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Thread: DoTs or crits?

  1. #1
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    DoTs or crits?

    I've started playing my burg again and was wondering is a crit build more viable now with the crit magnitude boosts compared to DoT? I for some reason love to spam the dots but they seem to do less dmg overall whatever i do.

    At this point it might be a good idea to make it clear, im only level 47 on it and as im about to get the first LIs i'd like to know which way i should go considering my future.

  2. #2
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    "I for some reason love to spam the dots but they seem to do less dmg overall whatever i do. "

    You just answered your own question. critical response skill damage, positional damage, skills critical multiplier, both subtle stab legacies, and both glee legacies are a must have for every burglar

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ostev View Post
    "I for some reason love to spam the dots but they seem to do less dmg overall whatever i do. "

    You just answered your own question. critical response skill damage, positional damage, skills critical multiplier, both subtle stab legacies, and both glee legacies are a must have for every burglar
    Both glee legacies? The pulse one is not THAT special if you ask me, as the pulse does not heal incredibly much. Unless you are bothered to spend some remembrance of course.

    However, to answer the question, in my opinion Damage over times are really bad since rohan, unless you know you will lose the fight and will try to get an afterkill. Yet, that still doesn't deny the pretty bad state with Cunning Attack, compared to a maul (warg) or ba/reaver dots. (I feel we have level 65 damage on the dots in a level 85 world..)

    I think the dots are only useful when you go for it on your LIs.

  4. #4
    If a burglar is spending too much time hitting cunning attack or other bleeds than he isnt maximizing dps.

    PVE Weapon legacies :

    -feint attack cd
    -position surprise strike from stealth
    -critical response damage
    -subtle stab damage
    -trick range
    -subtle stab crit multiplier
    -agility stat
    ________________

    PVE Bag legacies :

    -skills critical multiplier
    -aim cooldown
    -addle cooldown
    -glee healing
    -glee pulse modifier
    -addle induction multiplier
    ________________


  5. #5
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    Nice parse there!

  6. #6
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    Okay i guess ill be going with crit build right away thanks for the replies and the parse.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    If a burglar is spending too much time hitting cunning attack or other bleeds than he isnt maximizing dps.
    Its a nice parse, but still, its not good enough to tell Crits > Dots.
    1st: DoTs resets on dummies, so you can never run a real parse with them
    2nd: a 1 minute parse doesnt mean your real dps. Extreme short fights are a lot imprecise. Try holding 4k dps in a 15 minutes raid fight in moors Also, non-doters burgs doest a high dps at the start of battle and it decreases over time, while DoTs does the opposite.



    Anyways, its just a consideration.
    I dont like to run DoTs with my burg too.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    2nd: a 1 minute parse doesnt mean your real dps. Extreme short fights are a lot imprecise. Try holding 4k dps in a 15 minutes raid fight in moors Also, non-doters burgs doest a high dps at the start of battle and it decreases over time, while DoTs does the opposite.
    sry sir but completly wrong. 1minute parse is the standard parse to compare dps on a dummy. It is plenty. Before update 10 burg could not even parse longer then 1minute (power issues). No one can have/hold 4k dps in the moors.
    Wrong, you will do more dps when your unseen buff is maxed. Yes, your first attack from stealth is the highest, but your dps starts going up again when your buffs start stacking.
    Last edited by arghh; Jun 14 2013 at 08:03 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by arghh View Post
    sry sir but completly wrong. 1minute parse is the standard parse to compare dps on a dummy. It is plenty. Before update 10 burg could not even parse longer then 1minute (power issues). No one can have/hold 4k dps in the moors.
    Wrong, you will do more dps when your unseen buff is maxed. Yes, your first attack from stealth is the highest, but your dps starts going up again when your buffs start stacking.
    You already answered the question. If you cant hold the 4k dps for a long fight, its not ur real dps (sustained). Its just a burst.

    About Unseen set, even if it increases over time, it will always be lower than the first seconds of the fight. Theres nothing wrong in what i said.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    You already answered the question. If you cant hold the 4k dps for a long fight, its not ur real dps (sustained). Its just a burst.
    IN THE MOORS. In some zergraids 4k sure. One minute is not a burst. What is real dps (sustained)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    About Unseen set, even if it increases over time, it will always be lower than the first seconds of the fight. Theres nothing wrong in what i said.
    Not always true.
    Don't wanna continue this anymore. Just gonna add - there are to many different situation and variations that you will encounter. Parsing a dummy for a minute is standard way of comparing dps (between classes, players). Your moors, raid, watever dps will be in direct correlation with the dummy parse. If you can't do much on the dummy your "sustained" dps will be lower then the person next to you parsing higher then you.

  11. #11
    Burglar bleeds are :

    Cunning attack
    Cunning attack ( with aim )
    Cunning attack from stealth ( or after feint attack with aim )
    Lucky strike ( gamblers strike )

    And you can also get the yellow signal from clever retort, but thats a 1/4 chance.

    All of those attacks dont have a very high crit magnitude compared to skills not attached to a bleed. Also aside from that burglar bleeds arent very high, that i know of there are none that tick for 1k plus. Im not saying dont use burglar bleeds, there are plenty situations where bleed damage is better to use than just initial damaging attacks. For example when the target has reflect damage on it. I also use gambler strike if other things in my rotation are on cooldown like flashing blades or exposed throat , and use cunning attack on thos split seconds where everything else in on cooldown.

  12. #12
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    don't forget WPS. skill that has such a loong induction, you can go for a quick bio while you wait for it to go off

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by arghh View Post
    don't forget WPS. skill that has such a loong induction, you can go for a quick bio while you wait for it to go off
    forgot about that...pray that the target doesnt turn around

  14. #14
    Will not participate in that endless discussion, where QK orthodox telling me, there is only one true way of traiting, just pointing, that it is quite untrue:

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    And you can also get the yellow signal from clever retort, but thats a 1/4 chance.
    We can't compare in sets one thing, and divide set when we do not want just to prove our point. Chance is 50% in proper set. In gamble I also using benefits of unseen set, so criting/devasteing same amount of time, and QK as far as I know, do not changing main SStrike cd, so I can hit as many as I want, just like in QK.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    Its a nice parse, but still, its not good enough to tell Crits > Dots.
    1st: DoTs resets on dummies, so you can never run a real parse with them
    2nd: a 1 minute parse doesnt mean your real dps. Extreme short fights are a lot imprecise. Try holding 4k dps in a 15 minutes raid fight in moors Also, non-doters burgs doest a high dps at the start of battle and it decreases over time, while DoTs does the opposite.



    Anyways, its just a consideration.
    I dont like to run DoTs with my burg too.
    There is so much nonsense being spewed on this single post that it's hard to prioritize which claim is the most ridiculous. So let me be sequential:

    1. Yes, DoTs are re-set on the dummies, but it's quite unlikely that the re-sets lower your DPS to the extent that without the re-sets DoT Burglar dummy DPS would be comparable to Unseen/Dev Burglar dummy DPS. Your argument reminds me of the Warden on our server who kept saying that he did more DPS than Champions or Hunters except that his DoTs were re-set on dummies!

    2. 1 minute is hardly an "extreme[ly] short" fight. Almost every landscape and instance trash mob dies faster than 20 seconds, and some DPS races are effectively less than 1 minute (e.g. the first Giant in FF Challenge on-level). So why is 1 minute such a bad measure?

    3. 15 minutes as a standard? What? What PvE fight requires you to continuously max DPS a single target for 15 minutes?

    4. PvP DPS is a true measure of DPS? Excuse me? PvP is an entirely different ballgame, for at least two transparent reasons that escape you. First, very few people go into the 'Moors in your typical "glass cannon" DPS build. Second, in PvP, you can rarely continuously DPS, as movement and constant stuns keep you out of combat.

    So I guess my "true" DPS is like, um, 300?

    5. Finally, your claim that non-DoT Burglar DPS decreases over time is plainly fallacious. Most of the top DPS Burglars use the Unseen set, and your DPS go up as the Dev chance stacks.
    Last edited by Miretocot; Jun 18 2013 at 11:10 AM.

  16. #16
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    People getting mad and distorting what i said. Im getting out of this topic.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    People getting mad and distorting what i said. Im getting out of this topic.
    Its always on this forum, when it comes to QK vs Gamble discussion. Majority of QK just need to prove in how big mistake is minority... always.

    And do not mind Mire, he always raging, when somebody will not write that champs are god and best class ever.
    Everybody forgeting this is a game, and that are only numbers.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cliford View Post
    Its always on this forum, when it comes to QK vs Gamble discussion. Majority of QK just need to prove in how big mistake is minority... always.

    And do not mind Mire, he always raging, when somebody will not write that champs are god and best class ever.
    Everybody forgeting this is a game, and that are only numbers.
    You seem to have a fixation with me both in-game and forum; did I hurt your feelings somehow, somewhere, unwittingly?

    As for your claim that I say "champs are god and best class ever": My views are well-known both in-game and on the forum, because I am not afraid to present them when I am pretty certain they are accurate. And anyone who has interacted with me in-game or have read what I have written with care on this forum would say you are grossly mis-representing me. In fact, even DPS-wise (the only area where Champions can claim any competence), I have said repeatedly that post-RoR Hunters do more burst AND sustained single-target DPS when solo; I have been also saying lately that it's possible Hunters even do more AoE DPS if there are 10 targets. So where would I say that Champions are "best" if I do not even think that in DPS terms? Maybe I think Champions heal better than Minstrels or RKs? Or CC or de-buff better than Burglars or LMs? Or buff better than Captains? Or tank better than Guardians and Wardens?

    But then, given your poor English, maybe you did actually imagine I said all these things?

    TLDR: F-off.

    Edit: If DoT Burglars really think they out-DPS Unseen Dev/Crit Burglars, then please produce some evidence. If dummies distort DoT Burglar DPS, then where are these 4k-plus DoT Burglar DPS in Acid or FF zerg on-level? And there are plenty of more accessible, non-Raid testing grounds (e.g. the Fire boss in the Pits).
    Last edited by Miretocot; Jun 20 2013 at 09:24 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    If a burglar is spending too much time hitting cunning attack or other bleeds than he isnt maximizing dps.

    PVE Weapon legacies :

    -feint attack cd
    -position surprise strike from stealth
    -critical response damage
    -subtle stab damage
    -trick range
    -subtle stab crit multiplier
    -agility stat
    ________________

    PVE Bag legacies :

    -skills critical multiplier
    -aim cooldown
    -addle cooldown
    -glee healing
    -glee pulse modifier
    -addle induction multiplier
    ________________
    These legacies are correct in a way, but also can deal with a bit of critiquing

    You should definitely have Glee Heal and Glee Pulses, but there is no reason they need to be on a main bag. Make a swappy, put them on there with sneak speak HIPS CD, and Confound countdown, and any non essential cooldown/swappy legacy.

    To maximize your glee heal, consider some tact mastery/incoming healing/crit rating relics (including tactical crafted relic) on your swap bag. Every little bit counts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Abbiati View Post
    People getting mad and distorting what i said. Im getting out of this topic.
    Just about everything anyone said disagreeing with any of your posts is absolutely correct, you should probably know how to play a class before you give class based advice on the forums, especially if you don't want to be corrected

    Quote Originally Posted by Cliford View Post
    Will not participate in that endless discussion, where QK orthodox telling me, there is only one true way of traiting, just pointing, that it is quite untrue:

    We can't compare in sets one thing, and divide set when we do not want just to prove our point. Chance is 50% in proper set. In gamble I also using benefits of unseen set, so criting/devasteing same amount of time, and QK as far as I know, do not changing main SStrike cd, so I can hit as many as I want, just like in QK.
    Your DPS will be lower in gambler, no matter what you do. The only real situation when gambler is any good is a fight like BFE, or some other hard hitting boss fight. And that is only an opinion, as a QK burg can do just about everything as well as gamble burg, except for the some what steady application of the debuffing gamble.

    One other situation where gambler wins is in pvp IF and only IF you happen to be a CCing, kiting coward :P

    If you aren't doing BFE challenge, you should trait QK, this is just common sense.
    Last edited by EdalorTrailtamper; Jun 21 2013 at 01:23 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Miretocot View Post
    You seem to have a fixation with me both in-game and forum; did I hurt your feelings somehow, somewhere, unwittingly?
    It was joke... Some distance to yourself? And some politness...

    Anyway, my point is, that that compares heading to nowhere, becouse after all, all depends from player. This is only academic discussion, couse to compare it correctly you guys would be forced to find 2 exactly same players with same skills in QK and in Gamble. IMO its impossible.

 

 

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