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  1. #1

    Completing the quest while in combat

    In the Update 11.1 Release Notes I noticed this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience
    You will no longer be able to complete a quest by talking to an NPC or by using the remote-bestow quest completion button while you are in combat. This will prevent certain exploits.
    At first I thought that this causes just a minor annoyances (while preventing exploits, presumably), like when I can not get the reward for warband quest immediately like I used to, but first have to get rid of any aggro I got while fighting the warband.

    But then I went back to Dunland to finish some of the quest lines I left earlier, and I noticed that some of them are now very hard if not almost impossible to finish, because of this new behavior.

    I submitted a bug for a Vol. III, Book 3, Chapter 10: Echoes of the Dead instance, because there clearly the intention was that it should be possible to escape from the Cursed Oath-breakers by talking to Radanir while being attacked by them. It is now not possible to do so, as it is treated as finishing the quest while in combat, hence disallowed. It is not possible to kill the Oath-breakers either, after their morale gets low they withdraw for a moment, only to attack again with full morale a few seconds later. I finally managed to bring them down in synchronization so that I got a few precious seconds of "out of combat" state and I could finish the quest. Actually, that was an interesting challenge, but most probably unintended.

    The other quest where I noticed the similar problem is Tusks of the Boar. There combat state prevents fleeing on Elder Déin's horse, but at least it is possible to kill them all and finish quest then. But that was easy for me only because my character was 15 levels above this quest.

    I think that this should not be a general rule for every quest - there could be some setting, either to mark the special quests where it is allowed to finish while in combat (but that would require reviewing all the existing quests), or to mark only the ones where this is disallowed (so it would get applied to the ones where exploiting this would be possible).
    Because I really hope that these specific quests stay as they were - the feeling of panic in such moments, when you have to do something to escape quickly while being attacked by overwhelming forces, can be a great experience, deepening the immersion.

  2. #2
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    The "cannot complete/advance a quest while in combat" should have been restricted to the Ettenmoors, where--if reports are correct--it was used as an exploit.

  3. #3
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    Yes, Echoes of the Dead is bugged. I can see the same completion problem with Tusks of the Boar.... and unless you are 15 levels above... you simply cannot kill them all off.

    Bug that one also please.

    BTW to complete echoes of the Dead run away as soon as the last sequence is begun so you can get through all of the remaining undead and reach Radanir before they agro.
    Bill Magill - Mac Player - Old Timers Guild- Gladden:

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  4. #4
    I'm pretty annoyed about this too. In Moria I had to restart the session play instances several times because I could not finish the quest: either due to some mobs having fallen from the bridge and not having died, gotten random aggro from a troll at the end and no fleeing was able to remove it, etc. Now I stood in Dunland at the quests mentioned before and just thought: why the hell is this happening? Moria was the first big expansion being released. Maybe they missed something there. But Dunland? Released just before Rohan? -.-
    Please "unfix" this "fix" and just limit it to Ettenmoors.

  5. #5
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    In the interim, there are *some* limited workarounds.

    If you are a Minstrel (any race), you have a "play dead" skill. The mobs will run away, you get out of combat, and you can turn in the quest.

    If you are a Hobbit (any class), you also have a "play dead" skill.

    If you have done the Lost Fellowship quests in Forochel, you get a one-use "play dead" item from the Minstrel and, if you do all the quests, you get four more of your choice of item (including four "play dead"s, should you choose them). My Dwarf Hunter is doing these quests at present, since he is going to have to do that Book eventually and is neither Minstrel nor Hobbit.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  6. #6
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    It looks like some relief is coming in patch 11.2, which is now available for testing on Bullroarer.

    "In Update 11.1 to prevent exploits, we prevented all advancement of quests by talking to an NPC while you are in combat. This caused some difficulties in certain instances, so you will now be allowed to advance a quest up to the last objective while in combat by talking to an NPC, but you stil will not be able to finish the quest until you leave combat."

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ULLROARER-ONLY

  7. #7
    I realise OP that you did finish this quest and this thread is more about the bug generally..... but just in case their are others who want to get past it who are not hobbits, minstrels or have the play dead from Forochel - thanks to another very helpful thread I found in the forums, I was able to complete it the second time quite easily with my man Champ. What you need to do is fight the Oath-breakers two/three at at a time as they are spread out into groups. The first time I did the quest I ran madly through and tried to fight them at the end (I mistakenly thought it was one of those 'escape' endings) and let myself be killed after realising they all regen. So you need to fight them in sections and as soon as they both get down to the point where you cannot attack them (their morale goes green) quickly move on to the next section, you will not be in combat and they will not follow you. Keep doing this until your last run to Radanir. I realise this may be more difficult for other classes, and I was a couple of levels up from the quest level, but if you can buff yourself as much as possible, food, lore etc, perks if you are VIP it should be ok There is another thread in the forums about this quest though and they probably explain it better than me!
    H

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valamar View Post
    Yes, Echoes of the Dead is bugged. I can see the same completion problem with Tusks of the Boar.... and unless you are 15 levels above... you simply cannot kill them all off.
    If we are talking about the same quest, I did manage to complete Tusks of the Boar but only barely; I was roughly 7 levels above. Any lower in level and I would have died.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickysmom View Post
    It looks like some relief is coming in patch 11.2, which is now available for testing on Bullroarer.

    "In Update 11.1 to prevent exploits, we prevented all advancement of quests by talking to an NPC while you are in combat. This caused some difficulties in certain instances, so you will now be allowed to advance a quest up to the last objective while in combat by talking to an NPC, but you stil will not be able to finish the quest until you leave combat."

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ULLROARER-ONLY
    That may turn out to be okay, so long as the objective that completes the instance is not counted as the final objective (ie: during instances you get 2 entries in your log; completing the final in-instance objective completes the instance entry and makes it go away as you leave the instance; then outside you turn in the real quest and that leaves your log). I still say it sucks that this had to be implemented at all. I guess it is just life -- someone decides to play dirty and cheat and the rest of us get to suffer the consequences. >.<
    R5 100 GRD Marevayave - Leader of [U][B]Riddermark[/B][/U]ed For Death
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  9. #9
    My understanding is that Freep players were using the turn in and teleport functionality of the Festival quest to escape being killed in the Moors by Creeps. This kind of trip is the reason that a Hunter's Desperate Flight skill is disabled in the Moors.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  10. #10

    One change that really aggravates

    Ok fine people abused it at the moors, then leave the change at the moors only please Turbine.

    Stop overkilling/punishing everyone for the moors.

    Adjust it back to the way it was before the update.

    Who really likes being aggravated by this really?

    I know my friends and I don't.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Mar-Evayave View Post
    =


    That may turn out to be okay, so long as the objective that completes the instance is not counted as the final objective (ie: during instances you get 2 entries in your log; completing the final in-instance objective completes the instance entry and makes it go away as you leave the instance; then outside you turn in the real quest and that leaves your log). I still say it sucks that this had to be implemented at all. I guess it is just life -- someone decides to play dirty and cheat and the rest of us get to suffer the consequences. >.<
    yes, that may be a problem... i think turbine should just put this "fix" only in the moors.

  12. #12
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    I'm afraid I have to say the the 11.2 "fix" to the 11.1 "fix" is just a kludge. Someone needs to go back and rethink the whole thing, starting with the repeated quest starts from the Festivals, since those are what created this mess in the first place. Perhaps just disable *those* quests from completing in combat (and only in the Ettenmoors, at that)?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by whheydt View Post
    I'm afraid I have to say the the 11.2 "fix" to the 11.1 "fix" is just a kludge. Someone needs to go back and rethink the whole thing, starting with the repeated quest starts from the Festivals, since those are what created this mess in the first place. Perhaps just disable *those* quests from completing in combat (and only in the Ettenmoors, at that)?
    Perhaps RIP the damned quest starts OUT BY THE ROOTS? I don't know what suit at WB thought they would be good advertising, but they are a bloody nuisance that make me even less inclined ever to visit a Festival again.
    Eruanne - Shards of Narsil-1 - Elendilmir -> Arkenstone

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Ark_The_Ogre View Post
    Ok fine people abused it at the moors, then leave the change at the moors only please Turbine.
    It is usually a management decision that results in an inferior solution such as what occurred in this case. Some money guy went - what the lowest cost change to software that will stop people from avoiding death in the moors via advancing a quest in combst.

    Live deploy the lowest cost fix. It breaks something else. The question from some manager finance guy - what is the lowest cost solution that will solve both the original problem and current problem?

    You end up building what developers like me call a kludge solution the first time around because we are not allowed to do it the right way. The second time around we again not allowed to do it the right way. We have to kludge the kludge.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  15. #15
    Hopefully by now Turbine understands its having unintended consequences (and its not just the quest mentioned or warbands, there is also the Sambrog bug where you can't open the chests at the end and other stuff) and will fix it.

    On a positive note, at least now they have finally thrown a bone to long neglected burgs (who can just HIPS and turn in the quest), albeit an unintentional one. [When are they ever going to scale up CJs and stop making EVERY SINGLE boss immune to CC ? What if they made every single boss immune to aggro skills ?]

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by MithrielWielder View Post
    On a positive note, at least now they have finally thrown a bone to long neglected burgs (who can just HIPS and turn in the quest), albeit an unintentional one. [When are they ever going to scale up CJs and stop making EVERY SINGLE boss immune to CC ? What if they made every single boss immune to aggro skills ?]
    This change to conjunctions were done because conjunctions were too powerful. Well trained teams were face rolling all instance content via the proper use of conjunctions. This situation lead to two game change proposals internally:

    1) Change all instance content to require that you have a burglar and to effectively use conjunctions. Otherwise, you were going to fail.

    2) Nerf conjunctions so that the use of a conjunction would have no effect on the completion rate.

    Turbine picked option 2.

    A similar issue occured with crowd control. Crowd Control allows a team to face roll instance content. Hence it is not allowed.

    Lotro is not the only game that disables options when it comes to Boss time. If you play Swtor, all bosses are immune to crowd control. Swtor does not have anything ike a conjunction.

    In both Lotro and Swtor. You must use pure trinity tactics - tanking - healing and DPS to take out a Boss.

    You mentioned opponents to aggro skills. Lotro has Bosses that do one or both:

    1) Taunts do not work on them.

    2) They do not have a hate list. They pick a target and they beat on it for a while. They pick a different target. You are the healer. You are the target. You have to survive some how until the Boss picks a new target which is hopefully a heavy armor wearer.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  17. #17
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    Epic Quest 3.3.10

    Someone earlier in this thread suggested the inability to finish this quest "in combat" was going to be fixed in 11.2. As of yesterday, this bug is still very much there. Had a chat with a GM about it after 4 attempts and he/she suggested I submit a ticket while in the instance. I tried that (submitting it as soon as I entered anticipating time to respond) and then proceeded to heal myself through attacks by 7 dead for about 1/2 hour. Checked the status of the ticket and got an error report. Turns out while I was in there healing myself, the Saturday afternoon routing issue had occurred and so attempt #5 was another death. When I checked the ticket status yesterday, a GM had responded and closed the ticket saying check the forums. So I found this thread but haven't found much else. Anyone have another lead they can suggest? Sadly, my epic quest line is stalled there.
    (Imagine this in a lovely shade of orange and italicized)...when in doubt...twirl...

  18. #18
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    Still an issue as experienced today by my lvl 66 Lore-master. Unlike my Mini who ran this a while a go "play dead" is not an option.

    I would think that issues that affect epic quests might get be prioritized as is almost guaranteed to be experienced by every single player at one point or another. Oh well.

  19. #19
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    I bugged "Tusks of the Boar" months ago, because I could not even get it started properly. After you select your four companions, you must talk to a NPC before starting of into the camp. But you can't do that, because wave after wave of attacking NPCs starts rolling just when you get near to the guy.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BelamanthDE View Post
    I bugged "Tusks of the Boar" months ago, because I could not even get it started properly. After you select your four companions, you must talk to a NPC before starting of into the camp. But you can't do that, because wave after wave of attacking NPCs starts rolling just when you get near to the guy.
    It is possible to do it, you just have to kill them faster.

  21. #21
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    Echoes of the Dead

    Just to clarify on this Instance...there is absolutely no need to take special steps or drive yourself crazy to complete this quest. You don't have to play dead, sneak, fight or do anything else except run back to where Radanir will appear as soon as Candaith says "HOLD". You have a few seconds to wait for him to appear as the conversation unfolds between Candaith and the Britou, and you can exit the Instance as soon as Radanir appears and with no-one in hot pursuit...why make things hard for yourselves when this is the simple way to do it until it's fixed...hopefully.

 

 

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