In the topic. Thanks for all responses!
In the topic. Thanks for all responses!
A well played, decently geared Warden is essentially unkillable in solo PvP. The gargantuan self-heals, high mits and BPE along with incredibly powerful cooldown skills and the ability to switch between melee and ranged combat at will means that the only way you will be in danger is if you gimp yourself or you get zerged. Unfortunately this high power level means that you will find it difficult to get any solo fights with Creeps. Most will deem it not worth the time and effort.
The Lore-Master is somewhat tougher to play well, due to being squishy and relying on inductions. However, with frequent use of Water Lore combined with CC immunity and immense burst damage capability this class is also very powerful while solo, and the majority of creeps will struggle greatly to punch through your healing, especially if you time your flanks well.
Last edited by Nyrion; Jun 29 2013 at 04:10 PM.
[LEFT][COLOR=#ffffff]Morlenil Barkolomew Turmuz Shurz Gruubluk
Posting in white; so people can read my dismal ramblings easier.[/COLOR][/LEFT]
Thanks for your response! Followup question: Which of these two classes do you tend to see more of at endgame?
Warden's are in the Tank Class. They do damage, self heal and tank very well. Currently it takes about 12 creeps to kill 1 warden if the warden is alone. If the warden has any backup they will be pretty much immune to creep attacks.
Lore-masters are a Tactical Class. They are a lot squishier but in recent updates have received some powerful skills. Water-lore heals are stackable 3x on your self or others. A couple of LMs stacking Water-lore + Stun Immunity on themselves or others are a powerful offset. DPS is pretty good too. Not as survivable in a mobbed attack.
If either are grouped with other skilled PVMP players such as Cappy, Mini, (Guardian) both are formidable on the Moors.
As for end-game, most raids only need 1 LM but multiple tanks are often sought after.
Whoever says “I” creates the “you.” Such is the trap of every conscience. The “I” signifies both solitude and rejection of solitude. Words name things and then replace them. Whoever says tomorrow, denies it. Tomorrow exists only for him who does not seek it. And yesterday? Yesterday is Kolvillàg: a name to forget, a word already forgotten.
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There seems to be some misinformation here. Lets start with the biggest...can a Warden tank an entire craid and survive? NO, once focus fire is on a warden, even with defiant challenge (mits 80-90%) and heals, it's only a matter of seconds before you're down. Secondly, if a warden is stacking that many heals he is not doing dps, he is just surviving. If a warden is dps geared his dps will be just enough to out dps defiler heals solo.. With multiple healers its an exercise in futility an you might as well call for backup. Even with large bleeds and dps line bonuses, the stun spam, skill lock capabilities of most defiler will make you have a difficult balance between survival and dps. A mid ranked warden is a very powerful ally and small groups with a warden is quite fun, don't get me wrong. A sub R5 reaver will have a lot of difficulty killing a mid-rank warden even if they are not self healing, but a well played reaver can put a serious dent, and kill a solo warden (who is not spam healing). Truthfully, the moors is a lonely place for a solo warden due to such a large number of high-morale, spam healing wardens. A well played dps warden is much more enjoyable, and very competitive against other classes. I personally stack agility and keep mits reasonable, and my lower morale is not so daunting. High vitality, morale stacking wardens will not dps well at all and will have difficulty pushing through even moderate heals.
Assailment is a great ranged asset, but against melee classes it's not viable since gambits will not fire at close range. Also the length of animations and increased attack duration will offset many of its advantages, in recklessness the bleed stack line has a line bonus (done in succession) that makes it better for solo play.
~Anaxander R9 Warden, Baranthor R5 Hunter, Skartan R2 Guardian~ Elendilmir
~Karukh R10 Warg, Prisonshank R6 Reaver~ Elendilmir
I can't say either way which is better. What I can say is that I've seen some wicked 1v1 between wardens and creeps and LMs and creeps. The wardens always have the really drawn-out battles and tend to win. I can also add that an LM kinmate is either a Second or Third Marshall by now and he is NOT a farmer. He earned his rank fair and square and is a formidable opponent on the field.
And again, while I don't PvMP either class, if I had a preference I would go with the LM. I detest any sort of melee PvMP, just because I'm not good at it. I prefer to range stuff down. I've had a far more enjoyable time playing my black arrow creepside or my minstrel freepside than I ever did on my reaver or guard (those are the only 4 classes I've tried PvMP with).
R5 100 GRD Marevayave - Leader of Riddermarked For Death
R8 100 MNS Fayah/100 LM Siennah/100 HNT Dinenol/100 RK Dhurik
100 CHN Alachas/85 CPT Dinfaerien/60 BUR Dhax/35 WDN Godoric
R9 100 MNS Fayeh (alt Wilya) - Lonely Mountain Band @ Landroval
Wardens are the best soloers in the moors ...well played they can win any 1vs1 against all the creep classes . They can win a fight again 2-3 creeps , or more if they are low rank creeps , thats correct ...but can be defeated if the creeps actually use their skills .
Another 2 things.
Crowd controll and Silence/disarm its the worst enemy of the warden . So one thing is fighting agaisnt 4 greenie reavers, and one other thing is fighting against a spider-defiler-reaver x2 at the same time.
And ...like our friend up there said : Wardens have excelent dps and bleeds. But, if you are fighting a group of creeps wih a healer among them , you probably wont get any kills .
Wardens can overpass the defiler healings capabilitys ..but only when they focus fire . If a warden is being attacked by a group of creeps he cant focus fire on somebody . (well ..he can, but probably die trying to )
And for Loremasters : They have 3 of the best things that any class in the moors needs : HEALS+DPS and of course ...ANTI STUN
Last edited by Norhog; Jul 04 2013 at 04:10 PM.
A warden is definetly easier to solo on given all the tools, but I actually prefer the LM. I find their skills a lot more fun + you get pets. Then again I am leveling both
Nerf healing in PvMP and just maybe it will be worth it again.
add to it that wardens can play tank as mentioned, since many instances need one and it seems in my server at leist there is always a short of them you always have a group to group up with... add to that you can also do melee dps so you practically will always be able to group up...
Flixxer - Hunter - Imladris - 100 R7 ---- Danielleth - Minstrel - Imladris - 22
Zaireth - Rune-keeper - Imladris - 73 -- Ariannasophia - Warden - Imladris - 14
Flixxer - Champion - Eldar - 54
I have not tired a warden but i feel that with my pet, I am able to take on multiple enemies and with insane debuffs and cool effects, i never get bored. I have heard that wardens are awesome at solo, but for me, the class has to be fun otherwise there's no point in playing it, and throwing a spear at an enemy over and over again just doesn't appeal to me, similar with hunter.
Both LM and warden are unkillable in 1on1s when played well, so with current balance it doesn't matter which one you play if you want "the best". After Helm's Deep things could change though.
Overall LM is very nice class, they got tons of skills for dps/cc/debuff/support, and to master it you have to play quite a lot. You need very good moving skills when fighting melee to get your inductions off, and you need to bind most of your skills to quickslots so you can use *correct skill, fast* and not waste time clicking it.
Last edited by qru; Jul 15 2013 at 07:04 PM.
[COLOR=#0000ff]~ Magellanic Moonsorrow ~ R13 ~ [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ff0000]~ Myrkky Hoitsu ~ R8 ~ [/COLOR]
not sure which is better, although i can say from my own experience of playing a warden in PVP it's doesn't compare to the other classes
the diversity that a warden can bring imo is brill, and they can dish out some epic dps, especially at higher ranks with added damage from battlefield promotions
i've sparred some LM's, kinnies and others and unless the LM really know their class, like real really, then warden still eats them for breakfast.
although the servers best are very tricky to beat, and spars against them usually end up in a draw
just my 2 cents
roll warden for pvp woo!
-- First rank 12 warden on server --
I have heard that burglars and minis are also decent in the moors, but i havent seen any in action.
When i spar either of the classes you mentioned (on my guard), unless i spar a noobish player, I draw all the time with both classes you mentioned. I think though, that LM would be the better class because of anti-stun, high AoE and DoT damage capabilities, and their ability to spam heals.
To win 1v1 in Pvmp? Warden. However I prefer to fight with a group in the moors and while a warden is certainly good in this situation also I love the Lm in the moors. Playing one and having one in the group is always welcomed and useful. That said the lore-master can be very squishy at the beginning.
Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong.
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