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  1. #1
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    Audacity is more harmful than useful.

    I'll most of the reasons I think it's bad, and hopefully we can get some back and forth on the topic..

    I'll start with the power reduction, this was one of creeps strongest areas as their ability to drain power would often end otherwise long boring attrition-based stalemates. The reduction basically allows for thoughtless spam-based rotations with little to no thought to skill use, power consumption or timing. All power-drain skills are essentially worthless anyways do to the pace of current combat but it's literally next to impossible to drain the opponents power anyways, and I rarely see classes dip below 75% of their pool.

    The CC length reduction has been made meaningless as well, with the change to DR reset timer. It doesn't matter if the second root or stun is only 3 seconds, since with full audacity they'll last for 7 typically and a whopping 10-12 seconds later the timer resets and it's back to 6-7 seconds duration on root and stun. Not to mention fear isn't included in the daze-root-stun applications for some mindboggling reason so you can literally be nearly as permanently greybarred as I not-so-fondly remember in shadows of angmar. That's pure garbage, noone wants to sit at their keyboard and just....watch themselves sit there and die. Not entirely positive how that's beneficial in any manner, since the DR change essentially undid whatever good audacity granted to pvp, temporarily. This doesn't slow down PvP by making CC more meaningful, it just allows idiots to spam it more willy-nilly (which is what they do) and make others basically a non-factor in fights.

    The damage reduction.....as I've mentioned in prior posts, has been made worthless in light of the changes to outposts. I won't expand on that as I have already done so elsewhere, but forcing freeps into audacity gear in order to curb stat stacking has failed miserably and despite what many think more audacity is simply not going to solve the problem.

    I don't propose any solutions, but I do recognize that initially it did fix the problem of the majority easily obtaining the orthanc set and the unrealistic damage of first ages post-release of rise of isengard. However literally every beneficial aspect of audacity has been essentially undone by changes made entirely within the PvP zone.
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  2. #2
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    Well, audacity, just like everything Turbine does, was badly implemented, but I think we're better with it than without it.

  3. #3
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    The Power cost and damage reduction I can agree on. Especially the damage, since that was intended to make fights last longer, and now they're about as short as they were during Pre-Aud RoI(thirty minute healer fights exempt).

    But on the subject of CC I have to vehemently disagree. Perhaps you had a different experience with it during RoI than I did, or perhaps you don't quite remember it as clearly, but it was truly awful. What we have now doesn't even come close to it. Burglars especially could stun and daze you just once or twice and blow you to smithereens before you could even land a single skill. Granted that can still happen now, but mostly to lower ranked creeps. Back then that could happen to pretty much any Creep, regardless of rank.

    True, CC is more potent since the recent DR changes, perhaps overly so. But it is still more manageable than it was before Audacity, in my opinion.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    Well, audacity, just like everything Turbine does, was badly implemented, but I think we're better with it than without it.
    I aggree. It does help, my Blackarrow (13 aud) has WAY more survivability than my reaver (8 aud). My Blackarrow is oy 2 ranks higher than the reaver.
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  5. #5
    Audacity was great when it first started out, but I agree with the OP, with the changes to the moors, it's become dumb.
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  6. #6
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    I don't think the power matter is audacity's fault;

    Right now, what killed power drain effectiveness in PVP were the power/fate changes introduced in U10.

    Let's also face it, PD is a boring mechanic, one side should be able to win w/o needing of such method.
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  7. #7
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    If they wanted less damage and shorter-duration CC, they could've done it in different, easier ways. All Audacity did was discourage occasional PvPers. I mean, I used to be a fairly easy snack, since I didn't come to the 'moors often often enough to be invited to cool kid groups and would mostly solo, but now I don't even bother going, since with 0 Audacity, I can't kill much of anything. I suppose I could just join the zerg and get some pieces, but it's easier to just forget that the zone exists.
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  8. #8
    Personally I like the audacity system and want it to stay with tweaks. The fact that freep damage is nuts right now isn't the fault of audacity but rather stupid development. Reducing CC and insane crits is a good thing and audacity accomplishes that, though maybe not as much as it should. But still that 8k ec would be over 11k without audacity, so even more nuts.

    Commendations are so easy to get now, solo or in group. You will very quickly get 6 audacity on creepside and the cheaper gear on freepside and be in a pretty good spot. In addition, I'm seeing some classes like minis destroy creeps with pve gear. If freeps were able to wear their pve gear while still getting the cc and damage reduction, it'd be even worse then it is now. I support the ability of turbine to at least somewhat manage freep damage through audacity gear.

    What I'd like to see is a reduction to freep healing in the moors (and to a lesser extent creep healing) and more
    cosmetic choices.
    Edited due to violations of the community guidelines.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug View Post

    Commendations are so easy to get now, solo or in group. You will very quickly get 6 audacity on creepside and the cheaper gear on freepside and be in a pretty good spot. In addition, I'm seeing some classes like minis destroy creeps with pve gear. If freeps were able to wear their pve gear while still getting the cc and damage reduction, it'd be even worse then it is now. I support the ability of turbine to at least somewhat manage freep damage through audacity gear.

    What I'd like to see is a reduction to freep healing in the moors (and to a lesser extent creep healing) and more
    cosmetic choices.
    PvE gear isn't that dramatically different from PvP gear, OP's are far more harmful to the stupid damage being thrown around than PvE gear could ever be. It bears repeating that freepside "radiance" gear is pretty dull as well, but that's for a different thread or direction at least. My comments aren't centered around the difficulty of obtaining commendations, which is only really easy for seasoned players or players with alts that are capped.


    And in response to the PD being dumb, I agree to an extent but it should be an option.. debuffs are pointless if you only live a handful of seconds to begin with. I think personally that it's equally dumb that power is a mechanic but due to changes essentially every toon has to be brain-damaged to ever run out of power, allowing for pretty much whimsical spam-based skill choice.
    "death is nothing to us, for when we are.. death has not come. And when death has finally come, we are not"
    R7 Spider/R11 Reaver - R13/R11 Champion

  10. #10
    Audacity had some solid intentions, but the implementation was poor and we seem stuck with a horribly flawed system.

    Being a greenie on either side, but especially creepside is awful, this just makes it that much worse. Its bad enough you can barely afford your skills, but having to earn audacity at the same time is a major reason why many people try creepside and quit, or again to a lesser extent try freeping and quit. The price of entry for being competitive to too steep.

    I like the CC reduction, I think some skills have lost a little too much duration due to the flat 50% reduction, but overall full duration CC was inappropriate so long as pots have a 2 minute cooldown.

    Separating DR tables was fine, but the timer on the reset of DR needs to be bumped up to 30s at a minimum, or maybe even a full minute.

    Heals are stupid powerful with this system. Slow down fights via increasing morale pools so it takes more damage to kill someone.

    Not exactly related, but the massive inc healing buffs creeps get as they rank really isn't a good system. Granted right now its one of the few things allowing creep healers to come close to keeping pace with freep dps, but in groups, this bonus is more important than the traditional BFPs for morale, power, and damage, which is completely backwards in a system where heals are already king.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Not exactly related, but the massive inc healing buffs creeps get as they rank really isn't a good system. Granted right now its one of the few things allowing creep healers to come close to keeping pace with freep dps, but in groups, this bonus is more important than the traditional BFPs for morale, power, and damage, which is completely backwards in a system where heals are already king.
    You do realize certain freeps audacity gear such as cappies, hunters, and worst of all wardens can have skills that give -inc healing right? Not to mention a runekeeper has a skill that reduces creeps healing a bit, so it kinda balances out imo. Obviously you'd have to get the proper gear/or be a runekeeper to do it, but there are ways to reduce it.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    You do realize certain freeps audacity gear such as cappies, hunters, and worst of all wardens can have skills that give -inc healing right? Not to mention a runekeeper has a skill that reduces creeps healing a bit, so it kinda balances out imo. Obviously you'd have to get the proper gear/or be a runekeeper to do it, but there are ways to reduce it.
    I never said there wasn't (its my bread and butter gear-set on warden) and I can't stress enough, I'm painfully aware of how imbalanced healing and damage is between the sides.

    However, aside from guards set up specifically for shieldwall, no freeps are sitting over 10% inc healing, and most are at 0, or racial 5%. So a freep stuck in blight gets half the healing they would normally. By comparison, a r12 or so creep who has both stacks of the warden debuff on them is still getting close to the same amount of heals as a greenie.

    If we ever get other things in PvMP straightened out, the magnitude of what this buff means will be more apparent. The goal of audacity was to slow the pace of combat, so things weren't blowing up in the blink of an eye, which has been at least moderately achieved. Higher morale, or an equal reduction to healing as damage is a better choice though, and the addition of this inc healing buff to creeps as another band-aid to close the side imbalances is another step in the wrong direction.
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  13. #13
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    To reduce even more of the insane dps they lowered the stats on audacity gear and increased survivability(Vitality/mitigation insead of Agility/might/will). That was a big fail since freeps can just download plugins and onebutton armour swap as often as they want and have both survivability and insane dps.
    I can hardly believe those easymoders are still alowed to swap armour sets in combat. There is no hope for anything close to balance as long as freeps are free to get whatever they want at any time. For example wardens/Guards can tank like gods and have 15k crit defence and then in the next moment burst out tons of dps. I also find armour swapping lore breaking.
    Armour sets should be locked if not as soon as they enter moors then as soon as they enter combat.

    I also think audacity have to take some blame for the healing fest we got with the reduced inc dmg and reduced power cost. Heal=win. Not that creeps feel like they have any reduced inc dmg atm tho but look at the difference between a mini with audacity and a mini without.
    Last edited by grapez; Jul 25 2013 at 01:40 AM.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    I never said there wasn't (its my bread and butter gear-set on warden) and I can't stress enough, I'm painfully aware of how imbalanced healing and damage is between the sides.

    However, aside from guards set up specifically for shieldwall, no freeps are sitting over 10% inc healing, and most are at 0, or racial 5%. So a freep stuck in blight gets half the healing they would normally. By comparison, a r12 or so creep who has both stacks of the warden debuff on them is still getting close to the same amount of heals as a greenie.

    If we ever get other things in PvMP straightened out, the magnitude of what this buff means will be more apparent. The goal of audacity was to slow the pace of combat, so things weren't blowing up in the blink of an eye, which has been at least moderately achieved. Higher morale, or an equal reduction to healing as damage is a better choice though, and the addition of this inc healing buff to creeps as another band-aid to close the side imbalances is another step in the wrong direction.
    Yeah I understand man. These games mechanics are so broken its ridiculous. I was just saying there were ways to negate the incoming healing of creeps somewhat if specced properly for certain freep classes.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapez View Post
    That was a big fail since freeps can just download plugins and onebutton armour swap as often as they want and have both survivability and insane dps.
    .
    that's highly unrealistic and i doubt even a small sample of the population can or do actually use peripherals to gear swap, and so far as I know no actual lotro plugins are capable of this.

    anyways, gear swapping has its own detractors... even the momentary loss of audacity can easily be fatal.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Isindar View Post
    that's highly unrealistic and i doubt even a small sample of the population can or do actually use peripherals to gear swap, and so far as I know no actual lotro plugins are capable of this.

    anyways, gear swapping has its own detractors... even the momentary loss of audacity can easily be fatal.
    http://www.lotrointerface.com/downlo...ldSwapper.html

    sadly there is a plugin to help swap gear, but its not one click and a set is changed so it does not break the CoC
    Ssupermann: I hate minis, they have satellite lazers

  17. #17
    Audacity is just like radiance a big fail. Even with full audacity my 6 BA's get hit for 7k total per character with lightning storm, or epic conclusion. Now that doesn't necessarily make audacity a fail, but makes freeps just OP. But every new creep that likes to try out PvMP will get hit with 30% more damage. No chance at all.

    Together with +damage for each rank a freep gets this game gets really unbalanced.

    Also i don't play hunter since a hunter is already squishy, but i don't have max audacity, so i'm even more squishy.

    They should just nerf certain freep skills in Ettenmoors, or make the crit defense much higher on creep again. Now it's almost necessary to run 2 health corruptions and 4 crit defense...

    They should remove audacity, and simply make skills do less damage.
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  18. #18
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    bump

    I`d like to also revisit the damage reduction, because it seems to me that it should be a trait inherent to the current system gained entirely seperately or just plain automatically granted. It`s entirely flawed that you should just have to continually act as a punching bag until you've suffered enough brain lesions to grant you the all-supreme passive ability of lasting 3-4 seconds longer in todays blink-style who`s-first of getting vaporized should the zergcannon focus its ire in your direction.

    it's like dropping you into an FPS scenario where you`re in your birthday suit strapped with 20 pound iron ankleweights into a minefield and have to navigate through to get your first weapon which is a rusty spoon but at least when you`ve ineffectively pecked at someones heels with the spoon long enough there's a chance he might have been scratched and could possibly contract a non-harmful but certainly inconvenient sickness. After you've set off about 50 mines and are nigh on putting your face through the nearest drywall you find out you're as far as you can progress and it's 30% less awful but by no means suddenly amazing.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by grapez View Post
    For example wardens/Guards can tank like gods and have 15k crit defence and then in the next moment burst out tons of dps.
    You must be a creep. Armour swapping is no big deal, plus nearly no one does it (on my server).

    PS. Show me the 15k.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    You must be a creep. Armour swapping is no big deal, plus nearly no one does it (on my server).
    Why isn't it a big deal?

    And what is the significance of nearly no one doing it, how does that make it not an issue?
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Why isn't it a big deal?

    And what is the significance of nearly no one doing it, how does that make it not an issue?
    Because the difference overall won't be huge or something. You sacrifice DPS for surviveability in the start, then the other way around. After my final swap I'm on 9k morale with 8k tact mit. Impale + DS + Ravage = dead.

    My point was that he made it sound like everyone is doing it.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giliodor View Post
    You must be a creep. Armour swapping is no big deal, plus nearly no one does it (on my server).

    PS. Show me the 15k.
    You must be a Freep if you think it's "No big deal."

    We see people do it all the time on our server, and, to me, it's one of the most blatently abused/abusable things in the game. Not even counting that only Freep side can do it.

    Worse, it's one of the most "Wait, what?" things in the game. Even stances are on cooldowns. But somehow the game mechanics allow a person to swap an entire suit of armor in more or less a couple seconds. Tell me how that's even remotely reasonable?

    Yes. This is just a game. We get that. But seriously, even swapping weapons in the real world takes a couple seconds. Honestly. Try it some time. Hang two knives on your belt. Draw one. Time how long it takes you to put that one away and draw the other. Now, put on a heavy jacket, a pair of boots, a pair of gloves, pants, and a shirt. See how long it takes you to change clothes.

    Pocket items? Sure. Jewelry? Weapons? Sure. ARMOR?

    Even freaking Superman needs to find a phone booth.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by l4j View Post
    Yes. This is just a game. We get that. But seriously, even swapping weapons in the real world takes a couple seconds. Honestly. Try it some time. Hang two knives on your belt. Draw one. Time how long it takes you to put that one away and draw the other. Now, put on a heavy jacket, a pair of boots, a pair of gloves, pants, and a shirt. See how long it takes you to change clothes.
    Shoot an arrow at a wolf. Watch him

    Block.

    It.

    Then get back to me.

    PS, audacity sucks.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by l4j View Post
    [...]
    I'm all good with armour swapping disabled:P For me it's the jewelry/weapons.
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    The important thing about life is the struggle, not the triumph... Said no winner ever.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by l4j View Post
    You must be a Freep if you think it's "No big deal."

    We see people do it all the time on our server, and, to me, it's one of the most blatently abused/abusable things in the game. Not even counting that only Freep side can do it.

    Worse, it's one of the most "Wait, what?" things in the game. Even stances are on cooldowns. But somehow the game mechanics allow a person to swap an entire suit of armor in more or less a couple seconds. Tell me how that's even remotely reasonable?

    Yes. This is just a game. We get that. But seriously, even swapping weapons in the real world takes a couple seconds. Honestly. Try it some time. Hang two knives on your belt. Draw one. Time how long it takes you to put that one away and draw the other. Now, put on a heavy jacket, a pair of boots, a pair of gloves, pants, and a shirt. See how long it takes you to change clothes.

    Pocket items? Sure. Jewelry? Weapons? Sure. ARMOR?

    Even freaking Superman needs to find a phone booth.
    at no point should we cite realism as grounds for changes in a video games. that ruins things.

    that being said specific gear swaps come with their disadvantages, but the actual problem here I believe is third party programs making this option available to anyone who takes the few seconds required to install the plugin.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


 

 
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