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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Florida
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    1,003
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarenius View Post
    The only reason so few kins have completed flight is that there are very few kins still raiding. It really isn't that hard.
    While I agree with you in theory, I believe you have the cause and effect reversed. I don't think Flight hasn't been completed by many kins because few kins are still raiding, I think it's actually the fact that Flight was delayed at launch, then quickly taken down after reopening, then was simply unbeatable then nerfed but "buffed" with a rediculous amount of lag making it nearly unbeatable, that kins aren't raiding (amoung a laundry list of other reasons, but since raiding is what raiders do, given Flight's history, I believe it played a big factor in it, or at least the straw that broke the camel's back sorta thing).

    Now again, I agree with you that the mobs, strat and mechanics make this raid easily farmable, especially after the nerf. Without the lag, I wouldn't doubt that we would have 20-30 or more kins not only downing T2C Flight, but farming it (or able to, if loot tables were... eh n/m). But given the horrendous(sp?) amount of lag, it not only makes it nearly unplayable, but it doesn't make it very fun to even attempt. As Cirone said, even though after completing it for the first time is very rewarding, it is still watered down by the fact that we didn't spend all this time trying to come up with a strat to effectively deal with the mechanics of the current end-game raid, but simply hoping for LUCK that it will only lag for 2-3 seconds, every single spawn, vs. lagging for 4-5+ seconds...
    Elendilmir
    Kinship: [URL="http://e-apex.guildlaunch.com/index.php?gid=256768&sid=3b8e42d88e54213114e395e1cdd477ae"]Apex[/URL]
    Garcimili - 85 GRD /// Arthilios - 85 HTR /// RonSwanson - Defiler

  2. #52
    At 75 with Tower of Orthanc raid there was effectively 5 raids** to be done but with Rohan there was only 2 raids. By time Flights came back up I'd wager 30% of the remaining t2c raiders on Vilya have already left. The raiders who have stuck around haven't been enthused to play with the Flights lag. I've seen many regular t1 raiders boycott flights instance.

    **Each individual tower wing is more raid status worthy than the 3 Erebor raids.

  3. #53
    Why you are still care about it? Off peak got kill about 70-75 mobs pre nerf version, after nerf we left cuz dont have motivate and by other reason. I'm pretty sure a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster. kthxbai
    Ukitake! Off peak! [url]http://offpeak.webs.com/[/url]

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,245
    Quote Originally Posted by SCHawks73 View Post
    While I agree with you in theory, I believe you have the cause and effect reversed. I don't think Flight hasn't been completed by many kins because few kins are still raiding, I think it's actually the fact that Flight was delayed at launch, then quickly taken down after reopening, then was simply unbeatable then nerfed but "buffed" with a rediculous amount of lag making it nearly unbeatable, that kins aren't raiding (amoung a laundry list of other reasons, but since raiding is what raiders do, given Flight's history, I believe it played a big factor in it, or at least the straw that broke the camel's back sorta thing).

    Now again, I agree with you that the mobs, strat and mechanics make this raid easily farmable, especially after the nerf. Without the lag, I wouldn't doubt that we would have 20-30 or more kins not only downing T2C Flight, but farming it (or able to, if loot tables were... eh n/m). But given the horrendous(sp?) amount of lag, it not only makes it nearly unplayable, but it doesn't make it very fun to even attempt. As Cirone said, even though after completing it for the first time is very rewarding, it is still watered down by the fact that we didn't spend all this time trying to come up with a strat to effectively deal with the mechanics of the current end-game raid, but simply hoping for LUCK that it will only lag for 2-3 seconds, every single spawn, vs. lagging for 4-5+ seconds...
    I'm sure the lag has an effect, but I don't think there are that many kins who've even attempted post-nerf flight. The vast majority of the players I know who played this game mostly for endgame PvE quit months ago (or log on very infrequently) due to complete and utter boredom. There's little motivation for them to come back for flight - complete it once and you're in the same situation, as this cluster has zero replay value.
    Eraelin | Redemnus

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoriu View Post
    I'm pretty sure a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster.
    If "a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster" and you are posting in a thread about "this trash raid cluster", that means.......
    [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000][B]Thorcar[/B][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff8c00][B]Into The West - Elendilmir
    [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#00ffff][B]Apex - Elendilmir[/B][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    707
    Quote Originally Posted by Tarenius View Post
    There's little motivation for them to come back for flight - complete it once and you're in the same situation, as this cluster has zero replay value.
    I agree. The only reason to complete this raid cluster is to be a completionist, which was pretty much our sole motivation to peel ourselves away from other interests. For a raid to have replay value, it either has to be really fun and/or good loot. As it currently stands, this raid fails on both counts.
    [CENTER][COLOR=#ff0000][B]Thorcar[/B][/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff8c00][B]Into The West - Elendilmir
    [/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#00ffff][B]Apex - Elendilmir[/B][/COLOR][/CENTER]

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by jamieboy333 View Post
    this took a lot of work planning a strat around the defining feature of the instance: lag.
    Lag, the true lotro killer.

    Surprisingly a feature caused by mounted combat as confirmed by sapience.
    [highlight][color=black][size=2][B](•_•) Out numbered? Out gunned?
    ( •_•)>⌐■-■
    (⌐■_■) Challenge Accepted[/B][/size][/color][/highlight]

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    308
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorcar View Post
    If "a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster" and you are posting in a thread about "this trash raid cluster", that means.......
    Belated gratz Apex. My deed tab is jealous (I will clean it up eventually). Oh and ignore Uki, I love him, but he is the biggest troll since Kyorakun
    [CENTER][B][COLOR=#ffff00]Isabaeux[/COLOR][/B] - 2nd rate Captain | [B][COLOR=#ffff00]Falurze[/COLOR][/B] - 3rd rate Guard
    Off Peak | Elendilmir[/CENTER]

  9. #59
    This lag may have manifested over to the Battle for Erebor raid when starting the fight with honorguard...quite amusing.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    71
    Brothers of Metal Flight T2 CM [Gwaihir]

    Last edited by Acadios; Oct 25 2013 at 04:16 AM.
    Aybara - Tank
    Brothers of Metal [Gwaihir]
    www.brothersofmetal.de

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    576
    Another Flight T2C video, coming from Anduin[DE].



    Presented by the "wipeout" raid alliance & friends.
    Eruadarion - Captain
    Belegaer [DE] & Gwaihir [DE]

  12. #62
    Wow, very nice, it must be amazing to play with zero lag.. I only wish we could all have that
    Founding Member of the Vocal Minority....

    "Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."
    Captain Malcolm Reynolds

  13. #63
    i hope you noticed that the winamp speed was increased
    there were properly the same amount of lags like on your server.

    //translated with google // sry for my bad english //
    [img]http://s3.imgimg.de/uploads/Xera3c555eccjpg.jpg[/img]

  14. #64

    LMt2c mechanics

    Hello, i have 1 question concerning the mechanics. When you kill 1 of the remaining 3 adds from a''offiacial wave'' you'll get an extra wave right ? Well on the videos i saw that was indeed the case. but what i dont get is this, after the 1st extra wave ( and also the other extra waves) i see the 2nd offiacial wave coming in at 1:45. i thought these official waves only came on 2/4/6/8 minutes !? how is it possible that they are coming sooner ?

  15. #65
    If u kill one of the remaining 3 adds from "extra waves" u get an additional wave immediately
    So u are able to decide when extra waves are spawning.
    If u dont kill one of those last 3 adds from extra waves u get a new wave 2 min after the spawn of the current wave.
    This mechanic was used by us

    2nd methode
    U set time based waves (with the first wave)
    U kill the first add of the last 3 adds at 1:00 min (wave spawns)
    U kill the second add of the last 3 adds from wave 1 at 2:00 min
    The third add has to stay alive

    After that, every minute is automatically spawning a new wave without doing anything (so u set the timers with the first wave)
    And! 2min after every spawn of the new waves u could kill the last 3 adds of those waves without instant spawning new
    [IMG]http://fs2.directupload.net/images/150325/5dqj4qir.jpg[/IMG]
    [URL="http://www.mka-thilo.de/sippe3/"]Wipeout-Raid[/URL]

  16. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoriu View Post
    Why you are still care about it? Off peak got kill about 70-75 mobs pre nerf version, after nerf we left cuz dont have motivate and by other reason. I'm pretty sure a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster. kthxbai
    Precisely the same as my kin. We came close I have a video 7.5 min long at 74 mobs down. We got to the point were we knew it was "possible" but who cares. It was boring, repetitive, laggy and with news of the nerf we really couldn't have cared less. I made massive spreadsheets and spent dozens of hours talking with officers regarding strategies to this. We came up with some crazy outside the box strats. I had more fun planning than playing.

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Santoriu View Post
    Why you are still care about it? Off peak got kill about 70-75 mobs pre nerf version, after nerf we left cuz dont have motivate and by other reason. I'm pretty sure a real raiding kin's dont care about posting/talk about this trash raid cluster. kthxbai
    Be honest: You think u deserved being one of the first to beat CM, for all you effort. Unfortunately ur kin stopped raiding and now ur miffed saying: "Oh no now all the noob kins are posting their success and sharing their strats, they can't be "real raiders" because a "real raider" would stop posting/talking about this thrash raid immediately after a nerf. Let's tell 'em that being proud of beating a nerfed CM makes them not real raiders."

    It still is a challenge, not far away from ToO CMs (yes, I did complete them all on level) and one can be proud of beating it, admit it or not. Most people still don't understand the different strats for Flight CM. Posting videos and "talking" about it is helpful for them.
    And finally, if the nerfed CM is not challenging enough for your kin why don't you try to beat the "original CM" instead of lowering others peoples accomplishments. Maybe the red "number-of-adds-killed"-bar wasn't updated for a reason.

  18. #68
    Overall, people don't like this raid (FtLM) because you just kill "regular" mobs ; there is no boss and so some see it like a hard skrimish-like encounter instead of a raid.
    In terms of strategy it actually is not as easy as some people try to make it look like, there are lots of mechanisms to be understood.

    Regarding beating the "pre-nerf" challenge (100mobs), we wanted to try but gave up : the freezes on the 2 (out of seven !) waves that have 4 summoners that came with the same update that nerfed it make it impossible. And it does not always freezes only on those waves...
    It's sad because we know that our AoE-heavy strategy would have worked for it.

  19. #69
    Flight was the worst of the 3. And not just the lag. How anyone thinks being able to tank mobs by standing behind them and they never turn around to attack you is realistic is hard to believe. To me, that felt more like a exploit than a strat.

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    7,583
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm429 View Post
    How anyone thinks being able to tank mobs by standing behind them and they never turn around to attack you is realistic is hard to believe. To me, that felt more like a exploit than a strat.
    I felt was insulting as a player to be placed in a position where that was the only solution. Sadly it was something you pretty much had to accept as WAI to complete it. =/
    Crell-L85-Champion - Riddermark ; Swego-L85-Burglar ; Kotvi-L95-Runekeeper
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    Deglorion - SoA XP Disabler

  21. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Crell_1 View Post
    I felt was insulting as a player to be placed in a position where that was the only solution. Sadly it was something you pretty much had to accept as WAI to complete it. =/
    I have to agree with you there, it was very insulting.

  22. #72
    WE GOT THIS! from Nimrodel banged our heads against the wall to the final day and it was not until overtime that we completed the Flight challenge. Looks like we will be the last group to complete this on-level, it's been one hell of a journey and congrats to everyone that accomplished the challenge!


  23. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    1,134
    Very nice job to the kins who have completed this.

    With that, I would like to bid a good riddance to this raid cluster.
    Beastwise - Captain, R15 | Shock and Awe | Gladden

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,864
    Quote Originally Posted by Beastnas View Post
    Very nice job to the kins who have completed this.

    With that, I would like to bid a good riddance to this raid cluster.
    Surely this will be scalable beyond lvl 85, so we can get to do this raidcluster again and again and again and again and again!

  25. #75
    Can add Withywindle to the list.
    Unfortunately after 95

    [IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/344cakx.jpg[/IMG]

 

 
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