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Thread: Reavers

  1. #1
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    Reavers

    Ok. So I'm just going to put this the way I think it should be. I just think that Reaver's need to be buffed. A rank 2 isn't strong enough to solo the WORST player out there! Well... maybe.... But that's beside the point! My point is that Reaver's need to be stronger and do a little more damage. That's all I think. If you guys think there's classes that need to be buffed or debuffed, comment saying why or how. Reaver's are good only to a certain extent, and if they try to go beyond that, They fail! If you guys also think that a Reaver isn't as good as it should be, you don't have to do anything but agree! If you think I'm wrong for some reason, I'd like to hear your opinion. It's not the easiest being a R2 Reaver ANYWHERE! But on the server's I play on, it's especially hard! I'm on Windfola, Arkenstone, and Silverlode.

  2. #2
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    The problem isn't with Reavers. Any R2 Creep class is utterly worthless against freeps of any calibre. To be honest, any creep class that's lower than R7 is. That's just how screwed the balance is right now, and you'd better get used to it since it's not going to change for a LONG time.

    When you get into the higher ranks, Reavers are actually one of the more powerful creep classes out there.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrion View Post
    When you get into the higher ranks, Reavers are actually one of the more powerful creep classes out there.
    I'd even dare say it's the most powerful creep class atm, at least in 1v1.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BirdofHermes View Post
    I'd even dare say it's the most powerful creep class atm, at least in 1v1.
    Certainly that or the Weaver. One has much higher DPS, notably burst, while the other has a lot of CC and a couple of powerful tricks they can use(traited burrow, reflect). Depending on what freep you come up against it could go either way, I think.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyrion View Post
    Certainly that or the Weaver. One has much higher DPS, notably burst, while the other has a lot of CC and a couple of powerful tricks they can use(traited burrow, reflect). Depending on what freep you come up against it could go either way, I think.
    Agreed. It certainly isn't the class.

  6. #6
    As has been pointed out. At rank 2 no creep is worth anything, they're walking renown, the only difference is how many legs they're on. Unless you can get into a group that is willing to take you, just PvE for maps until you get to rank 5, and make sure you get the 'cheap' audacity slots asap. Even after r5 you're going to want to prioritize getting audacity over many of your skills. You are going to be a high priority target, and your goal at low ranks fighting freeps is to last long enough to get a couple shots in for credit on kills ranked creeps are making. IMO Get H4P t2, the class trait to make jagged a bleed, and just focus on audacity till its capped.

    I agree with others that along with Weavers, Reavers really are one of the strongest creep classes once you get things like wrath, and the combo of all 4 bleeds with Impale.

    I haven't been playing the class long at all, but I think its generally in a good position compared to many other creep classes, and is only really lacking in a better way to close the gap on kiting freeps. Sustained dps is ok, burst DPS is pretty solid, and survivability relative to other creeps is where it should be (this is not to say all creeps don't need more survivability for the raw damage freeps can put out, just that reavers are in the right place compared to other creeps in terms of sturdiness).

    I suggested elsewhere and will repeat here. Adding a short duration root (5s pre-aud), instantly broken by direct damage to the effects of the enhanced blade toss trait would pretty well cover the major flaw I see in Reavers, getting kited.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post

    I suggested elsewhere and will repeat here. Adding a short duration root (5s pre-aud), instantly broken by direct damage to the effects of the enhanced blade toss trait would pretty well cover the major flaw I see in Reavers, getting kited.
    Can't help having a 'strange' feeling OP is trolling, but nevertheless I'll throw in my two cents real fast. Although the BT-root sounds neat, I'd rather see the rvr have a 10 sec in-combat sprint/2 min. CD, added to the skill set. Imho all creeps should have the rvr's out of combat sprints, which should be a 10 sec one aswell, just 'cause I like the number..

  8. #8
    imho I believe reavers are in a really good place atm skill and damage-wise, they're very capable of solo play and have a great impact on RvR with the -50% inc healing debuff they have and not to mention have great burst dps while maintaining good dps in-between, just wait till ya hit higher rank, it gets better I promise.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by poxnoxious View Post
    Can't help having a 'strange' feeling OP is trolling, but nevertheless I'll throw in my two cents real fast. Although the BT-root sounds neat, I'd rather see the rvr have a 10 sec in-combat sprint/2 min. CD, added to the skill set. Imho all creeps should have the rvr's out of combat sprints, which should be a 10 sec one aswell, just 'cause I like the number..
    Similar 'sprint' ideas were tossed around in this discussion previously as well. My main objection to this is run-speed boosts tend to turn into 'run away' skills as often as ones to close the gap on foes, where roots and slows are far less effective in that function.

  10. #10
    In nice 1v1s where cds aren't being blown, even without wrath, reavers are among the strongest classes on either side - right up there with wardens/lms/champs/minis/spiders etc. With cds, some freep classes become fairly difficult to beat, some maybe impossible if played well, but reavers still should do well since wrath, ato, DR are still quite good. Just don't be rank 2 (although a rank 2 with bought skills probably should be competitive).

    Being kited on a reaver isn't really a problem anymore like it was during Mirkwood. I'm not sure if a ranked reaver can be continuously kited if the reaver really doesn't want to be kited. Possibly a hunter or a burg could. The r15 hamstring trait by itself is quite a lot, but on top of that there is still BT slow, resilience and ato if they failed the first time (also brands, breaking combat for charge etc. if it goes that far)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    Similar 'sprint' ideas were tossed around in this discussion previously as well. My main objection to this is run-speed boosts tend to turn into 'run away' skills as often as ones to close the gap on foes, where roots and slows are far less effective in that function.
    I see where you coming from as I solo most of the time, but root on BT is a 1v1 addition, not something that will significantly change anything in proper battles. 10 more secs of unhindered movement in the pies ranks will.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by poxnoxious View Post
    I see where you coming from as I solo most of the time, but root on BT is a 1v1 addition, not something that will significantly change anything in proper battles. 10 more secs of unhindered movement in the pies ranks will.
    I get the idea from a similar addition to warden's hampering javelin with RoR. And while I literally never grouped on my warden the root on that was invaluable if I managed to get myself mixed up in a larger battle, and its duration is 2s pre-aud.

  13. #13
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    Reavers are just fine the way they are now.

  14. #14
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    Reavers are in a good place when compared to the WL, Defiler, Warg, and BA, but there still is a good amount of issues with the class itself.

    For example

    Our defeat responses

    Time-out = Pointless power regen

    Glory in victory = small hot healing between 450-1000 and for some reason they decided to give you also the +10% inc melee dmg debuff, you could remove that with a trait but i doubt there is really nobody using it. You might sometimes survive because of that heal, but most of the time its just helping you to heal through a freep crit auto attacks.

    Blood lust = -10% attack duration + 3% more crit and that will go past the max 25% crit change, its the only decent defeat response we got but it could also use some increase with the % crit change, the buff also has a downside of the bugged attack duration. The attack duration seems to help only with a SS but the rest of the damage skills you have should be 10% slower instead of being faster.

    Then we got some rather annoying stuff like getting slowed/stunned when you got resilience up, this is caused by a player who is using inductions or animations for CC before you used resilience. It is working exactly like the old good hunters swift bow induction vs warg hips.

    Devastating strike -50% inc healing debuff is getting resisted a lot nowadays because of the will stat change.

    Dying rage is a racial trait for both defilers and reavers with a large 10min CD, but most importantly it is a skill that has waited for revamp for a long time now.

    Hamstring is still doing 0 dmg and you can BPE and even resist the slow.

    Reavers attack range is garbage, it is easily noticed if you are running after a ranger session player.

    Blade toss is our ONLY way to catch up with a player who is trying to strafe kite or run away, and it does have a 1min cd, + when you actually manage to miss with BT it can make you fights from easy to really difficult in a second.

    Against the odds is a great skill, but it is also suffering from a rather long 10min cd.

    Animations for the jagged cut and mutilation should be made a lot faster, current animations are slow and sluggish.

    Severing strike and the Serration, i really wonder how many reavers are actually even keeping these on the skill bar.
    Serration is only usefull when attacking a lot of npc, and the severing strike is not even qualified for that.

    Our dots could use a little dmg boost.

    Reavers Upper hand skill is currently giving Block/Parry debuff and its only good for a sword and board guards/captains and the wardens, it should have resistance and the evade debuff added to it, + the traited version of the upper hand should also give the 30sec +1417 armour buff for a reaver instead of keeping it down for 15sec like the non traited version.

    Impale is by far one of the most important skills reavers have now, but currently it is kinda overkill. When you actually manage to get full crit impale its doing between 5-7k dmg. Of course with the current state of the moors it is not really bothering me, but maybe someday in the FUTURE it might need some slight adjustment for those external 25% dot dmg that ignores all mits.

    Blood of fire is doing 50 reflect dmg now, and during ROI it was 45. For a little pointless comparison wardens can reflect at least between 190-210 damage. Of course if it would be like 100dmg for BOF that would be way too much, but the dmg increase of 5 was kinda pathetic.

    Then we got the racial traits that could use some updating, the current ones are old and need higher values.

    And for last we got the class traits that also needs some minor changes, power boost for Reavers is useless once again, and quick strikes is also suffering from the same attack duration bug just like the blood lust and WLs Aura of Command, extended reach is a good trait for mass npc murder, but the trait would be a much better if it would work like the name is suggesting.

    So at least in my own opinion Reavers are NOT fine, they still need plenty of minor polishing and tweaking, but it is still nothing compared to what Defilers and Wls would need.


    In a 1vs1 perspective both sides going all in with the CDs and having a good understanding of their classes the outcome of the fights should look something like this

    Reaver VS Burglar = Winner is Burglar, UNLESS Reaver manages to get lucky full crit impales through TNG
    Reaver VS Captain = Winner is Captain
    Reaver VS Lore-master = Winner is Lore-master
    Reaver VS Champion = Winner is Champion
    Reaver VS Minstrel = Winner is Minstrel
    Reaver VS Warden = Winner is Warden
    Reaver VS Rune-keeper = There is a change that this could go either way.
    Reaver VS Hunter = Reaver is most likely to win this fight, BUT if hunter would get lucky with crits it would be a close one.
    Reaver VS Guardian = Most likely the only good and interesting fight, but the guard would be using sprint to kite the wrath, so in the end i would say guardian should win this fight.

    If the upcoming class changes are going to have some significant impact with the Freeps that could mean some interesting fights for Reavers, but i am pretty sure we are going to have to wait the Creep updates before we could achieve that.

    And of course there is always a change that it did not work out too well, and we will be back to the current status.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aideani View Post
    Ok. So I'm just going to put this the way I think it should be. I just think that Reaver's need to be buffed. A rank 2 isn't strong enough to solo the WORST player out there! Well... maybe.... But that's beside the point! My point is that Reaver's need to be stronger and do a little more damage. That's all I think. If you guys think there's classes that need to be buffed or debuffed, comment saying why or how. Reaver's are good only to a certain extent, and if they try to go beyond that, They fail! If you guys also think that a Reaver isn't as good as it should be, you don't have to do anything but agree! If you think I'm wrong for some reason, I'd like to hear your opinion. It's not the easiest being a R2 Reaver ANYWHERE! But on the server's I play on, it's especially hard! I'm on Windfola, Arkenstone, and Silverlode.
    Lol, wut?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nosterdamus View Post
    Reaver VS Burglar = Winner is Burglar, UNLESS Reaver manages to get lucky full crit impales through TNG
    LOL, wut? Every burg on M uses tag against reavers?

    In all utter seriousness, I think Ba's are the most OP class, so pls nerf them!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolgaring View Post
    LOL, wut? Every burg on M uses tag against reavers?
    Nah, i was saying if both players would actually go all in with the CDs earlier before that.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nosterdamus View Post

    In a 1vs1 perspective both sides going all in with the CDs and having a good understanding of their classes the outcome of the fights should look something like this

    Reaver VS Burglar = Winner is Burglar, UNLESS Reaver manages to get lucky full crit impales through TNG
    Reaver VS Captain = Winner is Captain
    Reaver VS Lore-master = Winner is Lore-master
    Reaver VS Champion = Winner is Champion
    Reaver VS Minstrel = Winner is Minstrel
    Reaver VS Warden = Winner is Warden
    Reaver VS Rune-keeper = There is a change that this could go either way.
    Reaver VS Hunter = Reaver is most likely to win this fight, BUT if hunter would get lucky with crits it would be a close one.
    Reaver VS Guardian = Most likely the only good and interesting fight, but the guard would be using sprint to kite the wrath, so in the end i would say guardian should win this fight.
    I do belive it's WAI that freeps popping all big CD's should win against reavers (or indeed any creep class). But reavers do have a big chance of beating many of those classes if just one or two of their big skills is on cooldown:

    Reaver VS Burglar (HIPS/TnG cd) = Winner is Reaver
    Reaver VS Captain (LS on cd) = Winner is Reaver unless the cappy is insanely lucky with crits
    Reaver VS Lore-master (WotC CD) = LM's are really strong, even without their single big CD, so unless you're really lucky with crits, and resisting their cc and debuffs, LM's are gonna win this
    Reaver VS Champ (Dire need, big bubble on cd) = Well, this is trickier, if it's a glory-champ, it can probably go either way, agains a fervour champ the reaver should have no problem
    Reaver VS Minstrel (Hmm, no real big CD's here, atleast if it's a WS minstrel) = I've noticed that this is actually more about luck, a crit on impale and getting them below 50% to use Devastating Blow to lower their selfheals will make or break the fight. Winner could be anyone...
    Reaver VS Warden (NS+DC on cd) = Shield traited high morale Warden in Determination will be unkillable. Red traited in Recklessness should be won by reaver. Assailment-kiting warden can be tricky and relies much on Blade Toss not being resisted/BPE'd
    Reaver VS Hunter = Really no big CD's, this is one where it actually comes down to real skills IMO
    Reaver VS Guardian = Haven't fought enough Guards (/or played my own in the moors enough) to really know...

    EDIT: OnTopic: The Reaver is in a good position, and all creeps suck at R2...

  18. #18
    I really wish someone had the inclination to video a lot of the top 1v1ers on E going against each other for people from other servers to watch and check out (and people from other servers for me to watch, ofc). So much of what I see in 1v1s with the top players just completely doesn't line up with things people say on the forums, and if seeing what I see would change their minds/show different strats/ability they aren't used to, or if what I'm seeing isn't accurate and/or those I think are pretty darned good at their classes actually aren't.

    This is a nice way of saying: what is wrong with your freeps if you think just dropping a couple big cooldowns from their arsenal will make a reaver win a majority of the fights? None of this is to say I don't think a reaver is in a strong position in compared to many other creeps.
    Last edited by spelunker; Jul 11 2013 at 03:35 AM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    This is a nice way of saying: what is wrong with your freeps if you think just dropping a couple big cooldowns from their arsenal will make a reaver win a majority of the fights? None of this is to say I don't think a reaver is in a strong position in compared to many other creeps.
    The reason a reaver will win most 1v1s when freeps don't use their big CD's is because reavers are very strong right now. They have the best dps on creepside (wargs can probably get a bit higher but will be really squishy) and Relentless coupled with an early use of wrath means good defenses.

    But we are talking high ranking reavers ofcourse when it comes to 1v1 top geared freeps. A R5 Reaver wont (and shouldn't) stand a chance against any freep with BiS jewellery and FA's with crystals...

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by vr00mie View Post
    But we are talking high ranking reavers ofcourse when it comes to 1v1 top geared freeps. A R5 Reaver wont (and shouldn't) stand a chance against any freep with BiS jewellery and FA's with crystals...
    Which is exactly what I'm talking about, r11+ reavers, and only half a handfull of the high ranked ones at that which are actually 'good' at 1v1s.

    You play a warden don't you? You really think in spear spec a reaver (even using wrath and everything else) could touch you if you were using all your gambits and tactics besides DC/NS?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by vr00mie View Post
    I do belive it's WAI that freeps popping all big CD's should win against reavers (or indeed any creep class). But reavers do have a big chance of beating many of those classes if just one or two of their big skills is on cooldown:

    Reaver VS Burglar (HIPS/TnG cd) = Winner is Reaver
    Reaver VS Captain (LS on cd) = Winner is Reaver unless the cappy is insanely lucky with crits
    Reaver VS Lore-master (WotC CD) = LM's are really strong, even without their single big CD, so unless you're really lucky with crits, and resisting their cc and debuffs, LM's are gonna win this
    Reaver VS Champ (Dire need, big bubble on cd) = Well, this is trickier, if it's a glory-champ, it can probably go either way, agains a fervour champ the reaver should have no problem
    Reaver VS Minstrel (Hmm, no real big CD's here, atleast if it's a WS minstrel) = I've noticed that this is actually more about luck, a crit on impale and getting them below 50% to use Devastating Blow to lower their selfheals will make or break the fight. Winner could be anyone...
    Reaver VS Warden (NS+DC on cd) = Shield traited high morale Warden in Determination will be unkillable. Red traited in Recklessness should be won by reaver. Assailment-kiting warden can be tricky and relies much on Blade Toss not being resisted/BPE'd
    Reaver VS Hunter = Really no big CD's, this is one where it actually comes down to real skills IMO
    Reaver VS Guardian = Haven't fought enough Guards (/or played my own in the moors enough) to really know...

    EDIT: OnTopic: The Reaver is in a good position, and all creeps suck at R2...
    Much more accurate assessment of the current state. About the only thing harder for me to kill is a Flayer Warg, and even then they don't do a lot of damage so it's about outlasting is all. Ranked defilers are a joke, that is a 20 minute fight, I just keep riding...
    [center]Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // [b][color=red]Akthuri r15 LM[/color][/b] // Vishus r5 Captain[/center]

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by vr00mie View Post
    I do belive it's WAI that freeps popping all big CD's should win against reavers (or indeed any creep class). But reavers do have a big chance of beating many of those classes if just one or two of their big skills is on cooldown:

    Reaver VS Burglar (HIPS/TnG cd) = Winner is Reaver
    Reaver VS Captain (LS on cd) = Winner is Reaver unless the cappy is insanely lucky with crits
    Reaver VS Lore-master (WotC CD) = LM's are really strong, even without their single big CD, so unless you're really lucky with crits, and resisting their cc and debuffs, LM's are gonna win this
    Reaver VS Champ (Dire need, big bubble on cd) = Well, this is trickier, if it's a glory-champ, it can probably go either way, agains a fervour champ the reaver should have no problem
    Reaver VS Minstrel (Hmm, no real big CD's here, atleast if it's a WS minstrel) = I've noticed that this is actually more about luck, a crit on impale and getting them below 50% to use Devastating Blow to lower their selfheals will make or break the fight. Winner could be anyone...
    Reaver VS Warden (NS+DC on cd) = Shield traited high morale Warden in Determination will be unkillable. Red traited in Recklessness should be won by reaver. Assailment-kiting warden can be tricky and relies much on Blade Toss not being resisted/BPE'd
    Reaver VS Hunter = Really no big CD's, this is one where it actually comes down to real skills IMO
    Reaver VS Guardian = Haven't fought enough Guards (/or played my own in the moors enough) to really know...

    EDIT: OnTopic: The Reaver is in a good position, and all creeps suck at R2...
    i'd agree some of this, however;

    warden though, if they are good, get their bleeds stacked, you're dead no matter what. whether you get them killed is a matter of them not bpe'ng too much or healing.

    mini's on BW have a tendancy to stack ridiuclous amounts of morale...so its near impossible to burst them below 50%, even if you get a 4 bleed impale dev.

    captain, im not sure you've fought a really good captain. granted theres really only 2 on BW, but they basically have to just not use MC heal, valiant strike, or rally cry to make it fair. they just take so little damage :/

    lm's, i'd disagree too, simply because, unless they spam water-lore(in which case you just arent killing them by yourself) they are fairly squishy, and quick to burst down.

    guards, it can go either way tbh. but if you use wrath reaver should come out on top.
    lugbur R11 reaver /// guthfred R9 cappy /// beregon R8 hunter /// guthblade R9 champ + too many other things

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by lugbur View Post
    i'd agree some of this, however;

    warden though, if they are good, get their bleeds stacked, you're dead no matter what. whether you get them killed is a matter of them not bpe'ng too much or healing.

    mini's on BW have a tendancy to stack ridiuclous amounts of morale...so its near impossible to burst them below 50%, even if you get a 4 bleed impale dev.

    captain, im not sure you've fought a really good captain. granted theres really only 2 on BW, but they basically have to just not use MC heal, valiant strike, or rally cry to make it fair. they just take so little damage :/

    lm's, i'd disagree too, simply because, unless they spam water-lore(in which case you just arent killing them by yourself) they are fairly squishy, and quick to burst down.

    guards, it can go either way tbh. but if you use wrath reaver should come out on top.
    LMs not stacking water-lore is a good manners choice. If an LM has Ents, Lightning storm, and Wisdom on cooldown but have a decent morale pool, you aren't going to kill them unless they're playing nice.

    The other examples you use are exactly what I'm talking about, though. Just add in that burgs can stun/trick-kite their way around most of your cooldowns, no TnG or KO required, and with good debuffs bring your dps down pretty low.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by spelunker View Post
    LMs not stacking water-lore is a good manners choice. If an LM has Ents, Lightning storm, and Wisdom on cooldown but have a decent morale pool, you aren't going to kill them unless they're playing nice.
    Lol, just lol. If it's a planned 1v1 maybe I keep some skills off the table, but last I checked that is a war zone, kill or be killed. Call me whatever you want, but I'll use whatever I have available to me.

    In the immortal words of EA Sports... "If it's in the game it's in the game"

    You can call me names and I'll call you dead.
    [center]Irin r8 Hunter // Arngar r8 Burg // [b][color=red]Akthuri r15 LM[/color][/b] // Vishus r5 Captain[/center]

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Irin19 View Post
    Lol, just lol. If it's a planned 1v1 maybe I keep some skills off the table, but last I checked that is a war zone, kill or be killed. Call me whatever you want, but I'll use whatever I have available to me.

    In the immortal words of EA Sports... "If it's in the game it's in the game"

    You can call me names and I'll call you dead.
    umm, ok......



    where is this name-calling, or even complaining you're referring to?




    I just said a LM with their 5 min cooldowns already spent isn't going to die to any single creep if they don't want to.




    try reading next time, maybe?

 

 
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