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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    365

    Hour cooldown on hobbit and keg races now? What a fun, customer-centric improvement!

    Really? Last year, the dwarves were bugged the whole festival, so I couldn't finish the deed--this year--after years of having the races--they are suddenly so desperate to nickle and dime us to death, they out of the blue want us to pay 5 mithril coins to race more than once an hour?

    Nice job taking a fun event that people hung out at, chatting and emoting for 3 minutes between races-- and turn it into something most people will do once, then go away to do other things, likely forgetting to ever come back. And forget the deeds--unless you want to pay to get it. Lets see--to get all winners 3 times for the main deeds, each it would on average take 4 x 3 x 4. Thirty-six hours of hopping back every hour--for both races. Great.

    No problem with needing to make money, but this penny-ante kind of change gives an impression of desperation and greed.
    I7-6700k, Gigabyte Gaming 5 motherboard, MSI GamingX GTX 1070, Samsung 850 EVO SSD (500 GB), 3200 DD4 16 GB Ram, 1920x1200 28 inch monitor, Win 10

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    3,763
    Quote Originally Posted by daneyul View Post
    Really? Last year, the dwarves were bugged the whole festival, so I couldn't finish the deed--this year--after years of having the races--they are suddenly so desperate to nickle and dime us to death, they out of the blue want us to pay 5 mithril coins to race more than once an hour?

    Nice job taking a fun event that people hung out at, chatting and emoting for 3 minutes between races-- and turn it into something most people will do once, then go away to do other things, likely forgetting to ever come back. And forget the deeds--unless you want to pay to get it. Lets see--to get all winners 3 times for the main deeds, each it would on average take 4 x 3 x 4. Thirty-six hours of hopping back every hour--for both races. Great.

    No problem with needing to make money, but this penny-ante kind of change gives an impression of desperation and greed.
    Not familiar with these races. So they used to be on a 3-minute cooldown, but now they have been changed to a 1-hour cooldown with the option to pay real money in the form of Mithril Coins to reset the quest as often as you'd like?
    Work like no one is watching, dance like you don't need the money...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Frisco View Post
    Not familiar with these races. So they used to be on a 3-minute cooldown, but now they have been changed to a 1-hour cooldown with the option to pay real money in the form of Mithril Coins to reset the quest as often as you'd like?
    Actually, from start of race to start of next race, it was more like 9 minutes--3 minutes or so for the race, 3 minutes til you could bet again, then 3 minutes till the race started. You could get 2 tokens from a vendor every hour in both Thorins and Hobbiton.

    When it first came out, the tokens were account-wide as I recall, but then it went to character-bound--which was understandable. It was easy to pop in every once in a while when you remembered (or were running around doing other festival grinds) and quickly grab two (or 4 if you went to both places) race tokens--they accumulated pretty quickly-- then when you wanted to, use them on a number of races in a row. You could buy race tokens too--again, fine, considering they gave 2 (or 4) at a time every hour in-game as well. Considering the deeds, it was an appropriate way of handling it--even with the old cool downs, the deed of winning for each racer 3 times was a grind.

    Now--that's out. 1 race an hour, period, unless you buy with mithril coins. Another bit of fun tainted.
    Last edited by daneyul; Jul 26 2013 at 11:31 AM.
    I7-6700k, Gigabyte Gaming 5 motherboard, MSI GamingX GTX 1070, Samsung 850 EVO SSD (500 GB), 3200 DD4 16 GB Ram, 1920x1200 28 inch monitor, Win 10

  4. #4
    See, this is why I've only logged in about three times in the last year. After I had exhausted all the content and gotten down to just the grinds, the festivals kept me going. Previously, they had always been fun fluff with no strings attached. They were there mostly to generate more interest in the game and create the feeling of a dynamic world. F2P changed that, little by little.

    Now, instead of the developers making business decisions that make us want to stay, they add in mechanics to make us want to pay, all the while saying that they are just "convenience" services. That is such a misleading term when you alter the original experience to be less convenient AFTER the F2P launch. Turbine should have lost this opportunity to change after Day 1 of that horrid update. Instead of trying to make us happy, they turn it into a chore where we need to buy our own positive ingame experience. I hate the constant reminder that my time in the game could always be made better by shelling out. It taints the fluid, beautiful, engrossing world that the original developers created, and I wish I wasn't so bitter about that. I miss the feeling that I used to have when I logged into this game and never wanted to leave...
    Kalysm- Rank 7 Weaver
    Amote- 65 Hobbit Burglar, Lost Legion of Dunharrow

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    695

    Thumbs down Yet more fun destroyed.

    Seemed to start with the last Yule Festival where they are trying to really force the grind to be bought with real money. Not only is it disgraceful, it just ruins yet another aspect of the game that was fun for the sake of being fun.

    I can see MAYBE for those people that are truly FTP having some restrictions like this, but VIPs and others shouldn't have to deal with this.

    Just further reinforces my decision to cancel mine and my wife's subscriptions after almost 6 years. FTP and greed are ruining this game, and I think that Kate Piaz has done a horrible job as the person at the head of LOTRO. I long for the days of Jeff Steefle, where we actually got some meaningful content, and before the utter soul-crushing that is the push to the LOTRO Store...
    [COLOR=cornflowerblue][/COLOR]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    466
    Didn't the races require race tickets before (which were turned into Mithril Coins when they did away with the tickets)? There was a quest to get the tickets and wasn't that on an hour timer? So this isn't much of a change. You can't stockpile the tickets anymore, but that seems to be about it to me.
    Originally Posted by Damian6988
    That is not unlike drinking a pot of coffee and taking a Valium.
    "I want to stay up and get more work done, but I don't want to remember any of it."

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    268
    two years ago i remember people standing in a row all together, and there were plenty of them. both on the hill, and in thorin's gate. today i am happy if i am not alone in the instance. i have very hard time to believe that turbine actually does earn some money this way...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
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    695
    Quote Originally Posted by Dyslex View Post
    I hate the constant reminder that my time in the game could always be made better by shelling out. It taints the fluid, beautiful, engrossing world that the original developers created, and I wish I wasn't so bitter about that. I miss the feeling that I used to have when I logged into this game and never wanted to leave...

    This X100000%

    Soooo many things that they've added have tainted the game world with the store to the point that it really mars the beauty of the game world.

    The world building team is without a doubt one of the very best in the business, and the things they do with the aging game engine are nothing short of amazing and they've created some truly beautiful environments that will stick with me forever.

    THEN this F2P and store stuff comes along and it's like spray painting a bunch of disgusting/lewd objects on a priceless work of art, and all the hard work that some devs put in to make the game world better are lost in the sea of garbage...
    [COLOR=cornflowerblue][/COLOR]

  9. #9
    I never buy extra festival activity (or extra goes at festival games) from the store or with mithril coins I always have and always will just have as many goes as the free cool downs permit. That is just me though and I generally just accumulate enough tokens for a couple of cosmetics and one horse (for my main) per festival across my entire account. I'm not bothered about the deeds either.

    That said

    I entirely feel those who are into the festivals and want more things and deeds. The winter snowball fight was never my thing but even I could see that was entirely ruined by the penny pinching attitude. I really just don't get it, the festivals are meant to be light hearted fun, something to be uplifting and generate a feelgood factor. And if the customers are happy, who knows, they might just hang around and decide they want to spend real cash on other meatier "serious" aspects and items in the game. I kind of feel for those employees charged with trying to lift community spirits when they see this kind of stuff, they must inwardly groan knowing the community response but are powerless against the unlistening bean counters.
    Must remember to engage brain before using keyboard

  10. #10
    All the monetizing is why I cancelled my subscription. My way of slapping Turbine's hand away from my pockets. I got tired of telling myself, "It'd be more fun if I had the TP to get 'this' or 'that'." Tried that. It wasn't more fun.


    Won't surprise me to see Helm's Deep up for preorder at $100, $80, and $60 options, either.

    Meh. Enough.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Rainith View Post
    Didn't the races require race tickets before (which were turned into Mithril Coins when they did away with the tickets)? There was a quest to get the tickets and wasn't that on an hour timer? So this isn't much of a change. You can't stockpile the tickets anymore, but that seems to be about it to me.
    As I explained 3 posts above--you got TWO tickets in both Hobbiton and Thorins every hour. That's 4 races at a time. Just a click for 2 tickets (or 4 if you went to both places). Even if you didn't actively stockpile them--you could run multiple races pretty much at will by visiting two npcs. And the mechanism did make collecting some for later trivial, as it should have been for something that has always been a light, fun event. Anyone interested could easily collect a few race tickets in their spare time.

    What they've done represents a huge change in how often people can and will do the races and the feasibility of completing the deeds. And more--it just siphons the positivity out of it.

    I agree with the idea that maybe this is appropriate as a limit/incentive for free-to-players -- but for the VIPs who pay them every month? Sad.
    Last edited by daneyul; Jul 26 2013 at 01:26 PM.
    I7-6700k, Gigabyte Gaming 5 motherboard, MSI GamingX GTX 1070, Samsung 850 EVO SSD (500 GB), 3200 DD4 16 GB Ram, 1920x1200 28 inch monitor, Win 10

  12. #12
    Spending 5 Mithril Coins every 9 minutes to repeat the race quests is like paying Turbine between $3 and $4 an hour for the privilege.

    Instead of paying to repeat the quest, why not just let us bribe the hobbits and dwarves with those Mithril Coins to get them to win?

  13. #13
    It is too bad they are going (have been going) in this direction. I think they want to compete with NWN in cash grab shop! To be honest I personally won't leave the game till they shut off the lights but I pay for 4 subs and 3 of those we decided not to renew (my kids all play). I will let them go to FTP. I hate this constant reminder that LOTRO will be so much better if I use the store. I understand that the now infamous statement "The store will be for a convenience not for an advantage" was probably the original goal. But tricks like this , take away a convenience from the game then add that convenience to the store, continue to drive me away from logging in. I don't want them not to make money but why not focus on cosmetics, mounts and superficial things like that? I am at the point where being a subscriber doesn't seem like it has any advantages.
    they are all dead.. they just don't know it yet....

  14. #14
    So sad. Game has turned into : The Lord of the Rings Online Store*
    .
    .
    .
    .
    (*) now with bonus MMORPG mini-game
    I had
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000001a6174/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    as a sig before it was popular

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredelas View Post
    Instead of paying to repeat the quest, why not just let us bribe the hobbits and dwarves with those Mithril Coins to get them to win?
    Or at the very least, allow them to mark our bet-stub as a winner anyway.

    I admit, there are several RNG pull based events I might be tempted to lay down a finite number of mithril coins for the reward I actually want rather than grinding for them, because I refuse to spend $ for an RNG pull.
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
    Delego-L85 Hunter ; Stodden-L51-Captain ; Edhul-L61-Loremaster
    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  16. #16
    Summer Fest was always my favorite, until this year. I miss the social (and usually fun) aspect of many people hanging out on the hill. It was a party between races. The 1 hr cd has killed my interest in summer fest now.

    Also now one cannot even get to the hobbit race on the hill without going to MD first. Huh?
    I would do my 10 minutes of fishing and run to the hill for the fun. No longer

    Way to go Turbine! Keep up the great work because I am having so much fun not enjoying the fests anymore. (seething sarcasm)

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    California
    Posts
    174
    Quote Originally Posted by tickertape View Post
    Summer Fest was always my favorite, until this year. I miss the social (and usually fun) aspect of many people hanging out on the hill. It was a party between races. The 1 hr cd has killed my interest in summer fest now.

    Also now one cannot even get to the hobbit race on the hill without going to MD first. Huh?
    I would do my 10 minutes of fishing and run to the hill for the fun. No longer

    Way to go Turbine! Keep up the great work because I am having so much fun not enjoying the fests anymore. (seething sarcasm)
    Frankly I fail to see the purpose in putting the hobbit and keg races inside an instance space that you can only get to via horse like Winterfell. I mean... ok Winterfell I get...it's a special place to go to so separate space is fine... but the hobbit races no longer being up the hill??? And no chasing the dwarfs along in the snow??? It was lots of fun in the past to just go hang out and party between races, as you say. The feel of the races now is: go, see, get out. Its bad enough that the mithril-in-your-face thing has reared its head again, but this was a completely stupid move if you ask me.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Schreik View Post
    I can see MAYBE for those people that are truly FTP having some restrictions like this, but VIPs and others shouldn't have to deal with this.

    Just further reinforces my decision to cancel mine and my wife's subscriptions after almost 6 years. FTP and greed are ruining this game, and I think that Kate Piaz has done a horrible job as the person at the head of LOTRO. I long for the days of Jeff Steefle, where we actually got some meaningful content, and before the utter soul-crushing that is the push to the LOTRO Store...
    I couldn't agree with you more. I stopped my VIP after a year as it is just not worth it in my opinion. VIPs should actually be treated like VIPs. VIPs should be able to do quests that can be reset with Mithril Coins 2-3 times a day before they have to pay anything.

    It is shocking how bad VIPs are treated at the moment. They should not have the same restrictions as everyone else.

    Unless you play in the Moors or are leveling alts, there really is no incentive to be VIP once your character is level capped. And it's cheaper to just buy all the quests packs anyway.
    Last edited by Ellieni; Jul 27 2013 at 06:39 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    355
    Maybe at some point they'll run some statistics and see how many people do / do not run the races as compared to previous times and realize what they've done. Me, I try to stay away from the festivals at this point. They are massive timesinks with almost no rewards and the grind to get the small rewards that are available is shocking.

    What should have been fun light entertainment with rewards for spending your time at the festival have turned into tedium. Mostly this is because they don't want to bother to spend salaries to get the festivals updated yearly, and because they don't want to put in nice new cosmetic stuff when it could be put in the store, or in Lalia's in-game double-dipping store market.

    The mithril coins thing, with the "first you pay bad exchange rates for TP, and then you pay worse exchange rates for mithril coins" is one of the worse ideas they've come up with in years. Maybe people really are so mathematically oblivious and so desiring for instant gratification that they'll do it anyway; but to me it just seems stupid. Whoever came up with it at Turbine should really be ashamed of themselves.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cornwall, UK
    Posts
    1,383
    There must be a load of suckers out there somewhere still sinking money into this game, but as for me and most players I speak to are spending less on the game as Turbine are discouraging us by making it less fun all the time. It seems to be a disease amongst companies these days that they seem unable to understand you can make more profit by selling things for $1 to 1,000 people than you can by selling the same item for $5 to only 100 people. It's not as if Turbine's production costs are more, since they already paid for them and they are the same no matter how many you sell.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by podgie_bear View Post
    There must be a load of suckers out there somewhere still sinking money into this game, but as for me and most players I speak to are spending less on the game as Turbine are discouraging us by making it less fun all the time. It seems to be a disease amongst companies these days that they seem unable to understand you can make more profit by selling things for $1 to 1,000 people than you can by selling the same item for $5 to only 100 people. It's not as if Turbine's production costs are more, since they already paid for them and they are the same no matter how many you sell.
    Um excuse me but I still spend money on this game. Despite it's certain problems, I still find the game fun & it's my entertainment. I do not mind spending money on this game. It's my choice just like it's your choice to not spend money. Calling people suckers cause they spend money on this game & can still enjoy it still is not necessary. You should be happy there are people who still spend money on this game & don't mind doing it because if everyone just stopped, you'd no longer have a game to play.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    365
    Quote Originally Posted by Eartholloth View Post
    Um excuse me but I still spend money on this game. Despite it's certain problems, I still find the game fun & it's my entertainment. I do not mind spending money on this game. It's my choice just like it's your choice to not spend money. Calling people suckers cause they spend money on this game & can still enjoy it still is not necessary. You should be happy there are people who still spend money on this game & don't mind doing it because if everyone just stopped, you'd no longer have a game to play.
    I don't think podgie_bear meant no one should spend money on the game with the "sucker" comment. Of course people should spend money on the game--I do----every month with my subscription, every time an update comes out, and more than a few times on TP bundles. I support the heck out of LotRO.

    But there is a lot of truth to the "they think we're all suckers" comment. It's apparent in the constant shilling, the nickle-and-diming, the pay-to-win items, etc. Especially since all of those are pointed at the VIP players who put in their subscription money just as much as to the people who never gave them a dime.

    Turbine is not in the business to give away software, and I really have no big problem with free-to-players being required/encouraged/even-begged to throw some money in. NONE of that should be something people that pay a monthly subscription have to deal with. Paying for some cosmetic items is fine--but the whole freaking reason I pay is to avoid hassles and limitations to the game itself.

    But what do I get? "Enhancements" such as changing to a one-hour cool down on festival events unless I pay MORE.

    Really, really thinking VIP is just not worth it. And once I stop paying for my wife and my subs I'll be shopping around in the off chance there's another quality MMO out there that hasn't succumbed to this game-destroying philosophy.
    Last edited by daneyul; Jul 27 2013 at 10:02 AM.
    I7-6700k, Gigabyte Gaming 5 motherboard, MSI GamingX GTX 1070, Samsung 850 EVO SSD (500 GB), 3200 DD4 16 GB Ram, 1920x1200 28 inch monitor, Win 10

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    missouri
    Posts
    2,469
    F2P has nothing to do with it, it's all about the greed. That is why turbine went F2P to begin with. They can make a bigger profit off F2P then subs.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by daneyul View Post
    When it first came out, the tokens were account-wide as I recall, but then it went to character-bound--which was understandable. It was easy to pop in every once in a while when you remembered (or were running around doing other festival grinds) and quickly grab two (or 4 if you went to both places) race tokens--they accumulated pretty quickly-- then when you wanted to, use them on a number of races in a row. You could buy race tokens too--again, fine, considering they gave 2 (or 4) at a time every hour in-game as well.
    I don't remember if the race tokens were account bound or not but you're simply wrong with saying we got two tokens per race per hour. It was every TWO hours, which guess what.. means you're able to run the exact same number of races in the same time span. 2 tokens per hour = 4 tokens per two hours. It's now more spread out instead of consolidated and that may well be something to complain about given a person's preferred playstyle. But to assert they've changed the number of races we could run with the tokens they give out is plain false.

    edit: how much does each mithril coin cost? If they cost less than 100tp (which is what last year's festival tickets cost) then they've actually lowered the price of unlocking more games (that's assuming it costs 1 coin to unlock it.. I don't know [edit no 2: I see it costs 5].. I'm not playing the festival as I find it more disappointing that there's so very little new things and cosmetics are old, ugly models just reskinned.. though the actual pattern is quite nice.)
    Last edited by Lothirieth; Jul 27 2013 at 10:59 AM.
    [url]http://wanderingthroughdigitalworlds.wordpress.com/[/url]

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Cornwall, UK
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    1,383
    Quote Originally Posted by Eartholloth View Post
    Um excuse me but I still spend money on this game. Despite it's certain problems, I still find the game fun & it's my entertainment. I do not mind spending money on this game. It's my choice just like it's your choice to not spend money. Calling people suckers cause they spend money on this game & can still enjoy it still is not necessary. You should be happy there are people who still spend money on this game & don't mind doing it because if everyone just stopped, you'd no longer have a game to play.
    Sorry, I didn't mean anyone spending money on this game was a sucker, I meant there must be a load of people stupid enough to pay mithril coins for festival tickets otherwise Turbine would not continue with them. Spending money on this game is something I still do myself, but I don't encourage Turbine by wasting my money buying tickets to play the festival games that used to be free until they got even greedier than ever and capped how often you could play them, UNLESS YOU PAY TO PLAY WHAT USED TO BE FREE!
    Last edited by podgie_bear; Jul 27 2013 at 12:56 PM.

 

 
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