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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008

    Erebor T1 3mans are too hard for me :(

    I tried running these a couple weeks ago. The first one I ran was T1 Iorbar's Peak at level 45 with a Minstrel (me), Guardian, and DPS Lore-master (all level 45-47). Pretty much a trinity group (tank, heal, dps). We wiped repeatedly, but eventually finished.

    A few days later I tried the other Erebor 3-mans with a different group: 50 Guardian, 49 Hunter, 54 Lore-master (me). Not a trinity because we didn't really have a healer, just what I could do with Beacon of Hope. We started with a T1 lvl 50 Webs of Scuttledells and did fine for the trash, but the first boss was awful. We didn't even get him halfway down before we wiped. We retreated and tried a couple more times, but it was clear that there was no way we were gonna get him down without heals.

    So we tried a T1 lvl 49 Seat of the Great Goblin. Again, all was well until the first boss. The troll annihilated us without heals. After the first wipe there, we decided to just do skirmishes and all use herbalist healers.

    Now, I feel like I'm a fairly competent player. I don't min/max, but I know what all my skills do, and try to use them in the most efficient way for how the fight is going. My toons were adequately geared for their level, but it just seems like the new 3-mans are out of reach unless we have a tank AND healer, which makes the group make-up REALLY restrictive. So I was surprised to stumble upon this quote from JWBarry yesterday in the 20 questions post (emphasis mine):

    Small Fellowship we tune to need a tank OR a healer, but try to avoid requiring a trinity, even within challenge level difficulty.
    If that's the case, then what the heck are we doing wrong that we can't get through a T1 3-man?
    MINSTREL and member of the vocal minority

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Did you pay attention to the fight mechanics? Both fights have adds spawn at intervals, and even a trinity group is hard-pressed if they keep focussing the boss instead of dealing with the adds. The troll also has other mechanics you have to pay attention to, like the pieces of ceiling coming down and damaging you (pretty lethal for light armour classes, and nothing to laugh at for mediums either) when he starts pounding on the floor.

    The seat of the great goblin is an instance where a lot of the fight mechanics is due to different buffs and abilities of the mobs. Take a look at the goblins and wargs you fight along the way, and you will find that each type of mob has different buffs and/or hands out different debuffs that need taking care of. Just mowing down mobs like you can do in instances like school and library doesn't necessarily work here.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Mostly Middle Earth
    The Erebor instances require 'technique', not just the 3 mans, but most of them.
    Know the technique and all of them are very doable on T1 at any level with pretty much any group.

    Do a search on the forums, there are quite a few good guides to these (and other) instances, or find someone who has done them before to run them with you.

    A couple of tips for all the instances though are...
    Watch out for tactical damage, this will kill you quickly.
    Watch out for AoE squares on the ground indicating falling debris/rocks etc.
    Ensure everyone knows the 'kill order', i.e. which types of mobs to kill in what order.
    Turn on target assist/skill forwarding to ensure everyone (except any crowd control) are all focusing their damage on the same mob; if everyone is focusing on different mobs then the distribution of damage wont be enough to kill everything before you wipe.

    Good luck.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Tuning for scaled instances is probably focused for level-cap, and it's quite possible at cap to run Goblin T2C with just a cappy healing (can't say for Scuttledells as challenge is basically impossible with the graphics bugs). I don't know how the scaling algorithm works exactly, but it probably doesn't account for the massive differences in gear quality you can get at certain points (mostly level 75 and 85), so it doesn't surprise me that running instances below level cap seems to be much harder than at level cap.
    A level cap group with a fully geared tank (esp. if warden) can run some 3-mans without any external heals at all. At lower levels that's just not possible as you'll never achieve that type of defensive stats and are lacking some relevant skills.
    Used to play: 85 Champ / Captain / Runekeeper / Guardian, Guild Master of everything but cooking.
    Playing now: Hellcat / King Tiger / GW Panther / IS / KV-5 / M4 Sherman and more

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Meldos shed
    just to give you some perspective. Some people 3man 12man raids (not me lol). just a cool video.

    argio r11 burglar | trytofarmme r10 reaver | trytoloveme r10 spider | ikissedafreep r10 blackarrow | roargh r9 warleader | trytocatchme r9 warg |

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    The middle
    The Erebor 3 mans are definitely more about tactics than just having the trinity - as someone else already said. I do think having a tank/healer/dps set-up makes it easier, but they are doable with off-healers and off tanks.

    Once you have the mechanics figured out - they will be much much easier.

    For Scuttledells for example - for the first boss - the trick is in how you pull the groups. Dealing with them one at a time makes it super easy (once you get it down). Etc. I'm sure there is at least one thread on how to use this strategy. Same with the last boss - look for threads here or ask for someone in your kin or glff who can run it with you and show you how to do it.

    Goblin Town is tricky - it's a longer run and you really need a target assist and to have a plan on how to handle mobs, pulls and bosses. I know there are guides/tips because we did a lot of looking around for tips on some of the end bosses (three in succession) to get it down.

    This group of 3mans is definitely about strategy more than just brute dps and heals. Which is really good prep for the Erebor raids. In most cases these raids are more about mitigations and coordination than straight up highest morale, highest dps and highest heals. The fights are long and require everyone to know their role and how to work together.

    Best of luck to you - once you get these 3 mans down they are actually a lot of fun.
    At home on Nimrodel for 4 years.
    Hadleighy/champ/100 (main), Brynnraen/guard/100 (retired main) , Zarefina/mini/100 (solo), Hazriel/LM/88, Rachlarien/RK/83, Brynreign/Beorn/71, Rudbekia/burg/34, Aysawen/capt/36, Haddley/hunter/16

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. I have done Bells of Dale and all the Erebor raids at cap. This was my first introduction to the 3-mans though. I will try to find some guides for these as we basically just went in blind.
    MINSTREL and member of the vocal minority

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by arghh View Post
    just to give you some perspective. Some people 3man 12man raids (not me lol). just a cool video.
    Yes, impressive video (I don't understand how they "suddently" receive so low damage after their first tries)

    Also 2 skraids are even soloable now : Necro and Amon Sul (received damage seems bugged because others skraids like Gondamon or Moria ones are, logically, impossible...)
    Last edited by Castorix; Jul 10 2013 at 01:16 PM.

  9. #9
    Iorbar's Peak is the easiest of the Erebor 3 mans to run with an odd low-level group. The damage is generally low and I have healed a burglar tanking on my loremaster. it's one of those instances you can run with no tank and no healer.

    Webs of the Scuttedells is a little harder. A loremaster can heal a tank through the fist boss (if you pull him down the stairs so you don't have to deal with the adds), but you will struggle against the spider. Fortunately, you can run straight back when you die, so you can always just throw wave after wave of heroes at the spider until it dies.

    Seat of the Great Goblin is even harder, and I can easily see you having problems healing that on your loremaster. That instance is much easier with a healer, but no tank, than it is with a tank, but no healer.

    If you like running low level instances, don't limit yourself to the 3 man. I have duoed Thadur on-level (60ish) with a burglar while healing on my loremaster. Sambrog is also pretty easy. The Maze is harder; you'll need a kiter for that.

  10. #10
    One thought, where is your group with virtues. Around the levels you are mentioning most should/could easily be in the 5 - 8 range. Stack those that will be a bit more defensive (phys/Tac mits, etc).

    For Scutdells on first boss, definitely have your tank do slow pulls on the trash and pull then down the pathway you just came up. Slower but much easier than running in and getting tons of mobs.

    If your LM is your main DPS, I would still go in with a lot of AM traited to have better debuffs (= less damage that needs healing). And Dúnadan-learning would be a must have. If your healing on the LM, try a mix of KoA and AM, but I am not sure LMs have the skill set just yet for being main heals. Long time since I was that level. At level cap it is possible.

    I would assume your group is using both scrolls, pots, hope and food as supplements.

    A few more considerations although you may have already be suing them. For heal skills at your level.... Continual air lore, improved flanking, improved inner flame..... If your group is good with watching CC, a lot of damage can mitigated by locking down the mobs. I really think in this level zone a red LM does not have the DPS needed and the group as a whole will benefit more from the AM/KoA lines.
    Used to show a pic... Seems to be broken links now. Good Ole Turbine.



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