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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoftheRealm View Post
    Well, we do know that we'll be getting HD information--at least about instances and battle-something-or-others (a new type of skirmish?)--with the next 20 Questions and Sapience said a possible date for the release of the next 20 Questions would be when the forums come back up.
    No...we don't actually know that. All Sapience mentioned were large battles and instances. He didn't specify any further than that. The questions (and answers) could all be generalities and cover how such things are developed without ever mentioning any HD plans at all.

    In any case, I wouldn't look for the next 20Q post before next Friday (8/2).

  2. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    No...we don't actually know that. All Sapience mentioned were large battles and instances. He didn't specify any further than that. The questions (and answers) could all be generalities and cover how such things are developed without ever mentioning any HD plans at all.

    In any case, I wouldn't look for the next 20Q post before next Friday (8/2).
    I'm pretty sure the implication was that the large battles and instances discussed were going to be at least partly HD related. The large battles part seems especially to signal new content. I guess you could be right and it could be a discussion of old content like OD or Vile Maw or Tower of Orthanc, but I think people would be pretty disappointed to get a discussion of old content instead of a look ahead to new. And perhaps you're thinking that large battles refers to Flight instance, but that seems kind of odd. So I'll stick by my interpretation that it'll contain information about HD content or HD mechanisms.

  3. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    No...we don't actually know that. All Sapience mentioned were large battles and instances. He didn't specify any further than that. The questions (and answers) could all be generalities and cover how such things are developed without ever mentioning any HD plans at all.

    In any case, I wouldn't look for the next 20Q post before next Friday (8/2).
    Well, Sapience said that in a response to a question about when we will be getting HD information. It might not all be about HD instances, but it would make sense to see at least a few.
    It might be something like:
    Q13: Will we be getting new instances in Helm's Deep?
    A13: Nope Next question.
    Last edited by angrolas; Jul 27 2013 at 09:04 AM.
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  4. #29
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    Well I'm sure pretty soon we're all going to be getting some sort of concrete information because Fall is approaching fast. I'm guessing that there will be at least one of the following things made known about Helm's Deep... either: A) pre-purchasing will become available along with the bonus content, or B) the release date gets pushed back to winter time. In a twisted kind of way I almost want "B" to happen because my girlfriend lets me off the hook more when she comes home and finds out that I've been playing video games all day when it's freezing outside. Forcing a chick flick on me to make up for hours of neglectful lotro playing? Sure!...

  5. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Seldomblue View Post
    My guess is September 22nd.. as it's in the fall and it's Bilbo's and Frodo's birthday.
    I just don't see how they could release this expansion in September. They haven't even gone to beta yet and it's almost August. There's also been no talk of a pre-order yet, which would be awfully strange for an expansion coming out in less than two months. I'm almost dead certain that we'll see an announcement, probably at the time when they release more data about HD, that says the expansion has been pushed back to early 2014.
    Last edited by donxavier; Jul 27 2013 at 10:15 PM.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by donxavier View Post
    I just don't see how they could release this expansion in September. They haven't even gone to beta yet and it's almost August. There's also been no talk of a pre-order yet, which would be awfully strange for an expansion coming out in less than two months. I'm almost dead certain that we'll see an announcement, probably at the time when they release more data about HD, that says the expansion has been pushed back to early 2014.
    I disagree. In one sense, MC was more work (and far more than any player truly knows, including me) than I expect for a class revamp that might just change some skills, move some things around to a different UI, and make your initial choices have more weight or consequence later on. I expect the Beta, and pre-purchases to be announced in a week or two, with the Beta beginning in the last 10 days of August and run through September, with an October release date. If instances are included, other than those specific to the Battle of the Hornburg, I expect them to come with U14 next spring. I might (and am probably) be wrong.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by angrolas View Post
    Well, Sapience said that in a response to a question about when we will be getting HD information. It might not all be about HD instances, but it would make sense to see at least a few.
    It might be something like:
    Q13: Will we be getting new instances in Helm's Deep?
    A13: Nope Next question.
    Very true, for both context and possibility.

    What I actually expect is some data on what large battles are supposed to be like, and that the Hornburg will be one (well...duh!), but without much in the way of specifics about HD or the Hornburg.

    After all, we know that three large battles are coming. There is the Battle of the Hornburg (the smallest of the three), the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, and the Battle at the Black Gate. Turbine has to deal with those three...somehow.

    My presumption is that Wulf's Cleft was a battle prototyping exercise and they will use extensions of that tech to handle the larger battles. We saw more of that in the battles of the Isen Fords.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by donxavier View Post
    I just don't see how they could release this expansion in September.
    Keep in mind that all we know is that Helm's Deep is supposed to be coming out in "Fall of 2013." September is only the very beginning of Fall, there's an entire 3-month span that the expansion could fall into.

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    I disagree. In one sense, MC was more work (and far more than any player truly knows, including me) than I expect for a class revamp that might just change some skills, move some things around to a different UI, and make your initial choices have more weight or consequence later on.
    You're not taking into account the severe technical challenges of the Battle of the Hornburg portion of the HD expansion. Turbine has said, on multiple occasions, that battle was going to be their toughest challenge. Tons of orcs running around on screen, flying missiles and hundreds of defenders is not going to be easy on a game that is already plagued with resource issues and challenges.

    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    I expect the Beta, and pre-purchases to be announced in a week or two, with the Beta beginning in the last 10 days of August and run through September, with an October release date. If instances are included, other than those specific to the Battle of the Hornburg, I expect them to come with U14 next spring. I might (and am probably) be wrong.
    I would be extremely surprised if we see beta in August, especially since we've heard nothing about pre purchase, which usually proceeds beta announcements by a month or two. Also, your estimation for an HD beta length seems a little too short. It would only give Turbine about a five week beta run. Rise of Isengard was in beta for about two months. Riders of Rohan was in beta even longer than that.

    Only time will tell which of us is correct, or neither, but I'm fairly confident that Helm's Deep won't come this year. Part of me hopes I'm wrong and that Turbine will get it out the door in time. However, I'm also afraid that if they do get it out on time it will be a shoddy expansion.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by BackAgainAndThere View Post
    Keep in mind that all we know is that Helm's Deep is supposed to be coming out in "Fall of 2013." September is only the very beginning of Fall, there's an entire 3-month span that the expansion could fall into.
    This is true but consider that beta for Rise of Isengard ran about two months. Beta for Riders of Rohan was even longer still. It's almost August and they haven't even made a beta announcement yet, which usually proceeds the beta invites by a week or more. So, at the earliest, that gives us a beta that might, I said might, start by the second week of next month. That would quite possibly put the release date in October. So, you're right it would still be within the realm of the Fall. However, you're forgetting that beta has, at least for the last few expansions, always been preceded by a pre-order announcement by at least a month or so, which we have yet to receive. They don't have to do the pre-order announcement first but that seems to be the formula they adhere to.

    Going off the timetable of previous releases, I think the earliest we could see a pre-order announcement will be August. Beta announcement early September. Actual beta starting late September. Two months or more for testing would put us deep into November. However, given how late into the year we are coupled with the fact that Update 11 came out only two months ago it just doesn't seem likely, to me, that this expansion will be out in the Fall.

    Again, I could be completely wrong. Only time will tell

  11. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by donxavier View Post
    It's almost August and they haven't even made a beta announcement yet, which usually proceeds the beta invites by a week or more. So, at the earliest, that gives us a beta that might, I said might, start by the second week of next month. That would quite possibly put the release date in October. So, you're right it would still be within the realm of the Fall. However, you're forgetting that beta has, at least for the last few expansions, always been preceded by a pre-order announcement by at least a month or so, which we have yet to receive. They don't have to do the pre-order announcement first but that seems to be the formula they adhere to.
    Just fyi, Mines of Moria beta began before pre-orders (both in August). and release date was mid-November, just in time for Thanksgiving Christmas sales.

  12. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoftheRealm View Post
    Just fyi, Mines of Moria beta began before pre-orders (both in August). and release date was mid-November, just in time for Thanksgiving Christmas sales.
    That's pre F2P and I'm not sure it really applies here as the way Turbine handles expansions seems to have changed since then.

  13. #38
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    instead of 20 questions, i'd rather see a pre-order site, or package details :P
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by donxavier View Post
    This is true but consider that beta for Rise of Isengard ran about two months.
    RoI was something of a special case, since shortly after the closed beta started, it was shut down while Turbine cleaned out all the people who considered the NDA to be an "interesting suggestion". That took 2 or 3 weeks during which no beta activity took place at all.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by donxavier View Post
    You're not taking into account the severe technical challenges of the Battle of the Hornburg portion of the HD expansion. Turbine has said, on multiple occasions, that battle was going to be their toughest challenge. Tons of orcs running around on screen, flying missiles and hundreds of defenders is not going to be easy on a game that is already plagued with resource issues and challenges.



    I would be extremely surprised if we see beta in August, especially since we've heard nothing about pre purchase, which usually proceeds beta announcements by a month or two. Also, your estimation for an HD beta length seems a little too short. It would only give Turbine about a five week beta run. Rise of Isengard was in beta for about two months. Riders of Rohan was in beta even longer than that.

    Only time will tell which of us is correct, or neither, but I'm fairly confident that Helm's Deep won't come this year. Part of me hopes I'm wrong and that Turbine will get it out the door in time. However, I'm also afraid that if they do get it out on time it will be a shoddy expansion.
    I suspect that the Battle part has been in the works for over a year. I suspect the design doc has been around for a year. I suspect that much of the preliminary work has already been done and is waiting for the class update part to finish. I might be wrong.

    I was in the RoR beta, and I remember that it was scheduled to be about 6 weeks in length before some of the MC work made it clear that the first couple of designs were not going to work. So, yes, I am basing my guess on my previous involvement. Pre-order information and a beta launch do not have to coincide, even if they have done so in the past. Every LoTRO beta that I have been in were late July or August when I was in them. I am expecting the same this go-around, though later in August than most.

    If you think ROR was 'shoddy', you should have seen it before the feedback that prompted the delay. My own experience has been that ROR was easily as good as ROI and easily matched SW:TOR when that launched. YMMV as they say.
    "No sadder words of tongue or pen are the words: 'Might have been'." -- John Greenleaf Whittier
    "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Yoda
    On planet Earth, there is a try.
    Indeed, in a world and life full of change, the only constant is human nature (A is A, after all :P).
    We old vets need to keep in mind those who come after us.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by cdq1958 View Post
    I suspect that the Battle part has been in the works for over a year. I suspect the design doc has been around for a year. I suspect that much of the preliminary work has already been done and is waiting for the class update part to finish. I might be wrong.

    I was in the RoR beta, and I remember that it was scheduled to be about 6 weeks in length before some of the MC work made it clear that the first couple of designs were not going to work. So, yes, I am basing my guess on my previous involvement. Pre-order information and a beta launch do not have to coincide, even if they have done so in the past. Every LoTRO beta that I have been in were late July or August when I was in them. I am expecting the same this go-around, though later in August than most.

    If you think ROR was 'shoddy', you should have seen it before the feedback that prompted the delay. My own experience has been that ROR was easily as good as ROI and easily matched SW:TOR when that launched. YMMV as they say.
    I've been in every beta since Siege of Mirkwood. So, I saw RoR since the beginning of its beta. I have a feeling that the Battle of the Hornburg is going to be HD's mounted combat.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by donxavier View Post
    I've been in every beta since Siege of Mirkwood. So, I saw RoR since the beginning of its beta. I have a feeling that the Battle of the Hornburg is going to be HD's mounted combat.
    Turbine have a tendency of liking to introduce 'new mechanics' with each expansion... MoM brought LIs, SoM had skirmishes, and RoR had mounted combat... RoI didnt really have anything beyond stat-cap removals which don't really count.

    Of all these new gameplay systems I think skirmishes have been the most successful... When turbine eventually gave incentive to run skirmishes in a raid configuration it really showed that they had actually put a good deal of work in to the system and created some interesting group-based encounters, Lieutenants, and boss fights.... Unfortunately it took them far too long to do this and they still have yet to give any incentive for running skirmishes of a higher tier or of group sizes below a 12-man (unless just soloing)

    If the 'Helm's Deep' mechanic can provide the following as en end-game activity I think it will be successful:

    Scalability of group size from solo to raid.
    3 Tiers of difficulty to challenge players of all abilities
    Appropriate rewards based on group size and level of challenge.
    Varied environments and a sense of danger.
    Variety and incentive to run all the content rather than just take the path of least resistance
    Fun!

    It will most certainly be challenging but if Turbine can get this right then HD may well be a decent expansion... Of course I will still long for a proper multi-boss raid, but I accept that is unlikely to happen for a long time, if ever again.

  18. #43
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    I would expect to see an announcement about the pre-sale (if there is going to be one) and beta with, or shortly after, the next set of questions which - I am guessing - will be out sometime next week.

    At this time, I really don't see a September release for Helm's Deep, especially if they plan on having instances. Probably looking at Late November/Early December.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Elderban View Post
    I would expect to see an announcement about the pre-sale (if there is going to be one) and beta with, or shortly after, the next set of questions which - I am guessing - will be out sometime next week.

    At this time, I really don't see a September release for Helm's Deep, especially if they plan on having instances. Probably looking at Late November/Early December.
    Next set of questions are due tomorrow.

    I don't either. That would be really stupid of Turbine to release it next month. I am guessing November. Maybe maybe October but I think that's pushing it. I just hope they learned from there mistakes with the last expansion. I wanna see big stuff in the top tier pre order.
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  20. #45
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    I hope the preorder will be sometime next week, definitely a good time considering the forum migration is done.
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  21. #46
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    Will we have the option of pre-purchasing Helm's Deep using Turbine Points?

    I pre-purchased RoR last year but I can't remember how I paid, or which options were available...

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BackAgainAndThere View Post
    Will we have the option of pre-purchasing Helm's Deep using Turbine Points?

    I pre-purchased RoR last year but I can't remember how I paid, or which options were available...
    All pre-purchases have been for cash. While it *might* have been fixed, last comment on Store purchases (which is where a TP pre-purchase would be done) can't be done unless what you're buying is actually available. And--obviously--a new expansion being PRE-purchased isn't available yet. If you pre-purchased RoR, you did it with real world money.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    All pre-purchases have been for cash. While it *might* have been fixed, last comment on Store purchases (which is where a TP pre-purchase would be done) can't be done unless what you're buying is actually available. And--obviously--a new expansion being PRE-purchased isn't available yet. If you pre-purchased RoR, you did it with real world money.
    Ah thanks for clarifying that.

  24. #49
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    Personally, I'm somewhat pleased about the absence of pre-orders. The last two, to my mind, have involved some form of back-peddling or appeasement on behalf of Turbine because something they promised would happen would be either delayed or cancelled. If they're waiting for a definitive list of content, then that will only help. Yes, it's unusual to have such an early announcement followed by practically nothing; but to date it hasn't been cancelled or postponed. If nothing else, Turbine cannot be accused of money-grabbing as a result of offering pre-orders which people - myself included - would order regardless of our knowledge of the area.

    Don't forget that this is the first expansion made/released with the Player Council in place. We don't know what effect they're having on the process. They could be debating little titbits thrown by Turbine in the development process, or be consulted on the nature of the pre-orders and what they should include. They're not going to break NDA, and I don't think any of us would ask them to, so we just have our own guesses and suppositions to fill or minds with.

    Saying all that, we don't even know if they're going to offer a pre-order this time. They could be trying something new, and offer it at launch via the store. I doubt it, if only because pre-orders offer an instant cash injection, but it is a possibility.

  25. #50
    i have no issue with them taking their sweet time would rather them wait tell next year to release it but i know a lot of people would probably flame me for saying that but if they were to release it this year i still think we are looking at mid November now maybe beta starts in the next week or two if we are lucky

 

 
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