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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Stricter Naming Rules

    Ok, I have been playing for quite a while and I've seen some weird names, but today I saw someone who's name was Potthead. I think this is ridiculous that people can make their names like this. There's a kin called PIE as well, really? Come on. Why can't players make an appropriate name and a realistic Kinship name. Names are important in a game like this. When someone makes a name so stupid, it kills a small part of the game. I think that people who have said name should have the option to change it to an appropriate name or a name will be chosen for them. It sort of ticks me off when you see some good legitimate players and then some goofball who makes a stupid name to be funny.
    Last edited by Hadoril; Jul 10 2013 at 10:24 PM.

  2. #2
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    I remember quite awhile back there was a stricter more enforced policy on the naming of your character, however, that was a few years ago. Since then I just start adding people with moronic names to my Ignore list when I see them either in person or in the chat channels.

  3. #3
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    I don't agree, because its really not that big of a deal in the long run. And also, how do you propose to enforce these stricter rules?
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  4. #4
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    If you care about names that much, play on an RP Encouraged or Enforced server. Naming conventions are stricter there, and names like Potato and Fuzzi can be reported. (Potthead can be reported on any server.)
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by True_Ranger View Post
    ... There's a kin called PIE as well, really?
    Now if only they could convince us that their kin name was an acronym for Proto-Indo-European, a term Tolkien would have used a lot in his nonfiction, and which was what I first though of, seeing it ....

    But no. It is too much to hope for, that a kinship of philologists would have found each other in Middle-earth.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone
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  6. #6
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    First, by actually putting the names in the OP, the post is violating Forum Rules.

    There is no need for stricter naming rules. There is a need to actually enforce the naming rules that exist. The specific name being objected to certainly appears to violate the existing naming rules. I think it can be generally agreed that it is a drug reference.

    Turbine has stated (I think it was either Sapience or Celestrata) that they do not act on a single report of a naming rules violation. Personally, I think that policy, if it is the *only* policy on the subject has a certain, shall we say, lack of sense. If it is not immediately clear that a name is in violation (may be on the margins, could be read in multiple ways, etc.), then it's a good rule. If the name just jumps out and says "rules violation!" it is a very poor policy. As an example, I have seen a name in use that is the name of one of the members of The Fellowship with a single, "null" character added to the end. Imagine if it were, for a fake example, Gandalfz. How many reports should it take before such a name is changed?

  7. #7
    I agree Op, this isn't WoW this is actually an extremely nice game with a great community before f2p hit anyways, then all the morons migrated from WoW and what not. But this is a more mature MMO than most and the community used to be quite respectful and have really good names that went with the lore. The people with stupid names are kids that are bored and their parents won't pay for their WoW addiction. I agree with the other poster saying to add them to ignore list.

  8. #8
    If you care about the names of players, play on RP enforced servers, like Laurelin. Also stop being a pessimist and worrying about other people and what they name their characters. They paid for the game, they have the right to name their characters however they want as long as it follows the policy.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaiLbuS View Post
    If you care about the names of players, play on RP enforced servers, like Laurelin. Also stop being a pessimist and worrying about other people and what they name their characters. They paid for the game, they have the right to name their characters however they want as long as it follows the policy.
    But what about when the names DON'T follow the policy? Yes they paid for the game (maybe), but they also broke the rules. There are loads of people lately on my servers who have names that are very close to Legolas (why does every hunter need a Legolas variant for a name, seriously???), Gandalf, Boromir, Faramir, Elrond, Gil-Galad, etc. And I'm talking about names that are one letter off of those names and merely create a homonym, which explicitly violates the policy.

    The rules exist for a reason. They shouldn't require x number of reports before they are enforced. They should be enforced the very first time they are reported, or if it is decided that the rules are too strict, or unnecessary, or whatever, the rules should be changed accordingly. If you have rules, they should be enforced every time, no excuses. If you don't want those rules, get rid of them. Otherwise, why make any rules at all?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TinDragon View Post
    If you care about names that much, play on an RP Encouraged or Enforced server. Naming conventions are stricter there, and names like Potato and Fuzzi can be reported. (Potthead can be reported on any server.)
    The rules for character names are only stricter on the three European RP servers: Laurelin, Belegaer and Estel. The RP encouraged server, Landroval, has the same naming rules as all the other, non-RP, servers.
    Last edited by MrWarg; Jul 10 2013 at 11:58 PM.

  11. #11
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    How would Turbine do this? What about the players that have been here for 6 years with names that are not lore appropriate but fit within the naming guidelines, meaning non profane or naming after popular icons, like Gandalf or Spock or Dumbledore.

    How about my alt kin that is in the sig below, "Law Office of Smeagol and Gamgee?"

    How do you explain to someone that has a 6 year old character whose name does not violate the naming guidelines their name is no longer valid?

    Heck, I have Nymphonic, Nymphania, Nymphahendricks(my minnie) and Nymphaclepto(my burg). Those are no lore appropriate but they are years old.

    No, I am against this suggestion in the strongest possible way.

    /not signed


    Ok, I made sure I copied this post before hitting submit, and lo and behold I got logged out. Again. I'm really tired of this.
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  12. #12
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    whats so bad with our names

    example of my names:
    bubuthisisnotmadness - warden
    bubusthicklongbanner - captain
    bubucrazycatlady - lore-master
    bubulovesbeingbehind - burglar
    bubuplayingonehanded - hunter
    bubuhealer - minstrel



    we choose not to play on an RP server so we could show off our stupid names and be relaxed the role-playing side.

    we could go round in circles trying to find "appropriate" names for lotr and have massive lore debates. but the funny thing is I've found almost all the names I used from the gift my sister bought me (The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth) and I'm pretty sure turbine has many names barred so they can use them later, so they don't release a boss call bohbashum and notice a player has the same name... a little iffy.

    if you want strict names, join an RP server and report names you don't like. those servers are very strict with names and you can even get a forced name change for anything to close to the main lotr characters like frobo or sneagul.
    Last edited by bohbashum; Jul 11 2013 at 01:02 AM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by True_Ranger View Post
    Ok, I have been playing for quite a while and I've seen some weird names, but today I saw someone who's name was Potthead. I think this is ridiculous that people can make their names like this. There's a kin called PIE as well, really? Come on. Why can't players make an appropriate name and a realistic Kinship name. Names are important in a game like this. When someone makes a name so stupid, it kills a small part of the game. I think that people who have said name should have the option to change it to an appropriate name or a name will be chosen for them. It sort of ticks me off when you see some good legitimate players and then some goofball who makes a stupid name to be funny.
    First off, I think PIE would be a perfectly wonderful name for a hobbit kin!

    From what I recall, the GMs were very strict about names during the first couple of years. Silly names were never prohibited even then, but names containing racial slurs, profanity, sexual innuendo, or most commonly a reference to a real or literary person quickly received a mandatory Rename. Although all the other categories are still prohibited, the last 3-4 years has seen a lot of laxity in allowing names of real or literary figures.

    Unless it's an RP server I don't think a name should be forbidden just because it would never be found in Tolkien. Certainly my minstrel's name Karaoke wouldn't fit, but it's just so perfect a name for a minstrel. My hobbit hunter is named Yarrowroot, certainly appropriate to Middle Earth, but my Warden Rawrden, probably not as much.

  14. #14
    There are two levels of naming rules.

    First level works one all servers, and says, that no rude, inflammatory, sexually denigrating, racially offensive names are allowed. Also, (c) and (tm) names are forbidden, so no to Superman, Batman and other superheroes. Same rule also goes you should not use names of famous persons, so BarackObama, Margaretthatcher, Iosifstalin and Hitler are off. Lastly, one-letter derivatives of the canonical names are forbidden too. Though, there is lot of leniecy in enforcing this last rule.

    Second level is added on the three servers marked as RolePlay servers. a short historical lesson. It was made by the CodeMasters, the EU-providing severice operators, when the game started. Turbine newer did make a RP server of their own, only because there were players that wanted to get better immersion results and they named it unofficial RP server, Landroval got its RP-encouraged status. When F2P and migration brougt al servers under Turbine again, there was a lot of discussion what will happen with extra rules for PR servers, and will Landroval profit of same or not. In the end, Turbine choose least problematic variation - Laurelin, Estel and Belegaer kept their protected status, Landroval got inbetween status and rest of servers stayed as they were.

    So in these three RP marked servers (but not Landroval) you could get forced rename if you go by silly and not-lore-appropriate names, like Mckiller Ipownya.

    Lastly, there is no naming brigade in Turbine services, patrolling servers and checking if names are breaking the rule. The initiation of process is left for the players themselves. If you see name that breaks the naming rules, you have option to report it. GM will check the tickets, investigate, and take some or no action.
    .
    Thank you, Turbine, for listening and giving us an opt-out of FE! Good work!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whart View Post
    But what about when the names DON'T follow the policy? Yes they paid for the game (maybe), but they also broke the rules. There are loads of people lately on my servers who have names that are very close to Legolas (why does every hunter need a Legolas variant for a name, seriously???), Gandalf, Boromir, Faramir, Elrond, Gil-Galad, etc. And I'm talking about names that are one letter off of those names and merely create a homonym, which explicitly violates the policy.
    Here are the actual rules:
    Proper names and places or close facsimiles thereof, from the story characters or non-player characters (NPCs) introduced in the fiction of Lord of the Rings Online.

    Fantasy or non-fantasy names from popular culture or media.
    Sexually explicit, defamatory, obscene, racially or ethnically offensive names or slang.
    Names of historical or religious significance.
    Trademarked names of products, goods, materials or services.
    Common names, slang or references to drug related substances, culture or paraphernalia.
    Names containing ranks, titles or denotation of power.
    Names causing harm, mockery or imitation of Lord of the Rings Online players or NPCs, in addition to Turbine, Inc. employees, past or present.
    Misspelled variations or homonyms of any of the above rules.
    The relevant clauses have been bolded.

    The names you have listed would all violate the actual rules, even if modified.

    The rules exist for a reason. They shouldn't require x number of reports before they are enforced. They should be enforced the very first time they are reported, or if it is decided that the rules are too strict, or unnecessary, or whatever, the rules should be changed accordingly. If you have rules, they should be enforced every time, no excuses. If you don't want those rules, get rid of them. Otherwise, why make any rules at all?
    That's just calling for "x" to have a value of "1"...and in the sorts of cases you cited, I agree.

    There are really only a few of different generic "classes" of names that violate the rules. What they boil down to are (1) anything from Tolkien's text, (2) anything that might risk a lawsuit from a rights holder, (3) anything some noticeable fraction of the player base would find objectionable, (4) anything that would endanger the "T" rating of the game.

    What should *probably* be done is to permit a "lack of action" appeal on name reports, with a requirement that such an appeal document the reason for the appeal with at least hyperlinks to material supporting the claim, and citing the specific rule under which the appeal is being made. At the very least, anyone reviewing such an appeal should be required to follow the links to assess the reasonableness of the claim of rules violation.

    There is a whole set of characters that I have seen that are the names of characters from a quite popular cartoon book series. They just don't happen to come from a *US* series, so I think the GMs are failing to follow up with this obvious violation because (a) while it's "popular culture", it isn't the individual *GMs* popular culture, and (b) if any review has taken place, no one thinks that a European cartoonist is likely to sue. If a suit were to be filed, it would be all the worse for Turbine, since they have actually been notified of the issue and can't plead ignorance.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWarg View Post
    The rules for character names are only stricter on the three European RP servers: Laurelin, Belegaer and Estel. The RP encouraged server, Landroval, has the same naming rules as all the other, non-RP, servers.
    Yes, on Landroval you can name your toon nearly anything, as long as it's not profane nor violates a trademark. Trust me I've played there a few years

    I sympathize with the OP a little -- when I first started to play LOTRO I too as a little miffed by some of the names that one would never see in middle-earth. Then I met a player named "Battlestar." The coolest person, I really enjoyed grouping and chatting with them. Though we never became friends it made me realize that real people play this game who may be kind and helpful, but may not be so obsessed with the lore that every name of theirs is lore-correct. So I've become a lot more tolerant.

    If it helps, I try to pretend that a name that doesn't jive with the lore hasn't been translated into the toon-I'm-playing language yet. So my elf doesn't really know what "Homeboy" means in elvish.

    I'm actually a little afraid of rolling a toon on a roleplaying enforced server -- I'm worried that even a name like "Morforys" would get reported for not being Tolkien enough.
    other favorite middle-earth games: The One Ring RPG by Cubicle 7; LotR: The Card Game by FFG; Hobbit/LotR Strategy Battle Game by GW

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymphonic View Post
    How would Turbine do this? What about the players that have been here for 6 years with names that are not lore appropriate but fit within the naming guidelines, meaning non profane or naming after popular icons, like Gandalf or Spock or Dumbledore.
    "Not lore appropriate" isn't an issue off an RP or RP/E server. There are specific rules govening each of your examples.

    As for the long time use of a name... I don't buy that excuse. It just means that someone got away with violating the rules for a period of time before getting "caught". You break the rules, you take the risk. The results may happen soon or late, but the risk of getting caught at it is always there.

    How about my alt kin that is in the sig below, "Law Office of Smeagol and Gamgee?"
    *I* have no objections to that. The "Gamgee" part should be in the clear. It's a family name and LotR mentions at least two members of that family, so one presumes there are more. We only know of one "Smeagol", so a good case can be made that that part, and by inference, the whole kin name violates the rules.

    This is not to say that someone might report it for a variety of reasons, but it is a good example of a case that should require more that one report.

    How do you explain to someone that has a 6 year old character whose name does not violate the naming guidelines their name is no longer valid?
    First, I would take a close look at the name rules to be sure that they are correct that there is no violation. Second, I would suggest filing an appeal if they can--objectively--show that the name is in the clear. Note that when I say "objectively" I am ruling out convoluted special pleading. If there is an obvious and common use of the name that is covered by the rules, then claiming that they meant an unusual and very rare meaning is a pretty clear attempt to avoid getting called on what the almost certainly meant.

    Heck, I have Nymphonic, Nymphania, Nymphahendricks(my minnie) and Nymphaclepto(my burg). Those are no lore appropriate but they are years old.
    And on a "normal" server, they present no problems that I can see.

    No, I am against this suggestion in the strongest possible way.
    Its not so much that I am against the OPs suggestion, that I think we need to see what actual enforcement of the existing rules looks like before trying to tighten them and still not enforce the rules. The OP is, I think, barking up the wrong tree...but not for the reasons that you have stated.

  18. #18
    Personally, with the exception of the RP servers, I would hate to see an overly strict application of the naming policy. One of the fun parts for me has always been seeing the creative names that players come up with even if not lore appropriate. And seriously, how many more dwarves do we need whose name starts with Thor- ?

    Some of the best names have probably been borderline since they play off popular culture somehow. Possibly my favorite kin name was Blood Bath and Beyond. Amazingly creative, but close enough to the chain store's name as to be a possible violation.

    In addition, if naming rules were applied over-strictly, Turbine itself might not pass. Moor cowbell and Saffron's Kiss are both pop cultural references and therefore not strictly lore-appropriate, but I would say add a little to the fun of the game. Being a huge Firefly fan, I really enjoyed that reference.

  19. #19
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    The three RP servers would meet the OP's requirements, but Landroval does not. I've been trying to move to Laurelin from Landroval since U.S. customers have been allowed, but the lack of population in my timezone makes it difficult. I'd love to see Turbine do something like this:

    1. Drop the essentially meaningless "RP Encouraged" tag from Landroval. Nothing is enforced beyond basic server TOS.
    2. Provide one-time free or afforable transfers from Landroval to Laurelin, preferably for all characters on the server.
    3. Merge some of the struggling smaller servers into Landroval to replenish the population.

  20. #20
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    Agreed

    yea i find it pretty offensive sometimes and i think they should change it

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoftheRealm View Post
    Personally, with the exception of the RP servers, I would hate to see an overly strict application of the naming policy. One of the fun parts for me has always been seeing the creative names that players come up with even if not lore appropriate. And seriously, how many more dwarves do we need whose name starts with Thor- ?
    IIRC, Poul Anderson mentions the naming problem he had when writing "Hrolf Kraaki's Saga". It is desirable in writing to keep character names distinct so that readers can keep them straight. Since Anderson was working from bits and pieces of old sagas, he ran into a problem that far too many of the character names he needed to use started with "Hr...." and (again, IIRC) he apologized for this in his foreword.

    Some of the best names have probably been borderline since they play off popular culture somehow. Possibly my favorite kin name was Blood Bath and Beyond. Amazingly creative, but close enough to the chain store's name as to be a possible violation.
    That is a good one, and you're right that it could be considered close. It would probably take an IP lawyer to decide if it's too close to the store name to be allowed.

    In addition, if naming rules were applied over-strictly, Turbine itself might not pass. Moor cowbell and Saffron's Kiss are both pop cultural references and therefore not strictly lore-appropriate, but I would say add a little to the fun of the game. Being a huge Firefly fan, I really enjoyed that reference.
    Personally, I wouldn't miss either of those, and not just because they are external references.

    It is also a good idea to keep in mind that there is a rather large space between "lore appropriate" and "violates naming rules". Even commonly used modern names fit in there. My own surname would not, I think, be in any way lore appropriate, but I don't think it could be construed as violating the published naming rules.

  22. #22
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    I respect the posting writer's opinion and do agree some of the names I see are quite offensive.
    But... some Tolkien names could be banned if we are too strict. Treebeard (sounds like a noob name to me), Shadowfax (they didn't have faxes back then), Barliman Butterbur (butter what?), Wormtongue (gosh is that from a modern anime show?), Farmer Maggot (reported), Fatty Lumpkin (Tom Bombadil's pony, and could be offensive to people with weight problems).

    When my brothers and I watched the Hobbit movie 1/3 and the topic of golf being invented after a hobbit knocking an orc's head off at the battle of the greenfields. It sounded so silly to them they were shocked when they found it IS a Tolkien idea.

    I respect people who do want more seriousness in the game. I just do appreciate the freedom to have some creativity in naming our characters.

    Plus even seriously named characters in Tolkien's books sometimes had silly nicknames by others. Deep relationships often lead us to use somewhat silly nicknames with people we find most endearing.
    Last edited by IttleBubba; Jul 12 2013 at 12:23 AM.
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  23. #23
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    For the most part, I don't even notice all the stupid/obnoxious names many characters have in the game, because I've turned them off. I don't display anything at all over people's heads, although I certainly look at them when I'm interested simply by selecting them or mousing over them. I've also moved most of the "public" chat channels to a different tab... again, something I look at when I'm in the mood, but not all the time.

    That might seem "anti-social", but it really isn't. I talk with friends and kinmates, and I interact with the people nearby (because /say is turned on for me in every tab). If some moron is annoying everyone in the area with obnoxious political/religious/whatever speech, I simply move away, and voila! No more moron (unless I happen to switch over to my "public" chat tab).

    To the extent that I actually pay attention to character names, I treat them as "useful self-labeling". In my 15 years playing these games, I've found a high correlation between obnoxious/stupid/immature character names and obnoxious/stupid/immature players behind them... high enough that I'll sometimes use it to avoid interacting with such players. Have I misjudged some players? I'm sure I have. But I really don't want to spend my time with someone who names himself "Tinywiminrhot", and there are plenty of great people who don't use such names.

    Khafar

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_toad View Post
    Yes, on Landroval you can name your toon nearly anything, as long as it's not profane nor violates a trademark. Trust me I've played there a few years

    I sympathize with the OP a little -- when I first started to play LOTRO I too as a little miffed by some of the names that one would never see in middle-earth. Then I met a player named "Battlestar." ...If it helps, I try to pretend that a name that doesn't jive with the lore hasn't been translated into the toon-I'm-playing language yet. So my elf doesn't really know what "Homeboy" means in elvish.
    Or you could take it the other way, and your elf just calls his friend Battlestar "Gilvaeth" instead - which would be lore-appropriate, grammatical Sindarin, keep the meaning of "Battlestar" and be a nice nod to historical Welsh mythology all at the same time.

    I'm actually a little afraid of rolling a toon on a roleplaying enforced server -- I'm worried that even a name like "Morforys" would get reported for not being Tolkien enough.
    I play on Laurelin, and can't imagine "Morforys" being a problem. We do like an immersive environment, but are also pretty relaxed. as long as you aren't trying to get away with "Legololz" you are likely fine. I will personally admit that the terrible tweens in the Spring Festival hedge maze made me really, really want to make a Hobbit named "Yolo".

    I don't think we need stricter rules. I do think we do however need a clear sense that the rules do apply.
    Last edited by Aestivan; Jul 12 2013 at 01:27 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by phaiLbuS View Post
    If you care about the names of players, play on RP enforced servers, like Laurelin. Also stop being a pessimist and worrying about other people and what they name their characters. They paid for the game, they have the right to name their characters however they want as long as it follows the policy.
    To quote some of the folk in the solo/raid threads..this is a mmoRPg...so therefore all servers are RP servers...*whistles innocently, puts on his helmet and ducks into his trench*

    Seriously though like someone else pointed out i dont have all names on, we dont have floaty names over our heads (unless you work in hospitality and have one of those really annoying "Hi Im suchandsuch" badges *groans*))

    Should we be free to choose a name? YES!
    Should that name be lore abideing? Yes....
    Should that name be Silly? Yes...err..no...uhm what kind of silly?...
    Should that name be offensive? Well no certainly not
    Should we be free to choose a name?...hang on i thought I answered that..oh wait hmm
    Inside every old person is a young person wondering what just happened

 

 
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