makes me more likely to be correct: Turbine kept their forums and Lotteries, while nuking MyLOTRO and Lorebook. They know precisely what the percentage of players using each are, and deemed the character data disposable (from a community site perspective, not a game perspective ). Yes, that probably has something to do with the relative cost of maintaining it, but for-profit companies don't generally axe their more popular features.

    I think this is the same sort of thing the PvMP community went through, because they've been saying for years that they're a "significant minority" or sometimes even a "majority" of players. Some of us kept telling them to keep an eye on Turbine's development choices, whether or not PvMP ever got any attention. Because if it didn't, their assumptions about PvMP's popularity were quite likely wrong. And lo and behold, in a fairly recent thread where someone was making the point once again about just how important PvMP was and how they were a "significant minority", Sapience let them know that they're actually "single digits", and have been for a long time. Hence the lack of development attention.

    Khafar
    Very well said.

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    I think this is the same sort of thing the PvMP community went through, because they've been saying for years that they're a "significant minority" or sometimes even a "majority" of players. Some of us kept telling them to keep an eye on Turbine's development choices, whether or not PvMP ever got any attention. Because if it didn't, their assumptions about PvMP's popularity were quite likely wrong. And lo and behold, in a fairly recent thread where someone was making the point once again about just how important PvMP was and how they were a "significant minority", Sapience let them know that they're actually "single digits", and have been for a long time. Hence the lack of development attention.
    Khafar
    And they're single digits, because of the lack of development attention too.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post

    I think this is the same sort of thing the PvMP community went through, because they've been saying for years that they're a "significant minority" or sometimes even a "majority" of players. Some of us kept telling them to keep an eye on Turbine's development choices, whether or not PvMP ever got any attention. Because if it didn't, their assumptions about PvMP's popularity were quite likely wrong. And lo and behold, in a fairly recent thread where someone was making the point once again about just how important PvMP was and how they were a "significant minority", Sapience let them know that they're actually "single digits", and have been for a long time. Hence the lack of development attention.

    Khafar
    The lack of people doesn't excuse the dismay of the hundreds who still play it.
    "I should call that a heavy loss, if it was not a wonder rather that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say he did, standing over the body of King Brand before the gate of Erebor, until the darkness fell."
    http://gladdenhistory.wikispaces.com/

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by xDementedx View Post
    And they're single digits, because of the lack of development attention too.
    When a company has a feature within a product that has a very low customer usage, it is because the feature is seriously lacking in capability that appeals to the customers. In order to remove the "lack" requires a huge investment in dollars and a lot of time to grow the usage numbers. Rarely is fixing this situation cost effective. Instead you let the feature limp along do the dismay of the people that really like it. Focus your efforts on features that are popular. The popular features is what allows the product to be viable.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Witch0King View Post
    The lack of people doesn't excuse the dismay of the hundreds who still play it.
    You have my sympathy for falling in love and spending a lot of time using a minor feature that will never get much support.

    Unfortunately, this situation is something everybody faces in all aspects of real life. You find yourself a member of very small group. You get ignored. You get run over by the herd. You find what you want because nobody wants to make it for you. Or somebody does make it - it comes with a very high price due to low volume or very difficult to get your hands on it.

    Fortunately in the case of PvP, it is a popular multiplayer game feature. You have to find a game that you enjoy that has a sizable PvP player base. Since there are plenty of competitive products with good implementations, I suspect a lot of people that like PvP have written Lotro off and gone elsewhere.

    This continual arrival of new customers. They find that PvP is lacking. They leave for a different game give no incentive to Turbine to do anything about the situation. Each person that leaves generates bad press to anyone that asks about Lotro PvP.

    That is another question that I have no answer to. How many people reject Lotro when they are making a decision as to what game to play next when they determine that Lotro is primarily a PvE game because PvP is important to them?
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    People often assume their own use model is the "norm", and that's reinforced when they hang out with like-minded people. I'm no different.
    However, I have evidence that makes me more likely to be correct: Turbine kept their forums and Lotteries, while nuking MyLOTRO and Lorebook. They know precisely what the percentage of players using each are, and deemed the character data disposable (from a community site perspective, not a game perspective ). Yes, that probably has something to do with the relative cost of maintaining it, but for-profit companies don't generally axe their more popular features.
    Khafar
    Yes, there is a bias in my and anyone's observations from a limited sample, this can not be avoided completely. My hope was, that enough players used out-of-game char information (with all the kin and guild launch sites around) to make at least a 'dent' big enough to be recognized as minority worthy of some support. In short: If axing the lorebook was necessary to improve forum from a operative and costing point of view, I can understand and live with that. Even better since there are alternatives around that we can use.

    Axing the API and with it the out-of-game char access is a different beast however: It can not be replaced easily, I would have to run a plugin that exports my char data (similar to the inspect function in game) to a community server that of course would need to be set up and maintained as well.

    Where are we going with Lotro? In an other thread, Sapience hinted that the API access will not be supported anymore and eventually shut off. This might mean the lottery will die too. It certainly seems that Lotro get's less and less company resources assigned and features are put to the torch in order of (negative) popularity to keep players in the best mood possible while optimizing profits. I can't help getting the impression that the cow is continued to being milked while slowly lead from the green grasses to the transport for slaughtering. Of course I hope with all my heart that I am wrong about that, but there is definitely some bitter taste when features get removed instead of improved.

    But I would like to thank the community for a rather high quality discussion, I read many well phrased statements that made sense.

    So quo vadis? If not for the Lorebook, is there at least a slight chance that we can get a smaller, light weight API access set up and/or maintained?

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singbard View Post
    In an other thread, Sapience hinted that the API access will not be supported anymore and eventually shut off. This might mean the lottery will die too.
    Not necessarily. Getting a list of active characters (name, level, server) per account on a weekly basis is almost certainly far less load than getting characters (everything) + inventory + metadata of various sorts. I don't know this of course, but I suspect Sapience fighting to keep the Lottery was partly about what they could afford to run and maintain (from both a performance and cost perspective). If they hadn't agreed to provide periodic character lists for the Lottery (soon, even if it's not all tied up in a bow now)... I just don't see how putting the Lottery in the new forums makes any sense at all. They would have axed it as well.

    Khafar

  25. #75
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    879
    Since this information has been removed from the forums any chance we could get some of the info displayed in game?

    1. Any chance we could get The War panel added to tabs viewed when inspecting someone?
    2. Any chance we could get the character level and rank date information added in game some place? Have it viewable with inspect also.
    3. Any chance inspect could be added for creep side also? Have the character, traits, the war, and biography panels viewable.
    4. Any chance being Anonymous could be separated from having inspect on/off (separate check box for it)?

 

 
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