First, this is not the ideal group set-up, as the Captain (Delwood) is actually a 2nd alt that lacks gear and experience (especially when we ran this). His main is Champion, and equally as capable as myself or Lancel; but when the three of us do this run, we will never have an optimal situation since all three of us have newb Captains.
Second, it was really late, and people were falling asleep. In fact, in subsequent runs we couldn't even complete the Challenge while trying the "fast" method of spawning all 3 bosses together so ended up doing it the "slow" way for Lancel's boots (which still didn't drop).
Third, this particular run could have been done much faster except Delwood forgot to use OB on the remaining Troll (that's why he says we could've done it at 2:10 on the Fellowship chat).
I do think 2 Ardour Champions and 1 Captain would be the ideal class set-up for this though.
I would ask for a few hints on this fight.
What is the so called fast boss spawn trick?
What traits is your captain using? I run this with S&B, going sometimes HoH, sometimes LoM. Kite healing with a cappy works fine. If i stop 1s i'm dead from bats damage, even in full tank gear. Your group does not have stun immunity, so i assume the champs are splitting adds.
How do you choose targets, as in, Which mobs die first and why? I tend to kill morguls and morrovals first, then start kiting , kill the other adds, kill bats and batwoman boss. After that its a faceroll.
My safe group is warden, cappy, any; my alternate group is cappy, LM, any. I have never actually considered going 2 champs. Your times are great, IMO, as i finish this in 7-8min.
A high res video of a 2 min run or a complete breakdown of the instance would help me a lot.
Update- Me, Salfar and another helping champions tried this group setup of 1 cappy 2 champs. We managed 3m30s-4m times with a single wipe on my fault when i was in last stand cooldown and decided to wait for the next RC instead of going for the morale potion with 4k morale left, only to get stunned. Salfar got the golden boots, im still in search of my shield.
From what i understood, the mobs you kill first during the start of the fight determine which boss will spawn first. Killing Durcheron or Carcheiron did not made much time saving- Durcheron first was about 10s faster than Cracheiron first. Surprisingly, killing Durcheron first resulted in easier runs as well, just as lotro wiki tutorial hinted. In hands of healing i never once feared a wipe, potted morale, hitted last stand or had to kite bats for more than a few seconds. But run times went up to 4m30s.
Some people believe that SH T2C is an instance that favors some classes, which is true just like Iobar's Peak. But groups that would have a hard time in IP can complete SH T2C just fine. My 2 cents:
-Natural kiters like Wardens and Cappys have an easier time here. As a cappy i have even main tanked and main-healed T2C with a DPS LM and a DPS RK. With a cappy+warden group even a burglar finished t2c without hiccups.
-If you play a squishy induction-based class, some adjustments on your role are in order. In the run with Lm + RK we resorted to target assist+ focus firing one mob at a time, with revealing mark if a boss, telling mark if not. Letting the tank grab enough aggro so you can dps a boss is essential.
-A ministrel in T2C would have a hard time main healing. Better choose a kiter/tank and go war speech.
-Its not mentioned, but i do believe that guardians also have a harder time in SH T2C, especially in groups without a cappy, LM or warden.
Last edited by Nascephor; Jun 22 2013 at 09:56 PM.
Nice time however. I wish my kinmates would log in more often so that we could give it a try with my champ alt !
There is absolutely no kiting whatsoever: I do not understand why kiting is needed when 2 good Champions can mow adds down at warp speed.
As for bosses, I Challenge the first boss, Lancel/Unsin (Delwood's main Champion) Challenge the second boss, and I Challenge the last boss and always keep him turned away from the group.
But maybe Lancel or Delwood can.
Even this Warden--a 5th alt or so that just leveled to 85 and mostly with 75 gear--didn't need to kite when me and Unsin did it with him:
Last edited by Miretocot; Jun 24 2013 at 11:04 AM.
First, we've kinda stopped doing it with my Captain, because I am even newb-er than either Lancel or Unsin's Captain.
Second, with Unsin's Captain, the issue isn't as much skill as gear/Traits. When we did this, he had just leveled his Captain, and his Virtues were 3-4s, and he had very little survivability. And what foiled these runs were primarily that he kept dying when we tried to do this in 2 minutes (we had at least two tries where we were on a faster pace than the screenshot-ted successful try but Unsin's Captain died). If he had maxed Virtues and better gear, he might have lived. I also don't know if he Traited Last Stand duration, and if he didn't--that would have been critical as well.
But I think Lancel's "pug with good players" is a bit misleading in at least two respects here for those trying this at home. On the one hand, Lancel and I are almost certainly the top two DPS Champions on the server (and I'd add that he's the best PvE Champion by a considerable margin); on the other hand, Lancel, me, and Unsin have played together a lot of 3-6 mans, even though we are not from the same kin/Alliance. So we kind of do know what each other's tendencies are, etc.
While I don't have any screenshots saved from when we were spam running this for burg and champ boots, Shapzzy (Champ), Dalfast (Burg) and I (Laeten, Captain) on Brandywine ran this at least 40-50 times, our usual finish after we had been doing it for a while was somewhere around 2:25, with our absolute best somewhere in the 2:10 to 2:15 range. Basic strategy was:
Champ aoe at morrovails to start with burg focusing morrovail adds down, as soon as both sets of morrovail are dead, group moves to the morrovail boss with both burg and champ focusing single target, it should die in 20-30 seconds. Our burg also cj'd to interrupt the bat spawn, which slows down his dps a little but made the run pretty much impossible for anyone to die. After the morrovail dies we continue to aoe the mobs, as capt I ran out to any range ones staying away from the group. Move over to fire boss when he spawns and he's just a fast burn. The troll was the only real wildcard in terms of how long the run would take us. If the timing worked out perfectly, he'd spawn right as we finished killing the fire guy or immediately before. About half the time we'd drop combat after the fire guy and have to wait 5ish seconds (burg always complained about losing his dev buff!) before he'd come out. Good burns we'd drop him before he went to the middle even once, bad burns we wouldn't. I didn't even trait oathies, which probably could've bought us a couple seconds, but since the runs were so fast I couldn't reliably have it up for every run anyways, and the shorter CD on VS and extra healing with HoH was more valuable.
Did my fair share of this farming runs back in the day also. avg 5 minutes (or something close to that) with a tank and everything. EDIT: Fastest Swordhalls T2c: To Fellowship (2m 53.3s); (guard, champ, cappy) in the old days.
Day was when you needed an actual tank to finish any of the clusters runs, but then i heard the damage was bugged and that's why you needed a tank. Who is a tank? (incase you just joined lotro in RoR times.) Tank is a person who can't dps and also does not give you any buffs. So it must be a good friend you take a long just for lolz.
Noa all SG, WP, SH, and DDG are just speed(r/f)uns. BG feels like a skirm for geard people.
Last edited by arghh; Jun 27 2013 at 07:57 AM.
But prima facie, I had a very difficult time believing that a Champion/Burglar/Captain group can be faster than a Champion/Champion/Captain group. If you isolate the different variables only here, then it comes down to Burglar v. a Champion. And in that context, A Burglar cannot AoE effectively and a Burglar's single-target DPS is not greater than that of a Champion, so I don't really see where the time is saved. Now, I am not comparing your runs with my run with Lancel and Delwood, because our time would have been faster than yours likely if Delwood didn't forget to OB earlier. But the problem is that both Lancel and I were Ardour Traited then, and whenever we had a Champion Fervour Trait, the times were noticeably slower.
But I will reserve my final judgment until I run it with a good Burglar and see for myself after following the strategy you describe.
I'd absolutely take a burg over a 2nd champ, especially another ardour champ. The difference is in our strategies. Your idea is to blender everything constantly, our idea is to get each boss out as quickly as possible while only ever having one boss out. All of the trash mobs are very weak and easily killed by the few blade walls/raging blades the champ throws in while we're killing the bosses. The burg adds an additional 10% incoming, plus 6% incoming crit, on top of doing insane single target DPS himself. Not to mention I was constantly using the 10% incoming damage debuff from the moors set. I tried oathies a few times but like I said, the duration of the runs was too short and the oathies just didn't make a big difference.
You can try out our strategy, but just bear in mind that simply because it fails does not mean I've lied, I most certainly haven't :P Shapzzy is the champ who solo tanked the adds for us in BFE t2c with only a single hunter helping him kill, which is my way of attempting to say he's extremely good. Dalfast macro swaps for every surprise strike and does as much DPS as any burg can I'm sure. I was probably the weakest link as my captain had no 1st age 2 hander.
If you get a good burg with a good champ, and a capt using the right gear, you should be able to kill the fire boss in around 15-20 seconds. That would be a good barometer for seeing how your group would compare to ours. The few times I did use oathies, we could kill it within the duration.
I have picked a burg and another cappy ( 1 healing 1 dpsing) for some t2c fun. not sure if the burg did things right or not ( most likely not) but truth is the bosses can be FMed. And when the burg manages to FM the Morroval boss before the first bats summons things are a breeze. Even in the runs without the sucessefull Fm things went smooth because burgs to not generate much aggro from adds. I am confident that a champ+cappy+burg can run SH T2C well.
My T2C skills have improved to the point that when not lagging i feel that i can lead any group formation to victory.
Sample skill rotation to clear SH T2C:
-Traited Last Stand
=all adds down, fire boss dead, morroval boss without bats, cappy has all aggro
As i said, traiting LS works great for time record runs, but at 10 min cooldown is not reliable for farming, still, as long as i have a traited LS, i can lead any SH group to victory in T2C ( 2x non-warspeech minstrels not withstanding)
I will run further test to confirm that forcing fire boss coming out first is better or not than forcing batwoman boss first. With 2 champs i know that killing fire boss first makes things easier and faster, lets see if that holds true for other group setups with a cappy + any 2.
Truth is more important than doing SH T2C in 2m35s or 2m14s is to run the instance in a reliable way that does not depend on a long cool-down skill like last stand ( or the burg's FM)
At any rate, I will try to find an appropriate Burglar to do this, but here's the problem: If Dalfast is indeed as good a DPS Burglar "as any," then he should be doing at least 4k-plus on 75 dummies, and I do not think there are any Burglars like that on my server. At the least, a Burglar who can compete with the top DPS Burglars in LotRO will need to have Greater Erebor set, macro-swap to Unseen for Surprise Strike, and doesn't have a Morale-hogging build. And again, I do not know anyone that fits this description on my server; I know a few monster DPS Hunters (Farasilion for instance, does as much as any Hunter I've seen, and did 2500 with a Second Ager and no consumables whatsoever at 75 [!!!]); and one Champion who comes close to hanging with me on single-target and does on par on AoE DPS (Lancel), but simply no Burglar. I'd be surprised if anyone can even do 3500, to be honest as a Burglar.
And obviously I can't replicate myself to servers where there are these 4k-plus Burglars, so I don't know if it's possible to say what method is faster definitively.
As for Shapzzy's solo-tanking BfE Reinforcements, yes, I've seen it--along with Kunidana's duplication of the same feat--and it is indeed impressive. I am pretty sure I cannot do that, though we are talking about different skill sets there than what is required for Sword Hall Challenge.
Ran through 4 times today with champ (me), tanking captain and waterlore LM. Had a minor hiccup on the first run, but the rest was smooth. We were not as fast are some other groups in here (I have a lot of 75 gear still and 75 SA weapon).
Did a few the other day. Best one came out at 2:15 though I think it could be brought down to under 2min as our Cappy was a sword n board alt. An experienced red traited 2h cappy could definitely shave 20-30 sec off of that.
tried this a few times the other day and decided to make a video of it. I used to love the ride up to do SG or SH through DG. some of the views up there are amazing, and DG itself looks amazing. I sure miss the days of riding to location to run instances sometimes.
Our best time out of like 7 tries was 2 min 23 sec.
Nice video and good execution, you do it in 2 min and 37 second, but I can see you didn’t use CB. I know with CB you can lower to 2 min 23 seconds and maybe more. I have not returned to try it since I did it with Miretocot and Delwood (2 min 36 sec), now I am in pvp, and there are no people in my server for good pve. I want to return to SH and to go down my time near 2:00 min (maybe after summer)
Very good idea that of the burglar (Ellery01 tactic seems good) but I continue thinking that two champions and a captain they are the best combination for this challenge, but give me screenshots with others combinations for 3 mans.
I like see more videos or screenshots for this challenge.
I've been running this quite a bit recently to power level some kinnies but haven't ran it as a small fellowship since I got my boots.
So far my fastest with Champ + DPS traited Captain is 3m01s, LM was only there for the experience (you can see the level 85 ding in chat) and was only providing SI to the captain. You can tank both Durkar and Urcheron whilst in CBR no problemo, a LM that actually dpses and debuffs would make this much faster.
Last edited by Zelol; Aug 11 2013 at 07:30 PM.
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