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  1. #1

    Lore-master Tank Build

    Don't laugh, I'm serious. Okay, mostly serious. Feel free to let the laugh out, the idea is a little ridiculous, but...

    It happens. The only folks in my kin that log on much anymore are casual players with mixed teal and purple gear, and there's hardly a tank among them. So, I actually end up filling the role quite a bit. It involves a healthy dose of water-lore, the Hytbold healer set, and a liberal use of our non-dps skills, but it works. And it's fun.

    So far I've successfully tanked Fornost Water, OE, Glinghant, all the GB instances, and every three man. That includes challenges and T2 where applicable for all of those besides Sword-hall and Webs of the Scuttledells. Just T1 on those two. Tried Scuttledells on T2 the other day and couldn't quite take the damage when adds spawn. Looking back, I could've traited Deep Lore and timed CC and debuffs a little better, but I was still taking a bit too much damage to recover from a mistake. Taking a little less damage would help which brings me to this post.

    How would you build for tanking?

    The real difficulty here is that it's just straight dps tanking. I'd love to equip some vit/bpe gear, but there's only so much room for that before holding aggro becomes an issue. Currently, in "tank" gear, I run about 31k tac mastery with 8.5k crit, 10k morale, 3k crit defense, maxed mits, +8.7% incoming healing, and 11.4%/4.8% parry and evade. In a perfect world, I'd add more to both crit defense and b/p/e, but there doesn't seem to be quite enough stat space to do that.

    The other way to go would be to slot some more morale oriented bracelets and earrings that still have will like the new Wildermore pieces or some of the Horse-lords items that have both will and vit. Both those routes are expensive so I'd be very interested to hear some input before working on it.

    So, the question. Would you...

    Go for more crit defense?

    Go for more parry and evade and stack morale?

    Simply stack morale and kite like a maniac?

    If there are any useful pieces out there that you can think of, I'd love to hear about them as well. As an example, I was thinking about slotting a Horse-lords vit tome to add 2k crit defense, 162 vit, and 260ish morale. The casualty is the gold Cardolan trinket which will put my tac mastery and crit down to 28.5k and 7.7k respectively, plus cost me will proc buff. Maybe that's still enough, maybe not, but I'd hate to waste my recipe on an item that might not even be useful.

    Like I said, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. A bit of ridiculous idea, I know, but it's been a fun challenge to tackle.
    Last edited by kriskrosed; Jul 03 2013 at 03:02 PM.
    85 LM Berewen, 85 Burg Balculus, 85 Guard Benferth

  2. #2
    Awesome! I love hearing stuff like this.

    I *do* actually have a tanking build, although I haven't done a lot with it other than skirming and small instances.

    I admittedly stack a lot of morale, which I know is not the best. However, I do use my setup for support role in raids, like Flight T2, where your tact mastery is almost irrelevant (for debuffs/cc), but you do need to be able to take risks and get close enough to pop a bane flare / storm lore.

    Most of this gear is for morale/vit, but I reserve all my armour spots for hytbold/erebor sets depending on role.
    • Pair Eomers bracelets (421m), Eomers scroll (pocket) (421m, 75v)
    • Wildermore earring (359m) + Blackened Silver earring (211m) (I'll probably get another wildermore earring soon)
    • Sunbrand and Starblossom Sages ring for the defensive procs
    • Sword of twilight tales (211m)
    • Wildermore Cloak of Loyalty (449m,79v)
    • Staff with 370m passive bonus, plus 1116 morale worth of runes
    • Book with 1116 morale worth of runes

    Morale is currently sitting at 13k with edhelharn token on, no other buffs. Cappy buffs and banner bring this well over 15k morale. Only 1.6k crit defence, I'd like to add some more somewhere.

    Tactical Mastery is a miserable 28.5k, crit 5k, with 12% parry, 1% evade (I need some stat tomes, stat!). Mits are not quite maxed, about 35%.

    For amour, I use animal friend (4 hytbold, 2 erebor) in 3/6 mans, and for 12 mans like flight/BfE I use ancient master (4 hytbold, 2 erebor) OR 2 lesser erebor, 2 greater erebor, 2 animal friend erebor. I pick the pieces such that they all give a bit of either morale or vit. My current set adds 500 m, 236v

    As for tanking technique, I think you've probably got a better idea than I do. AoE for aggro seems to work fine even with the low tact mastery, unless you have other AoE classes with you. The water lore and full fellow flank heals will actually add quite a bit to your aggro too, so use as much as possible, and keep up the water lore between battles.

    Using bear pet taunts and chaining daze/root/stun when someone pulls aggro on a single target.

    For personal survival, deep lore and/or a +fire-lore targets book is a must, plus kiting (yup!) over tar. Herb lore and cracked earth really help, and a +bane-flare targets book can work wonders. If you are a little crazy, you can armour swap so that you get the +CC duration from ancient master sets when needed but swap back to the animal friend for healing.

    I have tried running with yellow line traits, but obtaining/holding aggro gets very difficult. However, the faster cc's - zero induction flash, 5 sec cracked earth root, fast tar, and extra bane flare targets - not to mention the 100% lore skill uptime -*really* help survivability.

    If you can live without having a bear for taunts, bringing an eagle is good for the extra flanks and crits with the 4 piece hybold set, and the extra cc (fear) is nice. Make sure you watch for the coordination proc on the hytbold set - it can be hard to keep up water lore while kiting, but using the coordination zero induction helps.

    For your specific question regarding horse lords pocket - perhaps try the Eomer scroll first? It works about to be similar in morale (without the crit defence), but you can see if you can still hold aggro while using it. If it works out ok, you can update to the horse lords pocket.

    Cheers for the cool post, and happy LM-tanking!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Somewhere in Middle-earth
    Did you try to let bear to tank the boss? (with appropriate traits and food)
    Ich bin kein Deutscher, sorry für Grammatik
    Eglish isn't my native language, sorry for mistakes

  4. #4
    I'm not sure what it is like for other LM's, but I find even my own water lore will pull aggro off my bear. The taunt is ok, but only lasts long enough for killing some trash or adds, not the boss itself.

    Inner flame might help for a while, but you'd be at the mercy of other adds through the channel period.

    Haven't tried with full blue line, so that's a possibility.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Cornwall, UK
    I loved reading this thread. I know that I have often tanked using my Rune Keeper and players always laughed at me. They stopped laughing though when they saw how much aggro I was generating, how much damage I was soaking up and how easy it was for me to take it and still deal out some damage of my own!

  6. #6
    A nice thing for loretanking is that we don't have items/skills that reduce percieved threat. This means we have a bit more percieved threat than dps classes, who can reduce it. I have to note that I've found any channel skills pretty useless while tanking, for power return I rather use a pot and staff sweep flank instead of draining, as draining causes us to lose aggro. Inner flame tranfers aggro, but it's useless the first minute of the fight as it generates more than it reduces, and why would you want to lose aggro if you are tanking anyway.

    As for gear, for armour I use 2 set storm caller moors gear (+10% fire damage helps to make up the loss in mastery), 2 set hytbold animal friend (because 3 water-lore is just mandatory), the gold annuminas robe (high armour value and gives quite a bit of morale) and ancient erebor boots (for the crit defence). I'm still working on jewellery, I use the starblossom necklace of endurance that gives 162 vit, 232 morale, 1k crit defence and a bit of tact mit. I also use the bracelets from survivors of wildermore which are good for 900 morale each. The pocket I tend to swap a lot, I have the spirited eomer scroll that gives 113 will, 4xx morale a bit of evade and crit, which is a nice balance or I use the wildermore pocket (not gold yet) for a bit more crit defence. Since I swap a lot while tanking I cant really say at which stats I'm at, if I'm having trouble with aggro I just swap in dps jewellery and if I need more survivability I take more tank gear. I can get 11,5k morale, 40% crit defence unbuffed but I use my dps jewellery a lot when tanking because stuff just doesn't hit that hard.

    I've also tried to tank a bfe t1 troll (laugshat), this almost succeeded thanks to a nice RK healer, but I died when he got to 10k by some unlucky crits followed by a distributed attack (that one did 9k damage). I had no problem with aggro since there was no melee dps in the group.

  7. #7
    The thing when u dont have a tank is that there are probably loads of DPSers out there. To tank within those with ur LM ull need much tact mastery. So when i do it i go for 7.5k morale and 42k tact mastery. There are hardly any mobs that can deal that much dmg in 3-6mans that this much morale wouldnt be enough. I tanked BoDT2 like that(and i mean not only bosses but their adds as well) cause the tank was a bit useless apparently.

    One mentioned about occasions when u trait yellow like flight T2 and i totally agree with that. But i got 15+k morale with just the token and food buff, and over 19k morale in grp. Staff and book with morale relics and vit legacy+title on them, vit earings and necklace. vit cape, eomer will sword(400ish morale i think?) and for armor i use 2 tradition and 2 blue moors set, gloves from BG and robes from..... i dont remember but it gives me lot of morale. I might have used a couple of vit tomes as well but i dont remember for sure.

    About the bear tanking thing, most people dont know how to let bear tank(and i mean the rest of grp not LMs). Bear with food and legacy on book generates a lot of threat, but indeed not enough. and thats where inner flames comes in. Use it once or twice in a fight and not just you but noone will have an easy time taking the aggro of the bear

  8. #8
    Wow, thanks for the replies. Some good stuff. Couple of things in no particular order (on vacation so time is short).

    1) I actually do use the bear to tank quite a bit, but pretty much just when solo. The problem in a group is it just takes too long to build aggro on it. It can work, but the group has to buy in and have some patience. Plus, you have to be able to tank for a good thirty seconds or so anyway to build enough aggro to transfer. I could see that working in a fight like BfE maybe (huge kudos for giving that a try btw, that's awesome!), but in most fights, if I find if I can tank for thirty seconds, I can tank for the entire fight and use a pet like the raven or eagle that helps me more.

    Solo though, I agree, it's extremely powerful. The best thing I've found is it's possible to trait 5r/2b with Noble Savage, and have the bear almost as strong as going 4b/other stuff.

    2) Good call on the starblossom ring. Easy to get and good buffs. Completely forgot about it. That will be a great way to get both will and some tank stats. Thanks!

    3) Also good call on the Sticky Tar. That's actually a huge part of my strategy when the fight has adds like in Fornost Water.

    4) Water-lore. Absolutely essential. Big, big question here though: does it actually build aggro when you use it to heal yourself? I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that it doesn't. When pulling with the bear, I've found that if I put water-lore on myself immediately after the pull when the bear hasn't had a chance to build any aggro at all, it does not pull aggro off of it. The mobs continue to attack the bear even though I'm healing myself. If I put a water-lore on the bear though, it immediately pulls aggro off. That makes me think that self-heals do not build aggro. Like I said though, I don't know for sure.

    5) Also good call on the Storm-callers gear and the gold gear. I don't PvP so it never entered my mind, but I might have to a little bit now.

    6) I'm not sure traiting yellow would work too well, but it sure would allow you to take more damage. Can anyone who has done it give some rotations that they use to hold aggro? The great thing about red is, of course, ISG, but more than for dps, it's a way for group members to dump a mob back on you. All they have to do is kite the mob a few times through the hot spots. I sure would miss that traiting yellow, but if someone has a good rotation that does a similar thing, I'd love to hear it.

    That's all I can think of at the moment. Sorry for the poor writing, but this is what my writing looks like when I don't have time to edit.

    Again, thanks for the replies.
    85 LM Berewen, 85 Burg Balculus, 85 Guard Benferth

  9. #9
    Water-lore does create aggro when used on yourself, and a lot, but self-healing doesn't generate aggro on mobs you don't already have aggro on, so you have to tag them with AoE or something to start the healing aggro. Going yellow traits can work in situations tactical/ranged damage is bad anyway so you have to rely on melee dps (which isn't nerfed at all when going yellow) and you have no melee dps'ers. I went this way in bfe since without fire-lore 100% of the time I'd get one-shotted by a Melee High dev or the distributed attack. The 22% miss chance (running with spirit pet) on the troll also really helped, next time I try it Ill get a cappy in the group so I don't get 2-shotted at the end XD.

    As for strategies, I rarely (read never) use tar outside the moors for the slow, if things can be cc'd I use AoE stuns like ents/storm lore and use bane flare during the parts they have stun immunity (if needed, most of the time I don't need the cc to survive). If you want to hold aggro in yellow traits you basically have to use your melee skills whenever they are off cooldown, and spend the rest of your time keeping debuffs/water-lore up. Of course if you have dps in your group that all do 3k+ dps single target you'll have a hard time holding aggro if you don't go full on dps yourself too, but this is rarely the case in pugs.

    I've found the hardest part of LM tanking is getting accepted as tank in a group XD.
    ~Dwarrowdelf (Bomb Squad)~
    Freeps: Vulcwen (R8 LM), Vulciel (lvl 100 RK), and some lower level alts.. Creep: Shadowweb (R6 spider)
    My ideas on how LM should be: [url=https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?543323-LM-revamp-reconsidered]LM Revamp reconsidered[/url]

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcwen View Post
    I've found the hardest part of LM tanking is getting accepted as tank in a group XD.
    This is awesome. You need to group up with the wardens that want to DPS!

    In all seriousness, its great to see people pushing their classes in ways the Devs never thought of. Good on you!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Indiana, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by kriskrosed View Post
    Don't laugh, I'm serious. Okay, mostly serious. Feel free to let the laugh out, the idea is a little ridiculous, but...

    How would you build for tanking?

    Like I said, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. A bit of ridiculous idea, I know, but it's been a fun challenge to tackle.
    I used to tank the Limlight Gorge regularly on my LM. Several times I did it with my LM, a minstrel to heal me, and anything else for DPS. The time we did it with two LMs, an RK, and a minstrel we felt like we were God's gift to Middle Earth and cut through everything like butter.

    I didn't build anything special for it and just wore my Dunland armor set. Pretty much just a hybrid set of class traits so I didn't lose too much use for Blinding Flash so I could build in my own breathers. It didn't take long for my fellows to learn to NOT break it unless they wanted to tank. As I recall, I was carrying a mix of red and yellow traits then. I used a lot of Ancient craft to debuff armor values and made lots of use of Benediction esp if I was with a hunter, RK or another LM.

    I did NOT use my bear for tanking. I used my raven primarily to buff up fire dmg (or rarely my eagle) and tanked using heals off of flanks with a pet that was buffed with SOW:Rage and using a brooch for threat and dmg so that they would flank as often as possible.

    Haven't tried it since. Might be fun to try.

  12. #12
    This thread is fantastic

    I've just returned to the game after a 5 year break, and having been a burglar in my previous life on Middle-Earth I decided to give LM a try remembering a guy in my old kin who was awesome.

    I've only got as far as level 12 and I'm slowly getting my head around all the stats - a lot has changed! This thread gives me something to aspire to

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Feraxks View Post
    This is awesome. You need to group up with the wardens that want to DPS!

    In all seriousness, its great to see people pushing their classes in ways the Devs never thought of. Good on you!

    It's the way of all games. Devs create classes that are meant to be built around the "perfect" group. It never works like that in game. So we have to improvise. I am currently working a LM up. He's at L34, and I'm having a great time. I generally play solo, or at most duo so this post gives me something to work on. Great info guys.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Hamburg, Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Dumathin View Post
    It's the way of all games. Devs create classes that are meant to be built around the "perfect" group. It never works like that in game. So we have to improvise. I am currently working a LM up. He's at L34, and I'm having a great time. I generally play solo, or at most duo so this post gives me something to work on. Great info guys.
    The funny thing is, the lore- master dev has actually given us a tankish line in the beta, the Keeper of Animals, which can survive a lot more than even most medium armour classes and has its own oathbreaker-like/group heal/debuff capstone which does more than 30 k damage in its own right. On a 2 minute cooldown
    The hands of a healer are the hands of a king.



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