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  1. #1
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    fulltime creeps feel like red headed step children

    Turbine understand letting PVMP inbalance remain for this long ( as it wont be fixed till next year ) your making all your creep players ONCE AGAIN feel like you dont care about their being a customer or not. Everyday creeps log into a mess of freeps in overwhelming numbers cause its alot more glory, fun, points, and soo much easier to win. For those 100% creep players many full time creeps dont log in as much or at all now. Not to mention the killing deed that was screwed up for those who play for titles and prestige. All Im saying is from a creep perspective it VERY much seems like our business isnt enough to worry about anything we need. Thus rendering the outcome of most creeps dont wanna pay a single red cent to a company who doesnt concern themself with them.
    This is a GREAT TIME to do something, anything for those creeps who play thru the terrible one sided fights. Its totally demoralizing to put up the the total amount of unbalance. If it was for 2 months that would be alot but at least its getting fixed... but this 7-8 months of total unbalance is crazy rude.
    Have a meeting, figure out something worth doing, something that creeps will appreceate. Put it to a council vote, whatever... but a little bit of... we understand, were sorry, here is a token of thanks goes a LONG way for future game purchases.
    Think about it, make it happen.
    Thanks

  2. #2
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    PvMP is a very small percentage of the game, which means priority to it will fall inline to that percentage...

    In other words, low rung on the ladder and there are currently far more bigger fish to fry.
    Give a guy a pound of gold...he'll complain about how heavy it is.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    PvMP is a very small percentage of the game, which means priority to it will fall inline to that percentage...

    In other words, low rung on the ladder and there are currently far more bigger fish to fry.
    It's a much bigger part of the game than strictly pve only people want to realize or even admit. Not to mention, with the amount of money it makes turbine from creep skills/traits & corruptions (even classes) on the store, it shouldn't be neglected the way it is.

    The zone may be small but it's player base is NOT. I invite you to go to http://lotroaltfinder.net/ just to see how many players pvmp.

    Many people (myself included) only pve to get optimal items for pvp, which is our endgame. Continue to neglect pvp and the pve can suffer as well.
    Last edited by KillGore81; Jun 21 2013 at 06:30 AM.

  4. #4
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    Don't mind Darkcntry he's on the payrole. I used to think that pvp was just a minor part of the game too but recently after avoiding the moors for 6 years i have little else to do, as such i have decided to explore this "little" part of the game and found it to be much more active than the current pve population especially on my server. I think that Turbine should invest at least some portion of their time to continue to develop PVMP to a level that is of benefit to the community as a whole
    "The internet is a bubble dominated by the loudest, most unrepresentative voices; an infinitesimally small minority of a minority which, deaf to reason and the opinions of others, deludes itself that somehow it is the voice of the majority. An infinite echo chamber of shrieking, witless banality."

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    It's a much bigger part of the game than strictly pve only people want to realize or even admit. Not to mention, with the amount of money it makes turbine from creep skills/traits & corruptions (even classes) on the store, it shouldn't be neglected the way it is.

    The zone may be small but it's player base is NOT. I invite you to go to http://lotroaltfinder.net/ just to see how many players pvmp.

    Many people (myself included) only pve to get optimal items for pvp, which is our endgame. Continue to neglect pvp and the pve can suffer as well.
    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take anecdotal evidence over that of those with the actual numbers. Turbine has said countless times that PvMP (and raiding) amounts to a small percentile of the overall playerbase, and those that strictly do PvMP without PvE are a fraction of that amount.

    This fact, coupled with the knowledge of limited man hour resources, is why PvMP seems "neglected"...Turbine *MUST* focus their finite resources on areas that reach the majority of the playerbase first, with the extra aspects taking up a lower priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellemere View Post
    Don't mind Darkcntry he's on the payrole. I used to think that pvp was just a minor part of the game too but recently after avoiding the moors for 6 years i have little else to do, as such i have decided to explore this "little" part of the game and found it to be much more active than the current pve population especially on my server. I think that Turbine should invest at least some portion of their time to continue to develop PVMP to a level that is of benefit to the community as a whole
    When will people stop claiming "payroll", "fanboy", "shill" or other comments with regards to those that bring information that they don't like?
    Give a guy a pound of gold...he'll complain about how heavy it is.
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  6. #6
    Another server, another problem. On Anduin the Etten are mostly red. We began to joke, that creeps HAVE to run in raids, because otherwise they woud have not enough DDs to kill anyone, five healers seem to be mandatory.

    Maybe some freep classes are very strong, but OP is a numbers game...
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    PvMP is a very small percentage of the game, which means priority to it will fall inline to that percentage...

    In other words, low rung on the ladder and there are currently far more bigger fish to fry.
    I have lost intrest in the PvE side along time ago because of various reasons I wont discuss here. As Turbine has made it clear that the full time PvMP players are the minority and they don't actually bother or care to look at our issues me and many of my friends have taken our minority money away from Turbine.

    What you don't seem to get is that allot of the PvMP players were some of LOTRO loyal supporters. Well for me at least, no more. I have found the greener pastures were the game developers actually cares about the "minority.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Torhowl View Post
    I have lost intrest in the PvE side along time ago because of various reasons I wont discuss here. As Turbine has made it clear that the full time PvMP players are the minority and they don't actually bother or care to look at our issues me and many of my friends have taken our minority money away from Turbine.

    What you don't seem to get is that allot of the PvMP players were some of LOTRO loyal supporters. Well for me at least, no more. I have found the greener pastures were the game developers actually cares about the "minority.
    Who said anything about Turbine not 'caring about the minority'? What was said was that there are finite amount of resources available and Turbine has to focus them on the projects that have higher priority.

    This whole martyrdom attempt is getting pretty ridiculous...Turbine has no chance of winning here, if they stop and focus on PvMP/Raiding/Flavor-issue-of-the-day, then the game will completely grind to a halt and immediately fail.

    One day, people may understand what it means to actually work in a development studio and know what prioritization entails.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    I'm sorry, but I'm not going to take anecdotal evidence over that of those with the actual numbers.
    I provided a link that showed numbers to back up what I have said.

    Carry on with your pve.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    I provided a link that showed numbers to back up what I have said.

    Carry on with your pve.
    You have provided a link to a website that scrapes incomplete and, at best, inaccurate data...if that is used as your backing, your stance is already flawed. My "source" is directly from Turbine themselves...
    Give a guy a pound of gold...he'll complain about how heavy it is.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankspace View Post
    fulltime creeps feel like red headed step children
    and so they should, this game was never intended originally to have any form of PvP, it was only added at the last minute and has never really been a focus, thus they don't really do much for PvMP. I don't bother with this game for PvP, if i want PvP i log into Warhammer Online and join a warband.
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  12. #12
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    I'm sure Sapience said, in that 20 questions thread, that PvMP will undergo a balancing later this year; after the freep character overhauls. I'd imagine they're pretty major to warrant a note on the expansion press release, so that could be why.

    There's no point setting everything up nice and neatly only to have to throw it away in a few months.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    You have provided a link to a website that scrapes incomplete and, at best, inaccurate data...if that is used as your backing, your stance is already flawed. My "source" is directly from Turbine themselves...
    I've provided a link that shows that thousands and thousands of people participate in pvp and it's a much larger aspect of the game that even turbine wants to admit.

    Again, the zone is small but it's player base is not. I'll wager more people actively pvp than they do run helegrod or fornost. Yet resources are spent to revamp and scale those.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edrogar View Post
    and so they should, this game was never intended originally to have any form of PvP, it was only added at the last minute and has never really been a focus, thus they don't really do much for PvMP.
    That's such a tired old argument.

    Yes, we all know that originally this game was not going to have pvp and it was a "last minute" addition. They've also said since then that they didn't expect it to get the attention from players that it has and that they'd like to continue to develope it.

  14. #14
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    I play a creep. I love it! exciting - run around, scream and shout, die, run back...no harm, no foul. of course, I am not so concerned about ratings and such, just the craziness of it. Yes, at this time it seems it takes at least double the numbers of creeps to survive a freep onslaught, but I remember not too long ago that it was the other way around. We haven't been forgotten - one thing at a time. Rather a few things are done well than a lot of things done poorly. I can wait.
    there, they're, their

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    I've provided a link that shows that thousands and thousands of people participate in pvp and it's a much larger aspect of the game that even turbine wants to admit.
    Again, you're providing a link to a site that scrapes the API that has been proven to be inaccurate...you can provide links to sites till you're blue in the face, if those sites all have the same source of their data, and that data being inaccurate, it's not going to 'prove' anything.

    Again, the zone is small but it's player base is not. I'll wager more people actively pvp than they do run helegrod or fornost. Yet resources are spent to revamp and scale those.
    And I'm going to go out on a limb and say you'd lose that bet...and not by a small margin.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    You have provided a link to a website that scrapes incomplete and, at best, inaccurate data...if that is used as your backing, your stance is already flawed. My "source" is directly from Turbine themselves...
    add to that the fact that many might have made a pvmp toon and then never played it anymore (like i did...)
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  17. #17
    Does anyone even care about PvP in this game? I mean, its been the same thing for the last 6 years and I honestly can't understand why people would play the same map that never changes for no reward.

    News Flash: LOTRO is a PvE game, I think its time for all the PvP'ers to move on to another game and quit clogging up our forums with posts like this.

  18. #18
    /ignoring that (those) troll (trolls)/

    Don't know why are you complaining - the moors never have been fair or balanced and every attempt to do so is wasted, because Turbine never understood, that it's not about op creeps or freeps - if you lose, just get 30 % more players and fight again: you will win.

    So what, atm freeps are maybe OP because of all those winning team joiners (that make one side op) - next update they slightly improve MP (or maybe not), they move to the other side and freeps start crying about op creeps.

    Unless there's something like a localized scaling, things will never change.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post

    That's such a tired old argument.
    What argument? I'm agreeing with him, PvP'ers have been treated so badly in this game we should be feeling like the red headed step child.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    And I'm going to go out on a limb and say you'd lose that bet...and not by a small margin.
    Err i'd say he'd win the helegrod portion of the bet.

  21. #21
    Turbine is not very good at using the resources have are they? Look at Wildermore; from what I've heard, the mobs die too easily, no group content (except mounted combat I guess), and the end game portion is hytbold 2.0 for a pocket that is barely better than what you could acquire via the farm instances. It's nice and all but, not absolutely necessary. same goes for hobbit present and other bunch of fluffs.

    The point is Turbine spends that resource on fluffs that are not necessary instead of fixing what needs to fixed. If Wildemore wasn't announced for U11, and instead dedicated to rebalance pvp, who would really complain about it? The raiders? well...they're gonna continue to rant about the &&&&&& erebor raids etc. but wildemore wouldn't have changed that because it offered no group content what so ever (except mounted combat) so raiders would complain anyway. The questers? nah, those are the people fine with what they have already, and they'll be happy to roll an alt and start over; wildemore will be a nice addition to them but it won't make or break the game for them.

    Ah well no point to cry over spilled milk I guess.

  22. #22
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    Another Point of Voew

    Quote Originally Posted by Asterotg View Post
    Another server, another problem. On Anduin the Etten are mostly red. We began to joke, that creeps HAVE to run in raids, because otherwise they woud have not enough DDs to kill anyone, five healers seem to be mandatory.

    Maybe some freep classes are very strong, but OP is a numbers game...
    Yes anduin is terrible, creeps run around in huge raids farming every single freep they see. Every raid has at least 3 healers per group. As soon as the raid dies anyway they all log out and wine on Anduinsng ( german version of globallff)

    Another problem is 1vs 1. It is just as bad as freaver farming. High ranked monsters use every skill they have to farm freeps in a duell. As soon as a weak class( hunter for example), enters the duell field every monster wants to spar him. They know it is easy prey.But as soon as freep class uses one of their survival skills ( touch and go, bubbles, etc...) they are portrayed as OP and they should stop using noobs skills.Monsters will stop doing duells with him, because he is not playing according to the rules monsters have made. Monsters are in charge of the ettenmoors here and they make all the rules because they run around their raids. Even when they meet a single freep, Wargs will use battle vanish and spiders will hide. Freeps should have no chance of landing a kill, doesn't matter how bad the odds are against him.

    Rohan was supposed to increase a creep`s ability to roam the moors solo, but it made them group even more and know they use this to their advantage and zerg all day. A solo creep or even a small group has no chance in these ettenmoors.


    Tolgarth of Anduin
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    Who said anything about Turbine not 'caring about the minority'? What was said was that there are finite amount of resources available and Turbine has to focus them on the projects that have higher priority.

    This whole martyrdom attempt is getting pretty ridiculous...Turbine has no chance of winning here, if they stop and focus on PvMP/Raiding/Flavor-issue-of-the-day, then the game will completely grind to a halt and immediately fail.

    One day, people may understand what it means to actually work in a development studio and know what prioritization entails.
    Are you seriously defending Turbine into thinking (I mean, brainwashed thinking) that they actually care about this game? What about well thought updates, most annoyingly bugfixes and doing something almost every update that the PVP community likes?

    - How about the HiPS bug?
    - Border-skill bugs, greying out of skills when you get dismounted?
    - Server lagg which was our fault in the first place?
    - Commendation system?
    - Leaderboards removal?
    - KB deeds?
    - Buffs-upon-Keeps?
    - Infamy/Renown on quests along with the removal of Destiny Points?

    Please don't sell us this bullsh*t.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bankspace View Post
    Turbine understand letting PVMP inbalance remain for this long ( as it wont be fixed till next year ) your making all your creep players ONCE AGAIN feel like you dont care about their being a customer or not. Everyday creeps log into a mess of freeps in overwhelming numbers cause its alot more glory, fun, points, and soo much easier to win. For those 100% creep players many full time creeps dont log in as much or at all now. Not to mention the killing deed that was screwed up for those who play for titles and prestige. All Im saying is from a creep perspective it VERY much seems like our business isnt enough to worry about anything we need. Thus rendering the outcome of most creeps dont wanna pay a single red cent to a company who doesnt concern themself with them.
    This is a GREAT TIME to do something, anything for those creeps who play thru the terrible one sided fights. Its totally demoralizing to put up the the total amount of unbalance. If it was for 2 months that would be alot but at least its getting fixed... but this 7-8 months of total unbalance is crazy rude.
    Have a meeting, figure out something worth doing, something that creeps will appreceate. Put it to a council vote, whatever... but a little bit of... we understand, were sorry, here is a token of thanks goes a LONG way for future game purchases.
    Think about it, make it happen.
    Thanks
    I agree with your statement except the the kill deed . In my opinion it was a good change - i can almost solo the freep/creep and then from somewhere freep/creep comes and takes the kb and it counts to him. Why should i get no reward for it, I did the hard work ? If participating in the combat its right to take kill too. Just saying
    Name: High Chieftain Vulkaran; Rank: 13; Race: Warg; Class: Stalker; Tribe: Creatures of the Fiery Kind

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkCntry View Post
    PvMP is a very small percentage of the game, which means priority to it will fall inline to that percentage...

    In other words, low rung on the ladder and there are currently far more bigger fish to fry.
    I'd really like anyone to give me a logical argument (asserting that the statement I quoted above is true) as to why Multi-boxing fixes made the cut in the last patch notes here http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...80#post6818880 specifically the part titled as such.....

    "An issue preventing multiple clients from running on a single machine has been addressed."


    By the logic I see repeated over and over not just by the poster i quoted, shouldn't PvMPers, who I'm confident represent a percentage of the lotro gaming population in orders of magnitude larger than Multiboxers, be given priority to dev time for fixes/balance etc??? Better yet why is Multi-Boxing....which is such a obscure thing outside of rank farming or the miniscule amount of people who do it for fun, even given any dev time when there are so many other pressing issues that if fixed would bring people and their revenue back to the game.
    Last edited by Vezz; Jun 23 2013 at 04:40 AM.
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