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  1. #276
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    hey guys long time off and back!

    I think some Gondorian Ruins in the game actually make emphasis on the nature of Gondor, like for example Othanac, Annuminas and Bree (which I think is more akin to annuminas but lost the saphire looking coverings) I think that is important because like Ancient Egypt Piramids were covered in Gold and white stone, same could happen to Bree.

    Orthanac is very different because the stone was brought from Numenor or Costal Settlements, so the stone just like the stone of erech is nearly undestructible. as for Rohan I think the ruins are kind of generic but the style is definetly a mix of bree (which could be romanesque and egyptian for all we know) but the pilars stand out they look as roman in Cairn Andros.

    As for Central Gondor, now that is a good sight because its a mix of Atlantean(Annuminas), Roman and Egyptian in full glory with some elvish style for domes so yes some arabian arquitecture applies in Gondor atleast for Towers, bridges and domes.

    I like Gondor too, think of it as the Illustrious people, pretty much like the Rohirrim but definetly better stoneworkers.

  2. #277
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    Knight templar common armor, The sword sometimes was 2H or smaller Sword and Shield.

  3. #278
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    Hooded Templar Knight, possible Inspiration for Rangers of Gondor.

  4. #279
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    Cavalry of Knight Templar, possible inspiration for Cavalry of Osgiliath

  5. #280
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    Knight Templar and Norman Style Shield, possible Inspiration for different Knight Orders in Gondor




    Note Knights Templar Fought Easter Landers too, so Haradrim would be more akin to Mongol warriors or Huns.
    Last edited by Al.; Apr 04 2014 at 01:41 AM.

  6. #281
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    Mongols and Templar battle possible inspiration for Haradrim and Gondor Forces.

  7. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Note Knights Templar Fought Easter Landers too, so Haradrim would be more akin to Mongol warriors or Huns.
    Your geography has gone sadly awry again. If there was anyone in Middle-earth who was like the Huns then the Free Peoples would have considered them to be Easterlings, whereas Harad is Middle-earth's equivalent of Africa.

  8. #283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Your geography has gone sadly awry again. If there was anyone in Middle-earth who was like the Huns then the Free Peoples would have considered them to be Easterlings, whereas Harad is Middle-earth's equivalent of Africa.
    Geographic you missing everything else like always, History is more important to the context because in brings culture and arquitecture, geography is a fantasy world while important is relegated to second place.

    Harad could be Africa, if you consider Middle-Earth as Europe, but we know Rome wasn't in Europe, Mordor is a ficticious place too, hence History is more important

    Your wrong like always.

  9. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Orthanac is very different because the stone was brought from Numenor or Costal Settlements, so the stone just like the stone of erech is nearly undestructible.
    Possible but seems unlikely as the outer walls of Minas Anor (and presumably the outer walls of Minas Ithil) were also constructed out of this material. They'd need a *lot* of stone imported to make all that.
    edit: Oh and please don't make speculation out to be fact like that. It can be quite deceiving for newcomers.



    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    as for Rohan I think the ruins are kind of generic but the style is definetly a mix of bree (which could be romanesque and egyptian for all we know) but the pilars stand out they look as roman in Cairn Andros.
    Romanesque and Egyptian are two very different architectural styles. And Bree as described in the books (and seen in the game/films for that matter) is neither.



    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    As for Central Gondor, now that is a good sight because its a mix of Atlantean(Annuminas), Roman and Egyptian in full glory with some elvish style for domes so yes some arabian arquitecture applies in Gondor atleast for Towers, bridges and domes.
    Atlantean architecture is fictional and not described. Byzantine-Roman is very plausible as Tolkien explicitly compared Gondor to Byzantium. Egyptian not really.


    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Geographic you missing everything else like always, History is more important to the context because in brings culture and arquitecture, geography is a fantasy world while important is relegated to second place.
    No, quite the opposite. Geographically Middle-earth is our own earth (more specifically, Europe), but the time (history) is imaginary. Tolkien's own words. Does this make Middle-earth's history less important? Personally I don't think so, if anything it makes the history even more important because most of it is his own creation. What drives the story is the history (what came before it, since The Lord of the Rings is the end of a much longer tale that had been playing for thousands of years) and not the geography which he simply borrowed from reality.

    I am historically minded. Middle-earth is not an imaginary world. The name is the modern form (appearing in the 13th century and still in use) of middengeard, middel-erd, an ancient name for the OIKOUMENE, the abiding place of Men, the objectively real world, in use specifically opposed to imaginary worlds (as Fairyland) or unseen worlds (as Heaven or Hell). The theatre of my tale is this earth, the one in which we now live, but the historical period is imaginary.
    -- J.R.R. Tokien, Letter 184

    May I say all this is ’mythical’, and not any kind of new religion or vision. As far as I know it is merely an imaginative invention, to express, in the only way I can, some of my (dim) apprehensions of the world. All I can say is that, if it were ’history’, it would be difficult to fit the lands and events (or ’cultures’) into such evidence as we possess, archaeological or geological, concerning the nearer or remoter part of what is now called Europe; though the Shire, for instance, is expressly stated to have been in this region (I p. 12). I could have fitted things in with greater versimilitude, if the story had not become too far developed, before the question ever occurred to me. I doubt if there would have been much gain; and I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap in time between the Fall of Barad-dur and our Days is sufficient for ’literary credibility’, even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of ’pre-history’.I have, I suppose, constructed an imaginary time, but kept my feet on my own mother-earth for place. I prefer that to the contemporary mode of seeking remote globes in ’space’. However curious, they are alien, and not lovable with the love of blood-kin. Middle-earth is (by the way & if such a note is necessary) not my own invention. It is a modernization or alteration (NED ’a perversion’) of an old word for the inhabited world of Men, the OIKOUMENE: middle because thought of vaguely as set amidst the encircling Seas and (in the northern-imagination) between ice of the North and the fire of the South. O. English midden-geard, mediaeval E. middengerd, middle-erd. Many reviewers seem to assume that Middle-earth is another planet!
    -- J.R.R. Tokien, Letter 211



    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Harad could be Africa, if you consider Middle-Earth as Europe, but we know Rome wasn't in Europe,
    ...



    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Your wrong like always.
    Look closely at who's wrong.


    EDIT: added sources.
    Last edited by BirdofHermes; Apr 05 2014 at 02:28 AM.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

  10. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Geographic you missing everything else like always, History is more important to the context because in brings culture and arquitecture, geography is a fantasy world while important is relegated to second place.

    Harad could be Africa, if you consider Middle-Earth as Europe, but we know Rome wasn't in Europe, Mordor is a ficticious place too, hence History is more important

    Your wrong like always.
    Another masterpiece from the random word generator that is Al's keyboard

  11. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Geographic you missing everything else like always, History is more important to the context because in brings culture and arquitecture, geography is a fantasy world while important is relegated to second place.

    Harad could be Africa, if you consider Middle-Earth as Europe, but we know Rome wasn't in Europe, Mordor is a ficticious place too, hence History is more important

    Your wrong like always.
    In other words,

    "I need random words to make myself sound right and smart. Hope this works!"
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
    ____________________________

    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
    If a Malledhrim Soldier dies alone in the forest because of canceled quest, will it make a sound? ~Leixy

  12. #287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    hey guys long time off and back!

    I think some Gondorian Ruins in the game actually make emphasis on the nature of Gondor, like for example Othanac, Annuminas and Bree (which I think is more akin to annuminas but lost the saphire looking coverings) I think that is important because like Ancient Egypt Piramids were covered in Gold and white stone, same could happen to Bree.

    Orthanac is very different because the stone was brought from Numenor or Costal Settlements, so the stone just like the stone of erech is nearly undestructible. as for Rohan I think the ruins are kind of generic but the style is definetly a mix of bree (which could be romanesque and egyptian for all we know) but the pilars stand out they look as roman in Cairn Andros.

    As for Central Gondor, now that is a good sight because its a mix of Atlantean(Annuminas), Roman and Egyptian in full glory with some elvish style for domes so yes some arabian arquitecture applies in Gondor atleast for Towers, bridges and domes.

    I like Gondor too, think of it as the Illustrious people, pretty much like the Rohirrim but definetly better stoneworkers.
    Orthanc wasn't Gondorian when it was built. It was built by Numoerians.

    Annuminas wasn't built by Gondor either, Numoerians built it.

    Bree was built by the Kingdom of Arnor, which has long since fallen. Bree has no ties with Gondor, AFAIK.
    Did everyone get a bugged signature? My BB code doesn't work anymore
    ____________________________

    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
    If a Malledhrim Soldier dies alone in the forest because of canceled quest, will it make a sound? ~Leixy

  13. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by robbie1435 View Post
    Orthanc wasn't Gondorian when it was built. It was built by Numoerians.

    Annuminas wasn't built by Gondor either, Numoerians built it.

    Bree was built by the Kingdom of Arnor, which has long since fallen. Bree has no ties with Gondor, AFAIK.
    This is what you dont have in:

    http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Arnor

  14. #289
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    Does this look like an accurate map of Europe?

    Nope. History is Important, also Tolkien was a Historian, Scholar and lived in the UK, the shire is supposed to be UK not Norway...anyway back to topic

  15. #290
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    Different Flags and troops meet in Gondor.


    Gondor Troops
    Last edited by Al.; Apr 05 2014 at 04:09 PM.

  16. #291
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  17. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Does this look like an accurate map of Europe?

    Nope. History is Important, also Tolkien was a Historian, Scholar and lived in the UK, the shire is supposed to be UK not Norway...anyway back to topic
    Just because the resemblance was always intended to be approximate doesn't mean it's of no significance. Tolkien expressly intended to write tales with the 'air' of northern Europe, he said, and that likeness extends in an approximate way to the geograpical situation. Since history is tied to geography in all manner of ways, you can't have one such intended approximate resemblance without the other. That is why Middle-earth is where it is, why there are landmasses both to the east and south of it, because Europe does. And as Harad is 'the South' and Rhun 'the East', and 'the Far South' apparently also features both elephants (or at least an invented larger-than-life variety) and Men with black skin, as well as lands where the sun gives great heat, there's only one reasonable conclusion as to what Harad is meant to resemble. Umbar, with its corsairs, recalls the Barbary Coast of North Africa. An invasion force bringing elephants recalls Hannibal's exploits against Rome, and Carthage was likewise on the North African coast. These aren't even subtle borrowings, they're quite blatant.

    Likewise, when Tolkien talks about the sort of people who appear from out of the East, they sound familiar because they're not entirely invented, and resemble something historically real (and if you knew your history, you would have spotted those references by now and not be rabbiting on about people like the Mongols who don't feature, not even approximately). Both the historical and geographical semblance are being exploited to give a sense of place, a familiar Euro-centrism. And that naturally extends to Gondor, too, cast as it is in a familiar role.

  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU View Post
    Just because the resemblance was always intended to be approximate doesn't mean it's of no significance. Tolkien expressly intended to write tales with the 'air' of northern Europe, he said, and that likeness extends in an approximate way to the geograpical situation. Since history is tied to geography in all manner of ways, you can't have one such intended approximate resemblance without the other. That is why Middle-earth is where it is, why there are landmasses both to the east and south of it, because Europe does. And as Harad is 'the South' and Rhun 'the East', and 'the Far South' apparently also features both elephants (or at least an invented larger-than-life variety) and Men with black skin, as well as lands where the sun gives great heat, there's only one reasonable conclusion as to what Harad is meant to resemble. Umbar, with its corsairs, recalls the Barbary Coast of North Africa. An invasion force bringing elephants recalls Hannibal's exploits against Rome, and Carthage was likewise on the North African coast. These aren't even subtle borrowings, they're quite blatant.

    Likewise, when Tolkien talks about the sort of people who appear from out of the East, they sound familiar because they're not entirely invented, and resemble something historically real (and if you knew your history, you would have spotted those references by now and not be rabbiting on about people like the Mongols who don't feature, not even approximately). Both the historical and geographical semblance are being exploited to give a sense of place, a familiar Euro-centrism. And that naturally extends to Gondor, too, cast as it is in a familiar role.
    Now your not making any sense, Geography only is linked to "an extent" trying to find things that arent there is not geography.

    Tolkien intended it to be "reminiscent" of Europe=True, does it means its Europe? Hell No its Middle earth.

    Your posts qualify as insanity.

  19. #294
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    Tree of Gondor in 3D

  20. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post

    I am historically minded. Middle-earth is not an imaginary world. The name is the modern form (appearing in the 13th century and still in use) of middengeard, middel-erd, an ancient name for the OIKOUMENE, the abiding place of Men, the objectively real world, in use specifically opposed to imaginary worlds (as Fairyland) or unseen worlds (as Heaven or Hell). The theatre of my tale is this earth, the one in which we now live, but the historical period is imaginary.
    -- J.R.R. Tokien, Letter 184

    May I say all this is ’mythical’, and not any kind of new religion or vision. As far as I know it is merely an imaginative invention, to express, in the only way I can, some of my (dim) apprehensions of the world. All I can say is that, if it were ’history’, it would be difficult to fit the lands and events (or ’cultures’) into such evidence as we possess, archaeological or geological, concerning the nearer or remoter part of what is now called Europe; though the Shire, for instance, is expressly stated to have been in this region (I p. 12). I could have fitted things in with greater versimilitude, if the story had not become too far developed, before the question ever occurred to me. I doubt if there would have been much gain; and I hope the, evidently long but undefined, gap in time between the Fall of Barad-dur and our Days is sufficient for ’literary credibility’, even for readers acquainted with what is known or surmised of ’pre-history’.I have, I suppose, constructed an imaginary time, but kept my feet on my own mother-earth for place. I prefer that to the contemporary mode of seeking remote globes in ’space’. However curious, they are alien, and not lovable with the love of blood-kin. Middle-earth is (by the way & if such a note is necessary) not my own invention. It is a modernization or alteration (NED ’a perversion’) of an old word for the inhabited world of Men, the OIKOUMENE: middle because thought of vaguely as set amidst the encircling Seas and (in the northern-imagination) between ice of the North and the fire of the South. O. English midden-geard, mediaeval E. middengerd, middle-erd. Many reviewers seem to assume that Middle-earth is another planet!
    -- J.R.R. Tokien, Letter 211




    ...




    Look closely at who's wrong.


    EDIT: added sources.
    All your sources are jacked up, you only took the convenient parts, sorry but your are wrong, Tolkien went to great lenght to compare Gondor to many cultures not just Bizantinium, like Venice, Normands, Egypt to count a few.

    Everything thing I said can be verified, to know Im saying the truth. So your post are lacking...

  21. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    All your sources are jacked up, you only took the convenient parts, sorry but your are wrong, Tolkien went to great lenght to compare Gondor to many cultures not just Bizantinium, like Venice, Normands, Egypt to count a few.

    Everything thing I said can be verified, to know Im saying the truth. So your post are lacking...
    At least he gave sources. Give us a few links where Tolkien says or even hints that Gondor was inspired by the Knights Templar or any of the other civilisations or cultures you have named.

  22. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfhelm View Post
    At least he gave sources. Give us a few links where Tolkien says or even hints that Gondor was inspired by the Knights Templar or any of the other civilisations or cultures you have named.
    I do my research, you like any of the recent guys fail at it hard.

  23. #298
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    My last post:


  24. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    Now your not making any sense, Geography only is linked to "an extent" trying to find things that arent there is not geography.

    Tolkien intended it to be "reminiscent" of Europe=True, does it means its Europe? Hell No its Middle earth.

    Your posts qualify as insanity.
    All I'm essentially saying is that Middle-earth is reminiscent of Europe, and that extends to its geographical relationships so that the lands to the south of it are reminiscent of Africa (as are the people and animals from there), and that a similar sort of relationship holds for the east as well. The little references Tolkien makes aren't coded in the least, they're really obvious. (Like the Haradrim bringing war-elephants with them). Within that there are some other things which are individually reminiscent of places in a broad sense, e.g. if Umbar had resident 'corsairs' then that in itself is reminiscent of North African ports like Tunis, home port to the infamous Barbary Corsairs back in the day. All that means in practice is that I imagine Umbar looking like that (dry, dusty, mud-brick architecture, palm trees, camels, that sort of thing), not that it 'is' any specific place. And I can't for the life of me see how that's supposed to be insane... what on earth is wrong with you, that you say things like that?

  25. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al. View Post
    All your sources are jacked up, you only took the convenient parts, sorry but your are wrong, Tolkien went to great lenght to compare Gondor to many cultures not just Bizantinium, like Venice, Normands, Egypt to count a few.

    Everything thing I said can be verified, to know Im saying the truth. So your post are lacking...
    Sources please. I'm not taking seriously anyone who claims Rome isn't in Europe without at least some quotes to back up your statements.
    [I]In the sea without lees standeth the Bird of Hermes.
    [/I][I]When all his feathers be from him gone, He standeth still here as a stone.
    Here is now both white and red, And all so the stone to quicken the dead[/I][I].
    The Bird of Hermes is my name, Eating my wings to make me tame.[/I]

 

 
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