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Thread: If only...

  1. #1
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    If only...



    The battles surging back and forth through Osgiliath instead of TA. Brave assaults up to the walls of Minas Tirith or Barad Dur. Catapults able to be fired from the walls. A 'ruin' that acts as an arena in Osgiliath for varied pvp styles. Outposts that have varied effects on the fluid environment but do not overbuff the side with higher numbers. Keeps that have a distinctive instead of a uniform, cookie-cutter feel. Instead of Rangers and Trolls we have...well perhaps we still have them. But also, in extreme cases, a release of the Gandalf or Witch King npcs. Who knows...the ideas are endless. If only there was 'something' to look forward to that took all the best the community had to suggest and the good that Turbine HAS done. I do enjoy the live map...unlike battlegrounds or instances, this is an ongoing soap opera (in more ways than one) and it's always interesting to ask 'what's going on out there?' and 'who's got the upper hand this evening?' You don't have that in instances. There's just the potential for so much more.

    Yeh there are better iterations to be had for sure. The map is hardly to scale or accurate geographically. This was just an exercise in imagination of 'what could be' using the paint program for a few hours.
    Last edited by SirAndrose; Jul 20 2013 at 03:19 PM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
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    Not sure what you mean, Joshy. 'If only...Turbine would delve into a new pvmp map with newer content' is what I was getting at.

  4. #4
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    II'm not sure I follow your logic here, BUT:

    I have always said the map needs to be a mirror image of itself to ensure fairness (distances from rez points to keeps and geographical features such as rivers and forests).

    Also, make keeps closer to your base of ops (grams or GV) much harder to take, tougher and more NPC's, so TR would be closest to gv, and a very difficult keep for creeps to take, reverse that design for lug.

    So many other ideas, so little desire to type more......
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    Is that a...? Umm...
    I think it is.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I think it is.
    /reported

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    II'm not sure I follow your logic here, BUT:

    I have always said the map needs to be a mirror image of itself to ensure fairness (distances from rez points to keeps and geographical features such as rivers and forests).

    Also, make keeps closer to your base of ops (grams or GV) much harder to take, tougher and more NPC's, so TR would be closest to gv, and a very difficult keep for creeps to take, reverse that design for lug.

    So many other ideas, so little desire to type more......
    As I said, distances aren't to scale. I didn't try to make it very accurate. THough the mechanics are interesting to delve into, for me the greater interest is pvping in the 'historical' settings I read about in the books so long ago. In looking at it, I looked at the old map of the Moors too. I was out there seldom back then but I do remember the bridge fights with the surges in momentum from OC over WTAB to TA or EC over STAB to TA.

    All your points are good ones. I'm sorry you feel little desire to discuss more ideas, but I imagine many feel that way with the stagnant nature of PVMP due to Turbine neglect. I find myself looking hard at new games and wondering if the mix of PVE and PVP can be more enjoyable. GW2 and possibly EQ Next are intriguing.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SirAndrose View Post
    Not sure what you mean, Joshy. 'If only...Turbine would delve into a new pvmp map with newer content' is what I was getting at.
    Look closely... what do you see?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I think it is.
    I'm not alone in this, good.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshy8910 View Post
    Is that a...? Umm...
    Quote Originally Posted by Squelcher View Post
    I think it is.
    O_O

    What has been seen cannot be un-seen O_O.


    @OP I like the idea.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SirAndrose View Post

    Fantastic picture! I'm not sure what most of the other comments in this thread are talking about, but I wanted to rif on strats for this map. I'll try not to be a jerk about it. I think you should head toward the river, as it seems to be the focus. (Generally, I bet most would agree it should be the focus. Probably 75%-80% of LotRO players would agree, though the other 20%-25% generally like to claim the opposite. Those people are communists. The river should be the focus.)

    I have many other things to add about strategies that focus on the river, but, well, never mind.


  11. #11
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    We'd need a new form of creep travel for a map this size though. Ithilien alone is bigger than all of the Ettenmoors put together.
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  12. #12
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    lmao reminds me of that Southpark episode when Randy drew that map and accidentally made a &&&&& shape....
    [CENTER][COLOR=#00ff00]Brandywhine[/COLOR] / [COLOR=#4b0082]Vilya[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#00ff00]Fortiscor R10[/COLOR] / [COLOR=#4b0082]Slownkite R9[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#00ff00]Beastt R7[/COLOR] /[COLOR=#4b0082] Diggaa R12[/COLOR]
    [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?561868-Warg-Build-Warg-Rotation-Warg-Guide&p=7292621#post7292621"]Warg Guide[/URL][/CENTER]

  13. #13
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    As TheStormKing said, the river is clearly the big focus here. What would be an interesting change (and force many more tactical decisions for either side) is the river itself. The books and Lotro have both made it clear it is impossible to swim in the Anduin, which would mean that bridges would become a much bigger focus than they have been. Osgiliath is home to the main bridge, however that bridge is broken. For the side who takes Osgiliath, there could be quests (rather like the oil cauldron and arrows for TA) to gather materials to fix this bridge, giving the side who owns Osgiliath a massive advantage (rather than a buff). There would be another bridge at the top of the map and the bottom of the map, and those 3 bridges would be the only way across the river, making a much more concentrated stream of fights along both shores of the river, as there is in the books. Oh yeah, and maybe switch MT (Minas Tirith ) with RC so MT is GV and RC is OR, and bring RC a little closer to the river. While I like the idea of invading the 7 levels of Minas Tirith and killing Denethor, Imrahil and Beregond to carry the Crown of Gondor or Sauron's Contact Lens to Minas Morgul, it would also feel like we would have to burn the White Tree while we were there which would be rather odd.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celedreor View Post
    As TheStormKing said, the river is clearly the big focus here. What would be an interesting change (and force many more tactical decisions for either side) is the river itself. The books and Lotro have both made it clear it is impossible to swim in the Anduin, which would mean that bridges would become a much bigger focus than they have been. Osgiliath is home to the main bridge, however that bridge is broken. For the side who takes Osgiliath, there could be quests (rather like the oil cauldron and arrows for TA) to gather materials to fix this bridge, giving the side who owns Osgiliath a massive advantage (rather than a buff). There would be another bridge at the top of the map and the bottom of the map, and those 3 bridges would be the only way across the river, making a much more concentrated stream of fights along both shores of the river, as there is in the books. Oh yeah, and maybe switch MT (Minas Tirith ) with RC so MT is GV and RC is OR, and bring RC a little closer to the river. While I like the idea of invading the 7 levels of Minas Tirith and killing Denethor, Imrahil and Beregond to carry the Crown of Gondor or Sauron's Contact Lens to Minas Morgul, it would also feel like we would have to burn the White Tree while we were there which would be rather odd.
    Hm...yeh. Though the relic spot, if there is one, should be far far away as per the current map. So perhaps making Minas Tirith the GV and making Anorien the relic spot...could be the 'Arrow' brought by the errand rider to Rohan beseeching aid. There MIGHT be clicky/travel boats too. Forces did take Cair Andros so that could be a contested crossing. Might be they'd have to simply take some liberties with crossing the Anduin. Having those choke points could stagnate the map.

  15. #15
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    The river looks like a wang.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celedreor View Post
    the river is clearly the big focus here.
    Hue hue hue.

  17. #17
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    Thumbs up Quite an interesting idea.

    It would be nice to get a new PvMP area, maybe if this would ever get made it could feature mounted combat for both sides, maybe add an evil man class or two. The map would be way too big, but maybe it could be shortened to have Ostgilliath as the center, like TA, have Cair Andros at the north, some Haradrim camp to the south as you said, but including Barad Dur would be a little too far, make Morgul like grams, and make Minas Tirith gv.

    It would be nice if turbine would make another PvMP area, but most likely they never will. Thanks for sharing the awesome idea, I hope that it will make turbine think about adding an area. Oh, and be careful next time you put a lake on top of a river, unless that was your intention, in which case you are a sick creature.
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  18. #18
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    The lake is the area of water just above the Falls of Rauros:


    Mounted combat? In the Moors? Warg Riders and Horsed Freeps? I think that would almost have to be an addition that is a choice along with the Troll and the Ranger. Widespread use would be difficult. Love the idea though. Well, I like the idea of being mounted, not of being the trampled.

    An 'evil RK' seems to be a consensus favorite for an addition. I think in no time you'd find an 'all Morgul Sorceror' raid forming on creepside.

    Your other ideas make sense as well. Imagine the 'buzz' if Turbine unveiled longterm plans to open something like this up and have community input. The flood of returning vetern PVPers would be immense. We can always hope. In the meantime, it's fun to toss around ideas.
    Last edited by SirAndrose; Jul 22 2013 at 08:12 PM.

  19. #19
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    Turbine needs to take this into consideration

    Creeps need a class equivalent to a warden. They are the most unfair class in the game to fight, they just don't die if they know what they are doing. We creeps need something close.
    As for the map, (unfortunately my phone won't let me copy paste the image of the map) if you search "map of Osgiliath" on google images scroll down till you find the purple one, at the top is Cair Andros, and at the bottom is Ithillien. I think it would make the perfect map.
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  20. #20
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    that one? Minus the Drow camp? nice map. It would not excite me so much because it is missing some legendary places. Minas Morgul, The Towers of Teeth, Barad Dur, Orodruin, The Argonath, The Crossroads with the orc head on a statue, the Pelennor, etc. I don't mean to take away from your idea. Just expressing a personal preference since this thread is about wishes.

    Weaving them all in would be difficult, granted. As someone else pointed out, the maps being rough mirror images for creep and freep is important for gameplay. I reject distance as an issue or any type of scale issue for the simple reason that the entire world is condensed. This was made clear during beta discussions when people complained how close some things were. One example was how you could see the Brandywine bridge from the Bucklebury ferry and run there in a few seconds when Sam said in the book it was twenty miles. Even in the Moors, it is somewhat laughable to see so many giant fortresses that one can run to within a few seconds. The game cuts out the in between spaces for playability.

    Don't want to get off track but you mentioned warden equivalent for creeps. I dislike the idea for a few reasons. The purpose of the warden initially was an alternative tank class. Such a class doesn't translate terribly well to Pvmp mechanics. Secondly, creepside most often refers to wardens as a 'broken' (meaning overpowered) class. Adding another broken class doesn't make sense. Addressing balance issues does. Lastly, the evil sorceror is iconic in the fantasy genre. If turbine made such a class for creeps, they could even make it a purchase only for 1k TP....they would rake in the money. The only problem would be they would have no one to fight because everyone would be making an evil RK!

    Back to the Pvmp map... when I get off my kindle and back to my comp, I will have to play with some more maps. Even if the whole thing is flinging a snowball into hell, only 'a fool's hope' as Gandalf said, the exploration of ideas is fun.

  21. #21
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    I like your initial map too, only I think it would be too big, creep mounts would help a lot though. Yes that is he map I was talking about, thanks for posting it. I thought that turbine might take it into consideration since it was smaller, maybe add Morgul as grams. The map you first suggested would be as large as all the previous maps that turbine made.

    I've just had a brilliant idea, make this area free roam, make creepside like freepside here, let the freeps and creeps clash on a larger area that way creeps can safely quest in areas like Mordor without fear of getting zerged, likewise for the freeps. The only problem I could see for this is making the lag even worse and making action hard to find, but if creeps had a GLFF esque channel they could use it much like the OOC in the Moors. That way it could become more than just PvMP, creeps could get their own quest lines to follow, it would be especially fun if creeps got mounts as well.

    As for wardens, I agree that the class is broken, they are op, enough said. Creeps need some sort of dps tank though, warleader is not close enough, they get dps as they rank, but creeps need something to even it out, that or make wardens a reasonable class, in which case most of the people who play them would be infuriated.

    You should seriously try posting a link to this thread on the suggestions page, not that it would do much good now, but as I said before, it might make turbine think about making a new PvMP area.
    Meshoot, rank 10 Blackarrow; Hazghnaz, rank 7 Reaver; Blackdingus, r6 Defiler
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  22. #22
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    I really don't think size is an issue. They could put the map I created here and put it in the Moors right now. The problem would be that the Anduin river, Minas Tirith, and Minas Morgul, Barad Guldur, and Osgiliath would likely be of similar size to the current river, GV, Grams, Lugz, and Tol Ascarnen. People likely have grander expectations. Scale and size are not a problem for any other reason. Again, you shrink the vast spaces between the points of interest, just as Turbine's done with the rest of the world.

    The bigger issue, I think, is consistency. Turbine,I am sure, already has some sketches in mind for the landscape views of these landmarks. The landscape will likely have some real space between Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul...space that would be too much for a Pvmp map. I would expect Minas Morgul to be of similar scale to the grandeur of what we saw from Dol Guldur in Mirkwood. That is too big to be just one spot in a PVMP map. And having a different presentation of either the landmark or distance between them in different parts of the same game would be a troubling inconsistency.

    More than likely, for that reason, Turbine will always want to make a PVMP map that is set away from any area they cover in PVE. I hope I am wrong.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirAndrose View Post
    I really don't think size is an issue.
    I'm glad to hear that. (I appreciate the thought you've given to this.)

    I agree that the issue with shrinking, would be can you still feel the grandeur of those places.



    So how do you keep it grand?

    (Even though they have stated there are no plans for a new PvMP area, it never hurts to help them with ideas so they have those on hand)

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmyrSelyf View Post
    I'm glad to hear that. (I appreciate the thought you've given to this.)

    I agree that the issue with shrinking, would be can you still feel the grandeur of those places.



    So how do you keep it grand?

    (Even though they have stated there are no plans for a new PvMP area, it never hurts to help them with ideas so they have those on hand)
    Sometimes I get the impression there are devs reading these ideas and shaking their heads because they know the bean counters will never give them the resources to do tackle something this ambitious.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmyrSelyf View Post
    I'm glad to hear that. (I appreciate the thought you've given to this.)

    I agree that the issue with shrinking, would be can you still feel the grandeur of those places.



    So how do you keep it grand?

    (Even though they have stated there are no plans for a new PvMP area, it never hurts to help them with ideas so they have those on hand)
    Sometimes I get the impression there are devs reading these ideas and shaking their heads because they know the bean counters will never give them the resources to do tackle something this ambitious.

 

 

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